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Mob Rule itself isnt bad, the Ghazzy Sup's version of Mob Rule is abysmal. Unless youre 10+ models, you might as well not have the rule because a 2+ requires 10 models. Thats why people are so pissed about it with these formations.
LD7 is a 50-50 pass at best, and heaven forbid something lowers it or forces a 3d6 test. I fail it all the time, but i usually take 1-2 wounds from mob rule afterwords which isnt a big deal. Non10+ mobs in these formations will never get mobrule unless you roll a 1, which is pathetic as hell. And its more painful too, as the average hits against the unit is now ~5 instead of ~3. I dont get how anybody could ever look at that rule Ghazzy sup has to deal with and think its a good tradeoff of more average hits vs +2 on the chart. +/-2 would be awesome, as you could 50-50 get Born to Fight in melee or get Breakin' Heads on a 2-5 purely on a whim, but sadly its not. I'd rather it be +2 on the chart not the die roll, so 1-3 is born to fight and 4+ requires a character.
And while yes formations technically shouldnt be in smaller games, the fact is they are and they are everywhere. Orks cannot bring them in standard games without gimping ourselves, how does bringing a formation GIMP you? The day necrons stop abusing their 4+ reanimation formations, eldar stop abusing mass WK formations, or tau stop abusing Optimized Stealth Cadres/Hunter Contingents in regular games is the day i wont complain i cant do that crap at all.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
The WK thing actually isn't formation based, generally, but just multiple min cads, or a non-formation Aux which nobody takes because the eldar core choices have a good bit of tax.
This really was the biggest letdown for me. I've thought for a long time that what orks need are a good decurion formation, and this absolutely does not deliver at all. Yes, the waaaghing on turn one is nice, and I don't give a crap about getting free S3 HoW attacks, but the +2 to the mob rule table is awful. Why give us that penalty? Hell, why give us a penalty at all for taking this awful decurion? The main issue is that we have so little options on this table that are actually good. At best we can get two painboys, but this requires we take a bunch of our worst walkers. We only have two core choices, and we either have to take more horrible walkers and a unit of plain nobz (which I've always seen as lackluster), or choose the other core and are forced to take a shitton of boyz. Once again, I cannot understand why it requires us to take six units of boyz.
And for people saying "yeah, but that's fluffy, so it's okay!", that is not an acceptable excuse- you can bring a bunch of boyz without bringing 6 units of them. With 6 units of boyz, people are going to be bringing 6 units of 10, which is only 60 boyz, but you could bring the exact same number of boyz in only 2 or 3 squads, making the formation infinitely better. Honestly, if the restriction was "2-3 units of at least 20 boyz" the formation would be fifteen times better, but no, we have to take 6 clunky, frail units of boyz that won't get anything done. I'm going to agree with the majority here and say this was a case of GW slapping together a formation without much thought or effort.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
Do I want to Waaagh! every turn?
If yes -> Bring the Great Waaagh!-band
If no -> Bring 1+ CAD and/or Great Waaagh Detachment
Do I want to mix Gifts of Gork and Mork with Orkimedes Kustom Gubbinz in the same detachment?
Just mix and match CAD and Great Waaagh Detachment characters.
This leaves the question: Does the Great Waaagh Detachment still exists?
And for people saying "yeah, but that's fluffy, so it's okay!", that is not an acceptable excuse- you can bring a bunch of boyz without bringing 6 units of them. With 6 units of boyz, people are going to be bringing 6 units of 10, which is only 60 boyz, but you could bring the exact same number of boyz in only 2 or 3 squads, making the formation infinitely better. Honestly, if the restriction was "2-3 units of at least 20 boyz" the formation would be fifteen times better, but no, we have to take 6 clunky, frail units of boyz that won't get anything done. I'm going to agree with the majority here and say this was a case of GW slapping together a formation without much thought or effort.
Hear, hear.
