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In most situations I would agree with the idea that the Wulfen will be great but in this situation I don't think so. Foot slogging infantry are overpriced, especially if they don't shoot and I don't see GW lowering the cost of Wulfen enough to where they would be viable. They would have to have fleet, probably a 3+ armor save, 2 wounds, and be able to attach a cheap Wolf Priest to give the unit 5+ FnP all at a cost of less than 20 points. I mean otherwise what's the point? You can get bikes now for around 20, they move fast, have a higher toughness and can turbo boost to take objectives. I don't see GW having the 13th company have access to drop pods and rhinos etc. Now maybe they can deep strike in, but I doubt it. Now, the list as a whole might be decent, but I just don't think Wulfen will be in the same category as Centurions (and honestly they wouldnt be that good if it werent for Grav guns).

Aside from the goofiness of the poses, one of the things I am most disappointed with in these as models is that they seem like they will be largely incompatible with the huge range of SM and CSM plastics. They don't even look the same size (though I could be wrong).

One of my biggest hesitations about the original Wulfen was that the background has them pillaging the armor and wargear of their foes to continue their fight. A plastic kit that allowed you to freely mix Space Marine armor and bits with CSM armor and bits would have been amazing, and would have allowed hobbyists to mix the Wulfen box with all their Space Wolf kits. That's not clearly impossible with this (given ONE PIC), but it doesn't look very likely.

sturguard wrote:
In most situations I would agree with the idea that the Wulfen will be great but in this situation I don't think so. Foot slogging infantry are overpriced, especially if they don't shoot and I don't see GW lowering the cost of Wulfen enough to where they would be viable. They would have to have fleet, probably a 3+ armor save, 2 wounds, and be able to attach a cheap Wolf Priest to give the unit 5+ FnP all at a cost of less than 20 points. I mean otherwise what's the point? You can get bikes now for around 20, they move fast, have a higher toughness and can turbo boost to take objectives. I don't see GW having the 13th company have access to drop pods and rhinos etc. Now maybe they can deep strike in, but I doubt it. Now, the list as a whole might be decent, but I just don't think Wulfen will be in the same category as Centurions (and honestly they wouldnt be that good if it werent for Grav guns).

I would love some fluffy excuse for them to have deepstrike, and be able to assault from deepstrike (and then maybe return to reserves the following turn?). If pointed appropriately they could be really fun with rules like that. Plus it would give me hope that one day Genestealers could work the same way and finally function the way they would need to, to not be hot garbage.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

sturguard wrote:
In most situations I would agree with the idea that the Wulfen will be great but in this situation I don't think so. Foot slogging infantry are overpriced, especially if they don't shoot and I don't see GW lowering the cost of Wulfen enough to where they would be viable. They would have to have fleet, probably a 3+ armor save, 2 wounds, and be able to attach a cheap Wolf Priest to give the unit 5+ FnP all at a cost of less than 20 points. I mean otherwise what's the point? You can get bikes now for around 20, they move fast, have a higher toughness and can turbo boost to take objectives. I don't see GW having the 13th company have access to drop pods and rhinos etc. Now maybe they can deep strike in, but I doubt it. Now, the list as a whole might be decent, but I just don't think Wulfen will be in the same category as Centurions (and honestly they wouldnt be that good if it werent for Grav guns).

I would love some fluffy excuse for them to have deepstrike, and be able to assault from deepstrike (and then maybe return to reserves the following turn?). If pointed appropriately they could be really fun with rules like that. Plus it would give me hope that one day Genestealers could work the same way and finally function the way they would need to, to not be hot garbage.

Rune Priests, maybe?

I believe it was explained in some older fluff that the RPs actually are more prevalent with the 13th and those RP help navigate the warp.

So, as long as they have a RP in their unit they can deepstrike?

Da Butcha wrote:
Aside from the goofiness of the poses, one of the things I am most disappointed with in these as models is that they seem like they will be largely incompatible with the huge range of SM and CSM plastics. They don't even look the same size (though I could be wrong).

One of my biggest hesitations about the original Wulfen was that the background has them pillaging the armor and wargear of their foes to continue their fight. A plastic kit that allowed you to freely mix Space Marine armor and bits with CSM armor and bits would have been amazing, and would have allowed hobbyists to mix the Wulfen box with all their Space Wolf kits. That's not clearly impossible with this (given ONE PIC), but it doesn't look very likely.

