Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

[insert joke about salty losers here].

Given that I am Scottish nationalist the joke will soon be on you

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Unlike you, I respect democracy and don't spit my dummy out when a vote does not go my way.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
As I read the many comments posted, especially those that take issue with the validity of the referendum or seek ways to usurp or countermand it I am reminded of the following;

“Elections have consequences,” and, in case there was any doubt, “I won.” - President Obama

I would like to say as a citizen of a state that seems to come across a bit shall we say "independently minded", I take the Brexit vote as something courageous, irrespective of the result.

Though many criticize Cameron personally for the decision to endorse and organize the referendum, the fortitude to put such a question to the poeple is undeniably enviable. It renews my faith in democratic ideals especially from a backdrop where in my country, we seem to go inevitably from popular vote, to bureaucratic rule making, to litigation when the popular vote fails to achieve the desired outcome.

Democracy can certainly be messy ,and yes the majority is not always right, but Huzzah for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland for showing the rest of the world real democracy in action.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It saddens me that so many people value democracy so little that they would rip it up the moment they don't get what they wanted

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

 Lone Cat wrote:

Asterios wrote:
i'm curious with Britain leaving will other countries follow suit and leave the Euro ? I mean before now the only country to leave the EU was Greenland, albeit Greece had talked of it, but now that Britain is allegedly doing it, will other countries follow suit? and if so where will that leave the countries that relied on their cash flush neighbors for support?

still it will take Britain years to untangle themselves from the agreements and policies and such, but it does beg one to wonder if other countries will follow suit?

AFAIK The Netherlands are considering a plebiscite whether to leave or stay with the EU. but I don't think France and Germany will follow. they represent the entire EU for so long, even the founding membership themselves, why leave?

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It saddens me that so many people value democracy so little that they would rip it up the moment they don't get what they wanted

They are obviously taking a leaf out of Nigel Farage's big book of politics

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

Boris Johnson wrote: "Today I think all of us politicians need to thank the British people for the way they have been doing the job for us. They hire us to deal with the hard questions and this year we gave them one of the biggest and toughest questions of all.

Some people are now saying that was wrong and that people should never have been asked in that way. I disagree, it was entirely right and inevitable and there is no way of dealing with a decision on this scale except by putting it to the people.

Because in the end this decision is about the people, the right of people in this country to settle their own destiny. The very principles of our democracy, the rights of all of us to elect and remove the people who make the key decisions in their lives.

And I think that the electorate have searched in their hearts and answered as best they can in a poll the scale the like of which we have never seen before in this country. They have decided it is time to vote to take back control from a EU that has become too opaque and not accountable enough to the people it is meant to serve.

In voting to leave the EU, it is vital to stress there is no need for haste, and as the prime minister has said, nothing will change in the short term except how to give effect to the will of the people and to extricate this country from the supranational system. There is no need to invoke Article 50.

And to those who may be anxious both at home and abroad, this does not mean that the United Kingdom will be in anyway less united, it does not mean it will be any less European.

I want to speak directly to the millions of people who did not vote for this outcome, especially young people who may feel that this decision involves somehow pulling up the drawbridge because I think the very opposite is true.

We cannot turn our backs on Europe. We are part of Europe, our children and our grandchildren will continue to have a wonderful future as Europeans, travelling to the continent, understanding the languages and the cultures that make up our common European civilisation, continuing to interact with the peoples of other countries in a way that is open and friendly and outward looking.

And I want to reassure everyone Britain will continue to be a great European power, leading discussions on defence and foreign policy and the work that goes on to make our world safer.

But there is simply no need in the 21st century to be part of a federal government in Brussels that is imitated nowhere else on Earth. It was a noble idea for its time but it is no longer right for this country.

It is the essence of our case that young people in this country can look forward to a more secure and more prosperous future, if we take back the democratic control which is the foundation of our economic prosperity.