Not to mention that, technically, Ghazghkull is a Goff, and Goffs aren't speed freaks - they rely on fewer, big mobs of foot Boyz instead of more Trukk mobs.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
hordrak wrote: Ok, we have allredy seen the new orkurion. It's... not the best out there. However, it could be possible to put it into use. My oppinion is a Warband in Trukks with the WAAAAGH!-Council and a single Deffkopta or Warbuggy. It can be fit into 1850 pts, but it's best played at 2000 pts. Let the brainstorming begin!
I am not an Ork player, but this seems to be a fairly open formation regarding choices. You have 2 command choices and 2 cores. Atleast there is some variability.
The problem is the cores are super rigid to in what you can take in them and in how many units you can field, while also being stupid exspensive. Also Da Boss iz Watching is fething terribad.
What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
BoomWolf wrote: What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
Everything is known already. "Da Boss iz Watchin" stays the same.
BoomWolf wrote: What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
Everything is known already. "Da Boss iz Watchin" stays the same.
BoomWolf wrote: What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
Everything is known already. "Da Boss iz Watchin" stays the same.
Ghaz rules = Orcurion rules
Nothing is already known. I'm looking at rumor sites every 4 hours in average, and yet to have seen confirmation on the vast majority of rules and formations beyond looking at their old version.
Do you know the army variant rules? Because their old rules are now orkurion rules, so detachment rules undoubtedly changed.
Same with the band rules, they are now orkurion rules, so unless you suggest the band has no rules, they got something new and unknown.
Pretty much nothing aside of the orkurion rules has scans yet, and even they partly refer to other pages rather than list the rules. The unknown is far greater than the known.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
BoomWolf wrote: What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
Everything is known already. "Da Boss iz Watchin" stays the same.
Ghaz rules = Orcurion rules
Nothing is already known. I'm looking at rumor sites every 4 hours in average, and yet to have seen confirmation on the vast majority of rules and formations beyond looking at their old version.
Do you know the army variant rules? Because their old rules are now orkurion rules, so detachment rules undoubtedly changed.
Same with the band rules, they are now orkurion rules, so unless you suggest the band has no rules, they got something new and unknown.
Pretty much nothing aside of the orkurion rules has scans yet, and even they partly refer to other pages rather than list the rules. The unknown is far greater than the known.
We already know the rules. The e-book version is out and people already posted in this and in the other thread the rules.
The waaagh band benefit is waagh every turn, yes, it's the same benefit of the detachment.
Edit: stupid autocorrect
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/22 11:33:09
BoomWolf wrote: What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
Everything is known already. "Da Boss iz Watchin" stays the same.
Ghaz rules = Orcurion rules
Nothing is already known. I'm looking at rumor sites every 4 hours in average, and yet to have seen confirmation on the vast majority of rules and formations beyond looking at their old version.
Do you know the army variant rules? Because their old rules are now orkurion rules, so detachment rules undoubtedly changed.
Same with the band rules, they are now orkurion rules, so unless you suggest the band has no rules, they got something new and unknown.
Pretty much nothing aside of the orkurion rules has scans yet, and even they partly refer to other pages rather than list the rules. The unknown is far greater than the known.
We already know the rules. The e-book versione is out and people already posted in this and in the other thread the rules.
The waaagh band benefit is waagh every turn, yes, it's the same benefit of the detachment.
Paste then screens for cores
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/22 12:11:02
Speed freaks
Waagh band with the boys in trucks, everyone else on bikes, (and the gretchin getting run over)
and 10 units of war bikes buggies and deffcoptas
(could add the battlewagons and bulk up the boys)
Moar Dakka
Waagh band with shoota boys
and 10 units of Lootas, Tankbustas, or mek gunz
BoomWolf wrote: What if..."Da Boss iz Watchin" itself also got tweaked?
Not saying its even rumored, but its possible.
Also, given that the old ghaz faction rules are now the orkurion rules, are there not supposed to be new replacement ghaz faction rules? otherwise there is no difference between ghaz faction and vanilla orks.
