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 matphat wrote:
I played my last game of 7th about two weeks ago. I'm going to spend my hobby time finishing up the remainder of my Orks, and putting polish on both my Orks and my 1500 points of Iron Warriors, and then I'm going to box up both finished armies and chill till either A.) A new Ork or CSM Codex appears that is deemed actually fun (If not at least mid tier) or 8th drops and is neither AoS, and is better over all than 7th had been to me.

It's an easy choice at this point.

Why look forward to new edition when there's better editions behind? Feels kinda shame to box your armies. Put them to better use playing edition that's more fun

 matphat wrote:
Haven't Orks been low to mid tier since 4th? Why does anyone expect Orks to get better when they've been pretty bad for 10+ years?

As a fairly new player, and a dedicated Ork player, I have never expected anything more.

My thoughts too, honestly. I understand that nob bikers were once good due to 5th ed wound allocation silliness - though they could still be instakilled by str8 weapons, so I don't understand why 6th was a 'nerf' for them. It seems to me that I'd rather have true T5 than wound allocation tricks.

But anyways, yes, orks aren't good, haven't been for some time, and anyone who expected that to change dramatically from this supplement probably hasn't been paying attention. But the new supplement has new ways to play, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I'm very happy the Grukk model came back. Was kinda disappointed when it disappeared as limited edition. Might have to pick him up soon.

I'm going to go through my collection and eBay some of the older stuff I have that doesn't match my current painting standards. Since 5th Edition, I've only played them a handful of times, and their rules have been consistently disappointing.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 matphat wrote:
Haven't Orks been low to mid tier since 4th? Why does anyone expect Orks to get better when they've been pretty bad for 10+ years?

As a fairly new player, and a dedicated Ork player, I have never expected anything more.

My thoughts too, honestly. I understand that nob bikers were once good due to 5th ed wound allocation silliness - though they could still be instakilled by str8 weapons, so I don't understand why 6th was a 'nerf' for them. It seems to me that I'd rather have true T5 than wound allocation tricks.

But anyways, yes, orks aren't good, haven't been for some time, and anyone who expected that to change dramatically from this supplement probably hasn't been paying attention. But the new supplement has new ways to play, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

No, I didn't expect them to suddenly turn good. I expected actual content -like Tau, Space Wolves, or even Astra Militarum got- not a hasty copy/paste job that mashes together some old, barely-playable formations without rhyme or reason..

Has anyone got links to pictures of the old formations from the new book? i have heard people complaining that some of them are the same even though the rules are now redundant but i have been looking everywhere to find images of them. The main two that i cannot find rules for anywhere are the waaagh band and the goff killmob. The waagh band had the same rules as the orkurion (orkurions version is better actually) but i have only heard complaining about them not changing (which would be silly at best) but have not seen anything to back this up other then complaining and i cannot find the old goff kill mob anywhere, the closest i can find for this one is grukks rippin krew, and if it has the rules from that then it would be quite fun.

Yes the orkurion is better but it completely overrides the core's individual bonus rules, which is utter bs.
Hunter Contingent doesnt prevent its Core from having 12" supporting fire or run + shoot/shoot + run within 12" of a commander or cadre, but they also get the big formation rules. Why is ours literally a slightly better version of the core?

And i have the old book. The only formation changes have been mentioned multiple times, all of which are completely minor/pointless (Rage on krushin' krew...who the hell takes them anyway and the Gorkanaut already has Rage. S10 Rams on Blitz Brigade is "neat" since they normally ram on S8 right now, thats new)

geargutz wrote:
Thanks for writing into with your concerns for the Ork faction design and direction. While Customer Service is not in a position to offer insight into the creative process (we're not involved in the rules writing process), we can send your comments to the appropriate parties (Design Studio and Publications Team) for review. Do you have any particular recommendations you would like to offer for Orks (rules, miniatures, etc.)?

We hope to hear from you soon.

Jus got this reply to my email of complaint to gw. I know they usually say they'll send the email to the right people, but do they usually ask for a customers own opinions like this? Is this a common thing or is this an opportunity? Is gw actually interested in my sugestions?

Edited...don't know how to use the quote thing yet so I quoted the wrong text

I am totally sure that the people from gw will send your mail to the place where they thinkt it belongs (recycle bin). GW does no researches about what their customers want. GW knows best what their customers want. So i think they sent such a mail as reply and forger the case.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes the orkurion is better but it completely overrides the core's individual bonus rules, which is utter bs.
Hunter Contingent doesnt prevent its Core from having 12" supporting fire or run + shoot/shoot + run within 12" of a commander or cadre, but they also get the big formation rules. Why is ours literally a slightly better version of the core?