We have a glorious opportunity, to pass our laws and set our taxes entirely according to the needs of the UK, we can control our borders in a way that is not discriminatory but fair and balanced and take the wind out of the sails of the extremists and those who would play politics with immigration.

Above all, we can find our voice in the world again, a voice commensurate with the fifth biggest economy on earth. Powerful, liberal, humane, an extraordinary force for good in the world.

The most precious thing this country has given the world is the idea of parliamentary democracy. Yesterday, I believe the British people have spoken up for democracy in Britain and across Europe and we can be proud of the result."

 filbert wrote:
I don't like Boris personally but I think that is an excellent summation and should be praised for. That is what I voted Leave for, not some nebulous 'hurrr, immigration bad' concept that some in the Remain camp wish to paint us with.

 filbert wrote:
I don't like Boris personally but I think that is an excellent summation and should be praised for. That is what I voted Leave for, not some nebulous 'hurrr, immigration bad' concept that some in the Remain camp wish to paint us with.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Regarding the allegation that Farage is "backtracking" on taking the £350m we give to to the EU and using it for the NHS...thats utter bs. The Official Leave Campaign made that pledge. Farage was not part of that campaign, he helped lead a separate campaign. He had no part in making that pledge.

That ITV/Good Morning interview was an ignorant hit piece attacking Farage for something he wasn't responsible for.

What a pity that Farage was happy to let the false claim slide for weeks during the campaign. I am sure it was all justified in the support of a greater cause.

Oh, get over yourself.

It was not a "False pledge". Farage did not make the pledge. He has no responsibility for keeping it, or for holding the other Leave Campaign to account before or after the Referendum over the promises they make. He's merely given his opinion that he doesn't agree with it, because he thinks its a promise that can't be kept.

The actual people who made the pledge, the Official Leave Campaign, have not to my knowledge, recanted it.. Ergo its not (yet) a "false pledge" and you're geting your knickers in a twist for no reason. Who knows? Maybe the people who actually made the pledge will be able to keep it.

If you could just get over your hate for Farage for one moment, perhaps you could direct your ire at the people who are actually responsible.

jouso wrote:

 filbert wrote:
I don't like Boris personally but I think that is an excellent summation and should be praised for. That is what I voted Leave for, not some nebulous 'hurrr, immigration bad' concept that some in the Remain camp wish to paint us with.

Sorry but the "no need to invoke art 50" sounds like someone's getting cold feet.

You were a prominent member in a campaign full of vitriol and misinformation. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Regarding the allegation that Farage is "backtracking" on taking the £350m we give to to the EU and using it for the NHS...thats utter bs. The Official Leave Campaign made that pledge. Farage was not part of that campaign, he helped lead a separate campaign. He had no part in making that pledge.

That ITV/Good Morning interview was an ignorant hit piece attacking Farage for something he wasn't responsible for.

What a pity that Farage was happy to let the false claim slide for weeks during the campaign. I am sure it was all justified in the support of a greater cause.

Oh, get over yourself.

It was not a "False pledge". Farage did not make the pledge. He has no responsibility for keeping it, or for holding the other Leave Campaign to account before or after the Referendum over the promises they make. He's merely given his opinion that he doesn't agree with it, because he thinks its a promise that can't be kept.

The actual people who made the pledge, the Official Leave Campaign, have not to my knowledge, recanted it.. Ergo its not (yet) a "false pledge" and you're geting your knickers in a twist for no reason. Who knows? Maybe the people who actually made the pledge will be able to keep it.

If you could just get over your hate for Farage for one moment, perhaps you could direct your ire at the people who are actually responsible.

As you know perfectly well、Farage has been a leading mover in the Brexit campaign for years.

jouso wrote:

Sorry but the "no need to invoke art 50" sounds like someone's getting cold feet.