There is a lot of information yet unknown.
Everything is known already. "Da Boss iz Watchin" stays the same.
Ghaz rules = Orcurion rules
Nothing is already known. I'm looking at rumor sites every 4 hours in average, and yet to have seen confirmation on the vast majority of rules and formations beyond looking at their old version.
Do you know the army variant rules? Because their old rules are now orkurion rules, so detachment rules undoubtedly changed.
Same with the band rules, they are now orkurion rules, so unless you suggest the band has no rules, they got something new and unknown.
Pretty much nothing aside of the orkurion rules has scans yet, and even they partly refer to other pages rather than list the rules. The unknown is far greater than the known.
We already know the rules. The e-book versione is out and people already posted in this and in the other thread the rules.
The waaagh band benefit is waagh every turn, yes, it's the same benefit of the detachment.
Paste then screens for cores
you are right, i was sure the rules for the core formations were posted in the other tread but i could not find them.
I have downloaded the updated WG supplement from Black Library. There is really no need to post the core formations. Why?
Because they are the freaking same as before!
WAAAGH Band is the same as our codex formation
Killmob is the same except you take a vanilla waaaghboss instead of Grukk
Blitz Brigade now has S 10 ramming
Krushin Krew has rage instead of furious charge
Then we have the three crappy new fligher formations
Blub wrote: I have downloaded the updated WG supplement from Black Library. There is really no need to post the core formations. Why?
Because they are the freaking same as before!
WAAAGH Band is the same as our codex formation
Killmob is the same except you take a vanilla waaaghboss instead of Grukk
Blitz Brigade now has S 10 ramming
Krushin Krew has rage instead of furious charge
Then we have the three crappy new fligher formations
EVERYTHING else stays the same.
I don't get it. Why woyld the core give the same bonuses as the orcurion? There must be some mistake. There has to be. Otherwise that's just realy, realy stupid.
Did you notice that the warlord of the "Orkurion" can reroll the warlord trait roll, and the rule actually doesn't specify any table trait or book or codex ?
Meaning that the Orkurion warlord can reroll on the Command or strategic trait for example (and not just that crappy Ork warlord trait...) .
As said in another post, I think I can achieve something pretty nice with Waaagh-Band + dreadmob, even under 1850...
XC18 wrote: Did you notice that the warlord of the "Orkurion" can reroll the warlord trait roll, and the rule actually doesn't specify any table trait or book or codex ?
Meaning that the Orkurion warlord can reroll on the Command or strategic trait for example (and not just that crappy Ork warlord trait...)
Sorry mate. WAAAGH Band only allows you to reroll traits from the codex or from W!G.
Blub wrote: Sorry mate. WAAAGH Band only allows you to reroll traits from the codex or from W!G.
Only if the Waaagh!-Band Formation is Primary Detachment.
Which is not the case : here it is the "Great Waaagh!-band" which is the primary detachment, while the "Waaagh!-band" formation is just a Core choice.
Unfortunatly having only one way to run the orkurion I'm thinking to try the following loudout for the Council: 2 warbosses in MA, Big mek with MFF and barebone nobs. Majoriry T5, majority 6+ save, but lots of S10 attacks and 2+/2++. In CC some nob issues a chalange so Ghazy can soak up any wound. Not going to steamroll wolfstars or fateweaver stars, but will be a big pain for any opponent. Might even squize it into 1850.
The Ghazzcurion (might be a disservice to label it Orkcurion when there is hope for a proper Ork codex Decurion) offers nothing of note for my preferred tactics so unless the WAAAAGH-Band core rules are ungodly (free eavy armor) then I won't be fielding it. Now maybe they will buff up some of the formations to be even better such as bully boyz, badrukk flash gitz, or zadstrukk's stormboyz. Green Tide being absent is really concerning as that was one of the most competive ways to play Orks (until Eldar Corsairs got that squig gak "go into reserves" psychic power).
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
mean green fightin machine 
7000+ Points Death Skullz
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"