And i have the old book. The only formation changes have been mentioned multiple times, all of which are completely minor/pointless (Rage on krushin' krew...who the hell takes them anyway and the Gorkanaut already has Rage. S10 Rams on Blitz Brigade is "neat" since they normally ram on S8 right now, thats new)

Gorkanauts have Rampage, not Rage currently. But I ain't arguing with 'who the hell takes them'

Well, at least Rage is better than Furious Charge..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

geargutz wrote:

Just got this reply to my email of complaint to gw. I know they usually say they'll send the email to the right people, but do they usually ask for a customers own opinions like this? Is this a common thing or is this an opportunity? Is gw actually interested in my sugestions?

Edited...don't know how to use the quote thing yet so I quoted the wrong text

Thanks for writing into with your concerns for the Ork faction design and direction. While Customer Service is not in a position to offer insight into the creative process (we're not involved in the rules writing process), we can send your comments to the appropriate parties (Design Studio and Publications Team) for review. Do you have any particular recommendations you would like to offer for Orks (rules, miniatures, etc.)?

We hope to hear from you soon.

Fixed I've sent and received a reply like that, it's earlier in this thread.

I saw this image on Black Library,

and I'm curious what this page is? Fluff?

Also curious about the mention in the bottom right of the "Big Mek Stompa". Is that unit included in the v2.0 Waaagh! Ghazghkull?

It's fluff. Found exact page, page number, images everything in my hardback of the original book.

Big Mek Stompa isn't inside the original book, doubt it's in this book.

 Cleatus wrote:
I saw this image on Black Library,

Spoiler:

and I'm curious what this page is? Fluff?

Also curious about the mention in the bottom right of the "Big Mek Stompa". Is that unit included in the v2.0 Waaagh! Ghazghkull?

It's a fluff page to help "inspire" different ghaz armies. The page is almost identical to its original, and the big mek stompa was originally there....just still not something that can be taken in gw only armies...gonna have to work with FW for that bm stompa.

tneva82 wrote:

 matphat wrote:
I played my last game of 7th about two weeks ago. I'm going to spend my hobby time finishing up the remainder of my Orks, and putting polish on both my Orks and my 1500 points of Iron Warriors, and then I'm going to box up both finished armies and chill till either A.) A new Ork or CSM Codex appears that is deemed actually fun (If not at least mid tier) or 8th drops and is neither AoS, and is better over all than 7th had been to me.

It's an easy choice at this point.

Why look forward to new edition when there's better editions behind? Feels kinda shame to box your armies. Put them to better use playing edition that's more fun

I would love that. I actually suggested it to two different groups here and no one is interested. I'd play 5th, with some modified rules, for ever if given the chance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, honestly right now the only fun I have on the table is when someone who also has a gak army plays with me. The tourney guys, the local FotM guys, and even the casual guys who happen to run the "good" armies make it damn hard to enjoy.

I was wondering - the title of this thread is 'orks and tau', but it seems like the last 15 pages or so have been dedicated to the ork side of things. And not without reason, there's quite a bit of new information.

But are tau getting anything noteworthy - or anything at all?

 r_squared wrote:
...Even if Ghaz gets hit in the face with a D deathblow, he will only take 1 wound thanks to eternal warrior, and if the painboy is still allive, he'll get 5+ FNP.
Plus all troops have Obj Sec thanks to the CAD.

That's not how either of those work.

If Ghaz gets a Deathblow! allocated to him, he can either attempt to LOS! on a 2+ or take 6 wounds with no saves of any kind and FNP doesn't work against Destroyer weapons, so it's effectively curtains for him if he fails his LOS! roll. Rolls of a 2-5 on the D-Chart still allow you your 2++ however.

Eternal warrior just stops him from being doubled out by Str 10, counts as str 10 destroyer weapons (which are all of them except for Eldar D-Scythes) or weapons with instant death (such as force weapons), in which case he'll just take a single wound instead. It aso doesn't function against things like remove from play (such as stomps from a GMC or Superheavy)

Also, not all troops get ObSec just because you took a CAD, only the troops from the CAD get ObSec, the troops from the formation do not have ObSec listed in their command benefits, and as such, do not get ObSec.

Question - to anyone who has the digital version of the book -

Does the new book at least have some new fluff - specifically on the Waaagh of Ghazghkull - with specific story progression, or is it literally all copypaste from the previous supplement?

 JimOnMars wrote:
I've done my part, calling the U.S. Tech support line. I asked him if GreenTide had been deleted in the book...he didn't know. He offered to email England and ask them, and he will be calling me back in the morning.

I suggest that we all call the line: 1-800-394-4263. Those in the UK, you might have better luck as you can call direct.

Got a reply. The poor U.S. clerk had no idea what was in the book, and had to report to me the bad news about Green Tide's deletion.

To his credit, he couldn't understand why such an "iconic formation" (his words) was deleted. I made him sweat a bit, asked him if the tide would show up in WD (of course he didn't know) and let him know GW lost a $32 sale.

I suspect he will pass that on, but I don't think GW cares about actual sales, oddly enough.

I really do suggest we each call him. Maybe The tide will show up in WD as an option to the crapcurion.

Hmm waaagh!-band (page 63) for the formation...