That is definitely something that we will have to wait and see on, but definitely a pass on these if they don't work well with other SW or SM kits. I don't really expect them to be compatible with the CSM kits due to none of the newer SM kits (from 2013 onward) being compatible with them either.

Da Butcha wrote:
Aside from the goofiness of the poses, one of the things I am most disappointed with in these as models is that they seem like they will be largely incompatible with the huge range of SM and CSM plastics. They don't even look the same size (though I could be wrong).

One of my biggest hesitations about the original Wulfen was that the background has them pillaging the armor and wargear of their foes to continue their fight. A plastic kit that allowed you to freely mix Space Marine armor and bits with CSM armor and bits would have been amazing, and would have allowed hobbyists to mix the Wulfen box with all their Space Wolf kits. That's not clearly impossible with this (given ONE PIC), but it doesn't look very likely.

The Wulfen weren't described as pillaging the armor and wargear of their foes; that was something general to the 13th Company.
The exact quote is:

Lost in the Eye of Terror for ten millenia, the Space Wolves 13th Company wear pre-Heresy Space Wolves colours. During countless centuries separated from their homeworld, these mighty warriors have been forced to repair battle damage with armour torn from the bodies of their fallen foes.

It's kinda interesting to note that the Wulfen models actually had one that was bare-armed and quite a few of them had just the vambraces and pauldrons from the armor for their arms.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Wulfen weren't described as pillaging the armor and wargear of their foes; that was something general to the 13th Company.
The exact quote is:

Lost in the Eye of Terror for ten millenia, the Space Wolves 13th Company wear pre-Heresy Space Wolves colours. During countless centuries separated from their homeworld, these mighty warriors have been forced to repair battle damage with armour torn from the bodies of their fallen foes.

It's kinda interesting to note that the Wulfen models actually had one that was bare-armed and quite a few of them had just the vambraces and pauldrons from the armor for their arms.

Im guessing wulfen will get WS5 BS1 Wolf guard stats with d3+1 attacks rending and outflank

But I think the models are cool, just afraid they come in a highly individualized 5-man pack with the rules to have 20 per unit so that you have 4 of those centerpiece guys which would look awful.

 ProtoClone wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

sturguard wrote:
In most situations I would agree with the idea that the Wulfen will be great but in this situation I don't think so. Foot slogging infantry are overpriced, especially if they don't shoot and I don't see GW lowering the cost of Wulfen enough to where they would be viable. They would have to have fleet, probably a 3+ armor save, 2 wounds, and be able to attach a cheap Wolf Priest to give the unit 5+ FnP all at a cost of less than 20 points. I mean otherwise what's the point? You can get bikes now for around 20, they move fast, have a higher toughness and can turbo boost to take objectives. I don't see GW having the 13th company have access to drop pods and rhinos etc. Now maybe they can deep strike in, but I doubt it. Now, the list as a whole might be decent, but I just don't think Wulfen will be in the same category as Centurions (and honestly they wouldnt be that good if it werent for Grav guns).

I would love some fluffy excuse for them to have deepstrike, and be able to assault from deepstrike (and then maybe return to reserves the following turn?). If pointed appropriately they could be really fun with rules like that. Plus it would give me hope that one day Genestealers could work the same way and finally function the way they would need to, to not be hot garbage.

Rune Priests, maybe?

I believe it was explained in some older fluff that the RPs actually are more prevalent with the 13th and those RP help navigate the warp.

So, as long as they have a RP in their unit they can deepstrike?

Rune Priest originally had a psychic power call Gate which would allow them to be removed from play then deepstrike- much like the current Santic spell. However, there are too many problems with that- 1. With level 2 rune priests you wont generate many dice and can certainly fail your roll, you could also have your spells blocked by armies like Eldar/Daemons, so then you are stuck running across the board again with expensive models that are one pie plate from dying. I dont think they will do the deep strike rule for them as that would make them too close to like deep striking bloodletters.

When the original 13th company list was around, no one took big squads of wulfen, they were very expensive, and died just as easy as normal marines, and shooting is even worse now than it was back then, bikes were far better and would be in todays game, unless of course they made wulfen 13-14 pts, that might be cheap enough for them to run across the board.

