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CSM book needs to be able to support itself without the use of FW or allies. More options would be nice as well.

 mrveng wrote:
CSM book needs to be able to support itself without the use of FW or allies. More options would be nice as well.

More options will unfortunately never happen until the model line gets fixed.

Plastic dread claws in the main dex would be a great addition. Also the ability to make MoK Rhinos into assault vehicles. Other than that, points drops pretty much everywhere and the ability to squadron vehicles and/or dinobots. Some way to get your HQ a 2+ armor save would be nice, or especially a 3+ ward (other than MoT).

 Korinov wrote:

commander dante wrote:
A 'Daemon Shield' which is basically a Storm Shield

Storm Shields as they are now make me angry. Nothing in this game should be allowed to provide a 3++ save on its own. I wouldn't mind if Storm Shields actually gave +2 to Invul Saves, that way a Terminator with a Storm Shield would get the 3++, but people on a 'mere' power armor like Stupidname Furry Cavalry would be reduced to 5++.

If that were the case, I would be positive towards a Daemon Shield which granted +1 to Invul saves and counted as an additional CCW for assault purposes. Some slightly more powerful (and expensive) versions could exist for each one of the Gods, only available to marked CSM.

Warp Talons get Daemon, and are AP2

I'd swear they are Daemons already. AP2 would be too much however. Warp Talons already fulfill the "marine meat grinder" role, the issue is they are brutally overpriced for what they can actually do in the game. And their special snowflake rule (Blind) is an unfunny joke.

Chaos Lord/Sorceror with Jump Pack unlocks raptors for troops

Legion Rules instead for Night Lords, with four FA slots but a single HS one. As in 3.5.

Something similar to ATSKNF, Like they Auto Rally, but are NOT immune to fear

I hate ATSKNF and similar unneeded snowflake rules. Actually the Veterans of the Long War option already fulfills that issue in my eyes.

DOOMRIDER to return (and buffed)

Yes please.

Always though that a Chaos Shield could give a 4++ save or a Daemon Ward save that could be upped by things like grimoire and stuff.

A Basic could be 4++, count as a CCW and shields could be possesed by a Daemon of X and give further effect.
-Bloodletter; either allows the models to sprint+assault or make HoW hits Str6 Ap4.
-Plaquebearer; units assaulted by this model cannot fire in Overwatch.
-Daemonette; ennemy models cannot fall back and the model count as been equiped with grenades.
-Blue Horror; reroll failed invul saves of 1.

Doomrider is the only Slaanesh model i can tolerate, would like to see a detachement with him and Chaos bikers.

Would have Ws/BS of 8 Str and T of 6, move as a jetbike, Smash rule and some other stuff, if he hovers over ennelmy unit, one of those takes D3+1 hits resolved at Doomrider's Strength and AP value.

Veteran of the Long War could be modified to reflect the bitter nature of CSM; gives prefered ennemy "IoM" and " Taking you with Us!"; if a CSM as to fall back and is destroyed because of a sweeping advance, before, taking the models of the table, choose One of the following;
-the CSm unit can deliver a melee attack Vs the sweeping unit, they use their normal amounts of attacks and rules/wargear, they resolve their hits with a -1 on their WS.
-The CSM unit can resolve a shooting attack Vs the sweeping unit, they can use their wargear/rules as normal, it counts as a normal shooting attack, but they resolve those with a malus of 1 on their BS.
Ennemy models killed are taken out, if after this attack the ennemy unit still has more models then the CSM unit, the CSM is destroyed and taken out of play as casualty like usual.
If the CSM unit as more models then the sweeping unit, then the CSM unit isn't destroyed, and they continue figthing in the subsequent Assault phase like normal.
If the CSM completly kills off the ennemy unit using this rule, they can act normaly in their next turn.

Vehicles that gets the Daemonic possession should been able to be possesed by a Gods given Daemon and gain approriate rules given its role.