You were a prominent member in a campaign full of vitriol and misinformation. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

jouso wrote:

 filbert wrote:
I don't like Boris personally but I think that is an excellent summation and should be praised for. That is what I voted Leave for, not some nebulous 'hurrr, immigration bad' concept that some in the Remain camp wish to paint us with.

Sorry but the "no need to invoke art 50" sounds like someone's getting cold feet.

You were a prominent member in a campaign full of vitriol and misinformation. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

Just like the campaign for remain.

If anything the bias of the media has been spectacularly vulgar in some cases. Robert Petson for ITV is particularly guilty of a pro European bias. Just sat through a piece in ITV news and his commentary was just dripping honeyed venom.

If you go by the TV remainers have been hard done by. Starry eyed youngsters, now never able to spread their wings and fly thanks to the bumbling, incoherent, racist exiters. who put their X in the leave box. (if they could have shown someone with a pencil in their clenched fist it would have been perfect).

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 filbert wrote:
I don't like Boris personally but I think that is an excellent summation and should be praised for. That is what I voted Leave for, not some nebulous 'hurrr, immigration bad' concept that some in the Remain camp wish to paint us with.

I didn't follow the vast majority of the Leave campaign. For me, the vote came down to one point on either side: Remain's vote to try and spearhead reform from inside the EU, or Leave because the EU is too stubborn and resistant to change, and only wants to become a superstate under the single currency, where they rule over everyone. I was heavily on the fence the entire way, and the only thing that swayed me was the lack of debate around that Leave point, specifically the Five President's Report. It's been discussed a bit here, but the view has been rather overwhelmingly 'this is bad, we should leave', so I tried to ask a few Remainers I know to be intelligent people about what they thought of the report, so I could get some more insight into it from that perspective. I was met with silence across the board. Nobody was interested. That's what tipped me that half a percent over to leave. I voted on a 49.5%-50.5% split, because nobody I asked could come up with a reason why I should vote remain despite the 5PR, or Juncker's claims on Wednesday that there would be no reform.

To provide a metaphor, for me, it was like buying a car. I researched two that I thought to be the best, and now want to see what others think of them. The first is well-debated by people with more knowledge of it than me, and has many pros and cons laid bare. The second, however, is not well-debated, and has no cons to challenge the pros that those with more knowledge than me have provided. Do I choose the car with as many flaws as strengths? Or the one with apparently no, or very few/minor flaws versus significantly more strengths?

My vote was a call I had to make based on what information I had at the time. That was the best I could do. Do I regret it? Yes. Do I think it was the right call? Not really, no. But I needed to make a call, so I did.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-what-is-the-eu-google_us_576d2dfee4b0dbb1bbba3911

Gotta love that informed public

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I agree, that speech certainly represents my feelings on the matter, having voted "out".

 Mr. Burning wrote:


This was one of my prime reasons for voting leave.

The 5PR. TTIP. Remainers either had no idea what they are or in the worst examples the 5PR was brushed off as irrelevant and not worth looking into.

I am also a class traitor now in someways..I'm not sure why or how, and racist, very racist....I think I am on par with Hitler or the Klan.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
If you think we are safe from TTIP then I think we are all going to be very disappointed. We have moved to a position of less power to negotiate with the US from. We are now more likely to get it pushed onto us without any limitations.

"My husband is British, but could not vote because the UK strips citizens of their vote if they've lived outside the UK for 15 years or more. Here's his take on why this happened:

"I think there are several reasons, some complicated, some not.

In no particular order:

1) Bigotry. At the end of the day UKIP is just the BNP by a different name. As already mentioned above there is a perception that immigrants are taking people's jobs. While there may be an element of truth to this, there is also the side that many come over and do jobs that the locals are unwilling to do.

2) The little england (deliberate lower case e) mentality is still alive and thriving. The whole we used to rule half the world bs.

3) Lowered standards of living. Which was caused by the 2008 financial crisis, and tax payers are still covering the cost for this.