Gamesworkshop's model design in the past two years is just so... lazy.. nothing interests me anymore. Anything new at least. I miss the flavor and character and love put into a hand sculpted model. Their details are so undefined, geometrical, and rigid now.

Part of the reason I only buy from forgeworld for my horus heresy armies now. And the occasional dark eldar purchase.(my only 40k army)

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Gamesworkshop's model design in the past two years is just so... lazy.. nothing interests me anymore. Anything new at least. I miss the flavor and character and love put into a hand sculpted model. Their details are so undefined, geometrical, and rigid now.

Part of the reason I only buy from forgeworld for my horus heresy armies now. And the occasional dark eldar purchase.(my only 40k army)

I dunno, the Blood Angels Terminators and Tactical Squad are both very nice and we'll detailed kits. Same goes for the new Devastator and Assault Marine kits. I like the new Interrogator-Chaplain. The new Eldar kits and Tau kits are quite nice as well. The release with The most failings to me was the new Archon kit for DE. Looks terrible.

To each their own, I guess.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Gamesworkshop's model design in the past two years is just so... lazy.. nothing interests me anymore. Anything new at least. I miss the flavor and character and love put into a hand sculpted model. Their details are so undefined, geometrical, and rigid now.

Part of the reason I only buy from forgeworld for my horus heresy armies now. And the occasional dark eldar purchase.(my only 40k army)

I dunno, the Blood Angels Terminators and Tactical Squad are both very nice and we'll detailed kits. Same goes for the new Devastator and Assault Marine kits. I like the new Interrogator-Chaplain. The new Eldar kits and Tau kits are quite nice as well. The release with The most failings to me was the new Archon kit for DE. Looks terrible.

To each their own, I guess.

Assault and Dev squads and BA tac squads were all great (though it gave Grav guns to the BA, a mistake IMO )
BA Terminators were far less flexable, with the heads merged to the chest plates and legs merged to the body making them more mono-pose. The Wolf Guard terminators and Deathwing box were much better done. They rteally should have given the BA terminators the third sprue to make tac terminators as well, and split out the merged parts.

Agree on Eldar and Tau kits, though the Eldar JEtbikes were probably designed 8 years ago, so were designed to be sold as singles and include the extra gun options. Then they sold them as a three pack so the rules gusys made the mistake of letting you take heavy weapons on every single bike. Would have been much better to have been made a 3-pack to start like Ork bikes or DE bikes. Could have made more efficient use of space and put a warlock or shioning spear parts on there as well.

The Archon and Succubus are great models with minor flaws- The Archon arms are badly posed, but that is an easy fix. The pose is great with a different set of arms, and perfect for an Archon with a blaster (why are Archons really the only HQ to be able to carry special weapons?)
Succubus is a great pose, but let down by the terrible rules for CC weapons and wych cult in general.

Mechanicus kits are good- Skitarii and Kataphractii and Magos are great, while the Kastellan robots are an acquired taste (I like them, they look more like DAoT robots, with the FW Castellax as more modern gothic recreations) and the Electro Priests merely OK.

The original Wulfen are a bit cartoony-wolf man, but are positively restrained compared to these new ones, and the entire direction of the newer Space Wolf models like the Draednought, Thunderwolves, bling on the Storm Wolf, and Grimnar's chariot.

Why is giving BA Grav a mistake? All of the chapters besides Space Wolves have it? And Space Wolves have Helfrost instead. Grav and Helfrost are the marines hard counter to MC and GC. What would BA have had instead?

Aww... I was hoping for more photos :(

Also, could we save the rules discussion for elsewhere, and continue to discuss the release instead? This is a N&R discussion is it not?

I would personally convert 13th company from forge world's mkv armour. Would make more sense fluff wise.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why is giving BA Grav a mistake? All of the chapters besides Space Wolves have it? And Space Wolves have Helfrost instead. Grav and Helfrost are the marines hard counter to MC and GC. What would BA have had instead?

Because some people wish Grav didn't exist for all the other chapters either

Why do I have the sinking feeling that these kits are monopose?