-Khorne Daemon Possession; Rhino-works as a Dirge Caster and models in 8" of the Rhino gets +1 on their WS and BS
Land Raider as Dirge caster, and models disembarking from it can run+assault in the same turn.
Walkers, Gains Rage and Hatred.
Predator, gains Monster Hunter/Tank hunter rules.
Vindicator, units with the MoK/DoK special rules, that assault a unit/terrain containing a unit that has been targeted and fired upon by the vindicator counts has been equipped with grenades.
Heldrake, makes D3 Vector strikes hits Vs ground models and D3+1 Vs Flying models.

And so on with the other Gods.

Detachement for each Legion/Warband, but with an acceptable amount of minimum units, unlike the CotW Daemons formations...

I definatly could go around something like ; 1 Lord, 0+ Chosen, 2+ CSM/Cults Marines units, 1+War Engine( be it a Daemon engine or any of the HS vehicles) and a Spawn or Possesed Tax.

Dantes Baals wrote:
Some way to get your HQ a 2+ armor save would be nice, or especially a 3+ ward (other than MoT).

There are fleshmetal and terminator armour, both of which give a 2+ save.

 corpuschain wrote:

Dantes Baals wrote:
Some way to get your HQ a 2+ armor save would be nice, or especially a 3+ ward (other than MoT).

There are fleshmetal and terminator armour, both of which give a 2+ save.

Only warpsmiths get Fleshmetal though, others have to make do with TDA or PA, so you can choose between 3+, or 2+/5++. The downsides are that TDA makes Sgil of Corruption more expensive (you're paying for +1 vs +3 to your Invul), paying for Deep Strike and Relentless which are virtually worthless on an IC or will never be used, as well as limit his transport option to the Land Raider.


My wish in this case is that there becomes an Artificer Armour equivilent and Fleshmetal becomes something different altogether. Call it "Chosen Armour," it gives a 2+ save and roll it out to Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes (Warpsmith comes standard). Fleshmetal then grants a Feel No Pain. Oblits and Mutilators get Terminator Armour (nothing actually changes ruleswise, they are still SNP so can't sweep and are relentless, still same saves, still have Very Bulky).

 BlaxicanX wrote:

- Upgrade Defiler to a super-heavy walker.

Defilers can become Super-Heavy Walkers when Sentinels become SHWs, Valkyries become SHFs, LRBTs and Chimera hulls become SHVs.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

- Upgrade Defiler to a super-heavy walker.

Defilers can become Super-Heavy Walkers when Sentinels become SHWs, Valkyries become SHFs, LRBTs and Chimera hulls become SHVs.

Not before Killa Kans become a 6 model SHW squadron

 Deadshot wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:

Dantes Baals wrote:
Some way to get your HQ a 2+ armor save would be nice, or especially a 3+ ward (other than MoT).

There are fleshmetal and terminator armour, both of which give a 2+ save.

Only warpsmiths get Fleshmetal though, others have to make do with TDA or PA, so you can choose between 3+, or 2+/5++. The downsides are that TDA makes Sgil of Corruption more expensive (you're paying for +1 vs +3 to your Invul), paying for Deep Strike and Relentless which are virtually worthless on an IC or will never be used, as well as limit his transport option to the Land Raider.


My wish in this case is that there becomes an Artificer Armour equivilent and Fleshmetal becomes something different altogether. Call it "Chosen Armour," it gives a 2+ save and roll it out to Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes (Warpsmith comes standard). Fleshmetal then grants a Feel No Pain. Oblits and Mutilators get Terminator Armour (nothing actually changes ruleswise, they are still SNP so can't sweep and are relentless, still same saves, still have Very Bulky).

This is what I had in mind. Should have specified artificer armor equivalent. Asking for the DP to have access would be a long shot IMO. It would be awesome and very welcomed, but I think its a reach to say that DPs will get "chosen armor" if it comes up in the new dex.

Another possible idea for dealing with the lack of ATSKNF, give CSM something like the following:

Traitorous Brotherhood:
Units containing a model with this rule may attempt to regroup immediately at the end of any fallback move.

If a unit with this rule is broken at the end of close combat and caught by a sweeping advance, rather than being destroyed, the unit regroups automatically and remains locked in close combat. However, the unit automatically loses a number of models equal to the difference in scores on the sweeping advance test, with no saves of any kind allowed. The owning player chooses which models from the unit to remove.