I hope this doesn't have the green tide restrictions of no trukks, I'd love to know what the restrictions and benefits of the formation itself are.

drorain wrote:
Hmm waaagh!-band (page 63) for the formation...

I hope this doesn't have the green tide restrictions of no trukks, I'd love to know what the restrictions and benefits of the formation itself are.

It's the ork Warband formation in the ork codex. Exactly that formation, so it grants no extra bonuses to the orkurian.

its not even a $32 sale they lost. If the rules are so bad people dont even want to experiment, theyre going to lose several hundred if not thousands from a single person in sales because they wont buy models.

I want nauts. I like the models a lot and thats the main selling point to me, but they also have to actually DO something. Im not bringing a ~250-300pt eye-candy that literally does nothing but look cool. I bring Hammerheads in my tau because i love that gun, and even though Hammerheads arent that amazing at least they can do something now than then. Hell, even become the MVP of my army some games which is really odd to say.
Flipside i dont want nauts to be supers. Super-eske yes, not supers. If they became full fledge supers, we'd be limited to 1 unless we play big games and they are not strong enough even with super rules to justify only 1. Better movement and superheavy damage chart perks....all i flippin ask for.

Call them. Let them know.

1-800-394-4263

I agree. These Formations dont make me want to buy more Orks. My own Orkurion does, but thats cuz i've got rules that do interesting things, like Scouting Warbikes that lead Trukks around. If they had something like that, i would actually buy Warbikers and run Trukk boyz. But they didnt, and thats what makes me sad. Because even our good formations dont have any really interesting rules like the Ravenguard or White Scars formations. Hell the Imp Guard formations in the same book are at least fun!

Nope we get "Take a bunch of stuff you dont want for meh rules" Ya GW lost out on possibly a lot of Warbikers and Walkers from me.

You know what confuses me, how most people think this orkurian is fluffy. That ghaz is nothin but goff. Ghaz is renowned for synergizing the benefits of all clans. He didn't do the most damage to both armegeddon and octarious through huge waves of boys, he used tactics and different units.
If anything the ghazcurIan should be the most flexible ork fighting force there is. But no, gw wants ghaz to be goff through and through.

Exactly. This is all Goff based.
And i never liked playing the "don't hink, just charge" Goff way.

That's why my 1st edition Ork army was a Waaagh Orlk army with all clans (and Bad Moon Warboss).
And the Clan armies are Death Skullz, Evil Sunz, Bad Moon and Blood Axes.

And i am planning a Snakebitez detachment based on my WHFB Orks (which will not be of much use anymore because of AoS ;-).

I do have a detachment of Goff (the 2nd edition metal and plastic Goff models), but that's just a few units.

Even if i have not played Orks for a long time, they are still my favourite army creatively speaking.

If you are only in this hobby for winning games, then you will probably quit at some point anyway. Orks are still fun and in friendly games Orks can still be fun.

Does any one have a screen shot of were it says ALL the formations have the Da boss is watching and Biggest and da best.

I noticed that the rules are listed on the actual formation, but not all of them ,i.e kill mob, warband, flashgitz don't have those rules under special rules.

So unless im missing some obscure rule , I don't think all for formation have those rules unless taken in the decurion.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Does any one have a screen shot of were it says ALL the formations have the Da boss is watching and Biggest and da best.

I noticed that the rules are listed on the actual formation, but not all of them ,i.e kill mob, warband, flashgitz don't have those rules under special rules.

So unless im missing some obscure rule , I don't think all for formation have those rules unless taken in the decurion.

The way it works, at least in the exiting W!G book, is that all formations (and the great waaagh detachment, which may or may not exist anymore), auto-included the Da boss is watching / Biggest and da best.

Then again, I think you may have a point - in the old W!G book, those two rules may have been listed in the formation description. I don't recall.

But at any rate, I'm 99% sure that those two rules apply to all formations in the old W!G book, so I assume they do in the new one, Decurion or no. But I might be wrong - hope I am, as that would make some of those formations actually fieldable.

In the old book they are listed under special rules on the formations.

I hope so as well, if some of the formation don't have it they are kind of usable, but if they all have it, it makes the book more worthless.

As of now though, the kill mob, flash gitz and warband don't have those rules on their data sheets, the other formations do.

Can we still take the Great Waaagh! Detachment from 1st ed. W!G? This will allow for the warbikestar to remain, but if it has been cut we will loose regular access to Mega Force Field.

Have you guys written GW an e-mail about quality of the product? I have.

Waaargh wrote:
Can we still take the Great Waaagh! Detachment from 1st ed. W!G? This will allow for the warbikestar to remain, but if it has been cut we will loose regular access to Mega Force Field.

Have you guys written GW an e-mail about quality of the product? I have.

I've read the ONE benefit to this book is the relics are available to any ork army now. So you can have the mega kff and the lukky stikk in one CAD. (Lukky stikk on warboss and mega kff on big mek)

I to have sent an email.

I'm still curious if the new Painmob rukes ha e shown up anywhere.