Strange to have a white dwarf cover pic so long before the rest of the pics are leaked.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why do I have the sinking feeling that these kits are monopose?

cause like the rest you can't give the blurry cover a break

I always thought these would make good Wulfen heads. I always intended to mix the standard wolf armour with chaos armour pieces and then these for heads on some:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=7

With maybe these for arms:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=64

And for lightning claws:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=295

WholeHazelNuts wrote:
I always thought these would make good Wulfen heads. I always intended to mix the standard wolf armour with chaos armour pieces and then these for heads on some:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=7

With maybe these for arms:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=64

And for lightning claws:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=295

I thought the same, they aren't very good. The arms are too skinny in proportion to marine like standards (almost scarecrowish) and the heads while looking very cool on their site, just didnt do it for me. I put them on a few models, then ended up, popping them off and putting regular space wolf heads, I think it was the snout wasnt long enough.

 aracersss wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why do I have the sinking feeling that these kits are monopose?

cause like the rest you can't give the blurry cover a break

No, the way Daniel-san, Son of Murderfang, is posed just doesn't lead me to think he will have much variability. Maybe he will have different weapons, but there isn't much one could change about that figure without making it look funny. The jumping legs don't lend themselves to other poses. It would be like putting the new Assault Marine legs on a Lascannon Devastator.

WholeHazelNuts wrote:
I always thought these would make good Wulfen heads. I always intended to mix the standard wolf armour with chaos armour pieces and then these for heads on some:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=7

With maybe these for arms:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=64

And for lightning claws:
http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=295

I go with the Mantic Werewolves and some Marine/Terminator legs, for the 13th 10k old beast like wulfen, and keep the old metal ones as M41 wulfen
something like this
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E6M8YtajFIs/VbUHceDrjQI/AAAAAAAAAak/JWWuDKQZ6o0/s1600/image.jpg

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why do I have the sinking feeling that these kits are monopose?

cause like the rest you can't give the blurry cover a break

No, the way Daniel-san, Son of Murderfang, is posed just doesn't lead me to think he will have much variability. Maybe he will have different weapons, but there isn't much one could change about that figure without making it look funny. The jumping legs don't lend themselves to other poses. It would be like putting the new Assault Marine legs on a Lascannon Devastator.

Plus, 'dynamic' (to put it charitable) mono-poses with weapon swaps seems to be GW's recent trend.

I'm expecting monopse for these as well.

 Zywus wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why do I have the sinking feeling that these kits are monopose?

cause like the rest you can't give the blurry cover a break

No, the way Daniel-san, Son of Murderfang, is posed just doesn't lead me to think he will have much variability. Maybe he will have different weapons, but there isn't much one could change about that figure without making it look funny. The jumping legs don't lend themselves to other poses. It would be like putting the new Assault Marine legs on a Lascannon Devastator.

Plus, 'dynamic' (to put it charitable) mono-poses with weapon swaps seems to be GW's recent trend.

I'm expecting monopse for these as well.

One can hope against all hope that Daniel-san there is a sort of special wulfen lone wolf character, as it seems that the other models seem somewhat interchangeable.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Strange to have a white dwarf cover pic so long before the rest of the pics are leaked.

\
It's happened only a few times. Early ETimes, AoS at least once w/Chaos, and there are more my sleep-deprived brain can't conjure at the moment. I DO hope very much that a much better quality leak comes out soon. I mean, hey, it's a bonus to get even this leak but from this pic...we definitely needs to see these in-hand.

can run and charge, models killed in close combat can still attack that turn, re-roll faild charges
feel no pain,

options:
grenade launcher, two handed frost axe, 2 frost claws, hammer+shield, pack leader with 2 claws, stormwolf transporter

I at least commend GW for giving them a 4+ save.

It would be too much to have a 3+ from nothing more than a pair of power-armour shorts and lots of hair.

If only they'd have done the same with Eldar jetbikes, they would have been a lot more interesting unit.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Strange to have a white dwarf cover pic so long before the rest of the pics are leaked.

Since White Dwarf is in a plastic baggy, prior to the copies getting into the hands of retailers we tend to just get cover photos.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why is giving BA Grav a mistake? All of the chapters besides Space Wolves have it? And Space Wolves have Helfrost instead. Grav and Helfrost are the marines hard counter to MC and GC. What would BA have had instead?

Bloodshard cannons that shoot like nanobots that infect the blood of the target then like use grav stuff to be heavy too or something... just needs blood in its name.



Also I'm not really fond of these new wardancers/harlequin space wolves.


But maybe he just really wants to show off those frostwolf wolf ice claws he has.