Basic idea: almost as good as loyalist marines, but if they're losing a close combat, the traitors lack discipline and will sacrifice their fellow marines to buy themselves breathing room.

Personally, I would love for them to be the equal opposites of loyalists, having very different, but similar units, to make them the less reliable, but with more of an "awesome but impractical" vibe to them like three shot plasma rifles, that get hot on a 5+ or units that become stronger as a combat lasts, but start out weaker.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
like three shot plasma rifles, that get hot on a 5+ or units that become stronger as a combat lasts, but start out weaker.

You mean like plasma culverns and ruststalkers?

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
like three shot plasma rifles, that get hot on a 5+ or units that become stronger as a combat lasts, but start out weaker.

You mean like plasma culverns and ruststalkers?

What are those?

 thepowerfulwill wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
like three shot plasma rifles, that get hot on a 5+ or units that become stronger as a combat lasts, but start out weaker.

You mean like plasma culverns and ruststalkers?

What are those?

Skitarii stuff.

The Plasma Caliver is an 18" Plasma Gun that is Assault 3 rather than Rapid Fire.
Ruststalkers have a special rule for their weapons called "Transsonic" where the first round of combat the weapons are very "meh", with a pseudo-Rend...but once round 2 rolls around? They're ALWAYS AP2.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
like three shot plasma rifles, that get hot on a 5+ or units that become stronger as a combat lasts, but start out weaker.

You mean like plasma culverns and ruststalkers?

What are those?

Skitarii stuff.

The Plasma Caliver is an 18" Plasma Gun that is Assault 3 rather than Rapid Fire.
Ruststalkers have a special rule for their weapons called "Transsonic" where the first round of combat the weapons are very "meh", with a pseudo-Rend...but once round 2 rolls around? They're ALWAYS AP2.

I'm pretty sure at this point that GW is much more likely to give us an all new close combat weapon that hits at Str. user -1/ap-, and on any successful to-hit roll, the weapon snaps in half and inflicts an automatic Str.D hit on the user.

They'll be called 'Hazardous Destroyers', and end up being the single best weapon in the game at "Forging the Narrative!"

I'd be happy if they looked at Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Legion Rules and copied them over with some flavour changes to represent the Chaos influence over the millennia. Would be a nice bit of legacy too, linking the two different era's together.

 GoonBandito wrote:
I'd be happy if they looked at Forgeworld's Horus Heresy Legion Rules and copied them over with some flavour changes to represent the Chaos influence over the millennia. Would be a nice bit of legacy too, linking the two different era's together.

It would be a really good starting off point to be honest.

That's kinda what I tried when I came up with a chaos decurion, though I would do things quite differently now seeing how far they're willing to go with formation buffs and new rules.

I'm pretty sure at this point that GW is much more likely to give us an all new close combat weapon that hits at Str. user -1/ap-, and on any successful to-hit roll, the weapon snaps in half and inflicts an automatic Str.D hit on the user.

They'll be called 'Hazardous Destroyers', and end up being the single best weapon in the game at "Forging the Narrative!"

I laughed so hard that I'm sore!

I think you're right, but haven't told the full story. In addition to everything you listed, the new CSM book will have several truly awesome characters/unit entries. There will also be two versions of the "Hazardous Destroyer". One version listed in the wargear list as an optional upgrade and one version that the really awesome new entries are REQUIRED to take. The required version will be exactly the same as the optional version but cost twice as much. Thereby making those new cool units overcosted and ineffective. No one in the codex will actually be able to take the less expensive optional version listed in the Chaos Armory.

Bitterness and disappointment are really the only things we have left as this point.

And perhaps a very dark sense of gallows humor to go along with it!

So essentially GW has quite efficiently forged the narrative. Making the CSM generals truly identify with their army

And perhaps a very dark sense of gallows humor to go along with it!

So essentially GW has quite efficiently forged the narrative. Making the CSM generals truly identify with their army

Agreed on all counts!

Chaos Space Marines; where the rules are flavourless and the bitterness never leaves your mouth!

It's because we mirror the long war in real life.



We look back at a great crusade, but we were betrayed by our leader..... We still fight the true fight...... We will bring 3.5 back one day.....