4) Lack of affordable housing, deterioration of the NHS & schools. All down to a tory ideological mantra of cutting state services.

5) 30 years of declining educational standards. Analytical thinking is no longer taught properly or considered a desirable skill, learning by rote is instead. This leaves many people totally unable, or just too damn lazy, to actually see through the bs and lies (from both sides it has to be said) to get to the actual facts.

6) The remain camp has been absolutely awful at debunking the total lies spread by BoJo & Co.

7) The Murdoch effect. Similar to the US, Murdoch controls a vast amount of the UK media industry, and has been blocked several times by the EU from expanding his monopoly in the UK. When people are constantly bombarded with lies & sensationalism, with again either not having the will or the ability to look through the crap. Murdoch's so called news sources have waged a huge propaganda campaign on the leave side.
At the end of the day the EU is far from perfect, and does need to become more accountable, but this is pretty much true of all governments. Overall it has had far more positive than negative effects.

If I have offended anyone with the above then suck it up and deal with it. Today I am ashamed and disgusted to call myself British. I sincerely hope you get the fethed up screw the people over government of Johnson, Gove and Duncan-Smith you deserve.

 Lone Cat wrote:

Asterios wrote:
i'm curious with Britain leaving will other countries follow suit and leave the Euro ? I mean before now the only country to leave the EU was Greenland, albeit Greece had talked of it, but now that Britain is allegedly doing it, will other countries follow suit? and if so where will that leave the countries that relied on their cash flush neighbors for support?

still it will take Britain years to untangle themselves from the agreements and policies and such, but it does beg one to wonder if other countries will follow suit?

AFAIK The Netherlands are considering a plebiscite whether to leave or stay with the EU. but I don't think France and Germany will follow. they represent the entire EU for so long, even the founding membership themselves, why leave?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-what-is-the-eu-google_us_576d2dfee4b0dbb1bbba3911

Gotta love that informed public

 Smacks wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
If you think we are safe from TTIP then I think we are all going to be very disappointed. We have moved to a position of less power to negotiate with the US from. We are now more likely to get it pushed onto us without any limitations.

Yeah, it's like we went from being in a prison gang to bending over in the TTIP showers.

 Ahtman wrote:
Stolen from Facebook:

....I sincerely hope you get the fethed up screw the people over government of Johnson, Gove and Duncan-Smith you deserve.

 Ahtman wrote:
Stolen from Facebook:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Regarding the allegation that Farage is "backtracking" on taking the £350m we give to to the EU and using it for the NHS...thats utter bs. The Official Leave Campaign made that pledge. Farage was not part of that campaign, he helped lead a separate campaign. He had no part in making that pledge.

That ITV/Good Morning interview was an ignorant hit piece attacking Farage for something he wasn't responsible for.

What a pity that Farage was happy to let the false claim slide for weeks during the campaign. I am sure it was all justified in the support of a greater cause.

Oh, get over yourself.

It was not a "False pledge". Farage did not make the pledge. He has no responsibility for keeping it, or for holding the other Leave Campaign to account before or after the Referendum over the promises they make. He's merely given his opinion that he doesn't agree with it, because he thinks its a promise that can't be kept.

The actual people who made the pledge, the Official Leave Campaign, have not to my knowledge, recanted it.. Ergo its not (yet) a "false pledge" and you're geting your knickers in a twist for no reason. Who knows? Maybe the people who actually made the pledge will be able to keep it.

If you could just get over your hate for Farage for one moment, perhaps you could direct your ire at the people who are actually responsible.

As you know perfectly well、Farage has been a leading mover in the Brexit campaign for years.

Thats...not a counter argument.

You know perfectly well that one cannot be held responsible for the actions and promises of people you are not associated with and have no influence or authority over.

You do realise that there were two entirely separate Leave Campaigns, right? One with official acknowledgement and public funding, and one without. The former made the NHS pledge, the latter is the campaign to which Farage belongs.