Wish list:

Cult Troops - make them useful again. Get Salvo off sonic weapons, make Plague Marines FNP(3), give Berzerkers chainaxes by default and let them upgrade to chainglaves, make TSons immune to anything under S5.

Terminators - give them options for marks / sigils that take to them 3+ invulnerable, give them options for more firepower.

Daemon Princes - give them eternal warrior and let them fly and charge.

Heldrake - get rid of the turret rule.

Defilers - decrease the points and let us take them in squads.

Predators - let us take them in squads.

Sorcerors - get rid of the god-specific disciplines so they can get a free power.

take the space marine codex, take a permanent sharpie cross out space marines and write "chaos space marines". DONE.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

- Upgrade Defiler to a super-heavy walker.

Defilers can become Super-Heavy Walkers when Sentinels become SHWs, Valkyries become SHFs, LRBTs and Chimera hulls become SHVs.

But naughts must remain regular walkers. Could also become a bit more expensive, probably.

Compare how much water a Wraith Knight displaces to how much a defiler displaces. Should a defiler then be considered a super heavy?

I think they (may) have the size for it, but as they stand, they don't have the stats for it, maybe with a strength D weapon, or better armor perhaps, but not as they stand now.

Oh predicting time
CSM will get something like that
- Heldrake Baleflamer nerf to Ap4
- Cultists will be 20 man minimum with WS 2 BS 2 Sv - and still cost 4 ppm
- To take any CSM codex units in your army you must take at least one Chaos Lord
- Obliterators will fire each weapon only once per game
- Maulerfiends get +35 pts cost each, Magma cutters will be reduced to meltabombs used instead of powerfists, and Lasher tendrils will give him just Shred (simplification)
- Obliterators and Mutilators will be 3 models per squad, no less no more
- Cult Troops removed from codex
- Spawn will nerfed back to moving 2d6" in random direction each Movement phase
- All Icons replaced with just +1 to combat resolution
- Nurgle mark give FnP instead of Toughness
- Daemonic Weapons will wound, reduce WS to 1 and grant no additional attacks to a model carrying it on 1-2 on Daemonic weapon roll
- Spell Familiars and Dirge casters will be removed from codex

and some decurion:
Chaos Renegade Warband (no Legion rules of course, but perhaps will fit Night Lords theme)
Benefits: re-roll Warlord trait from codex, Fear

Core choice
1 Chaos Lord
3-6 units of CSM
1-4 units of Possessed
0-2 unit of Chaos Terminators and/or Chosen
0-1 unit of Havocs
Restrictions:
if Lord take mark everyone else must take the same too
Special rules:
re-roll Warlord trait from codex, Fear, once per game all units in formation can gain Stubborn and Hatred (Imperials) for a turn

Command
1 Chaos Lord
1 Warpsmith
1 Dark Apostle
1 Sorcerer
Special rules: models must take challenges themselves (not champions from squads)
Enemy units within 6" take Fear at -2 Leadership

Auxilary #1
1 Warpsmith
3 Chaos Predators and/or Vindicators and/or Land Raiders
Restriction: every vehicle model must take destroyer blades
Special rules: Destroyer blade hits are resolved at Ap4 instead of Ap- and gain Soulblaze as long as a Warpsmith is somehow within 6" of the target

Auxilary #2
2-4 units of Raptors and 2-4 of Warp talons
Special rules: when they Deep strike, unit from the formation can sacrifice one model from it to reduce scatter roll by 1"
And all models in formation have Soulblaze on their Hammer of Wrath hits (yes I like Soulblaze)

Auxilary #3
1-3 units of Chaos Bikers, 2-4 units of Maulerfiends, Forgefiends or Defilers
Special rules: entire formation can choose to Outflank, arriving by single Reserve roll

Auxilary #4
1 unit of Spawn, 2 units of Helbrutes
Special rules: as long as they are within 6" of any other units from the formation, they gain Hatred

Auxilary #5
1 unit of Mutilators, 1 unit of Obliterators
Special rules: Mutilators can re-roll charge range against units being hit by Obliterators in the same turn

Auxilary #6
1 unit of Cultists (not a formation)