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 privateer4hire wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Thimn wrote:
I get that people want to save money but I know way to many local game stores who have either stopped carrying PP product or greatly cut back on stock.

Its not a matter that the game isn't popular(can see it being played quite often), its a matter that people are buying online as opposed to in-store even with a 25% discount.

So yes I think its a very good thing PP is taking this action.

Why though? If some random FLGS in a city can't manage to compete with online sellers why should rural gamers halfway across the country, or folk from other parts of the world who don't use the FLGS model to support their communities, be forced to pay what amounts to a subsidy to keep that failing business afloat?

The world has moved on, American FLGS can either adapt, or die off - either way, it shouldn't affect the ability of consumers who don't use them to find the best deal they can.

Yeah, damn them! They better get with the times so club-based gamers can buy cheap stuff online!

I assume there's meant to be some kind of reproach/sarcasm there, but essentially you've just restated exactly what my position is and added an exclamation point.

B&M retail cannot and will not survive in its present form; the sooner people accept that the sooner companies will stop enacting futile anti-consumer policies. B&M needs to innovate their business model like everyone else does - ask the music industry how regressive protectionism worked for them - and if they can't they don't deserve to continue operating. It's blunt, but that's the system - it's always a source of great amusement to me that an anti-capitalist has to keep reminding folk how capitalist markets are supposed to work.

If you want your FLGS to continue operating if they can't make enough from sales, persuade its owners and customers that paying a reasonable fee for table use is the right thing to do, but don't pretend that demanding gamers who don't even live in the same sodding country as you, let alone ones who just don't use the store, pay more to support a business model that's no longer fit-for-purpose is somehow the reasonable, rational position. That, if anything, is "entitlement", not consumers wanting to find the best deal they can.

General Hobbs wrote:

That model for a store has been tried and has failed ( charging to play, food and drinks) because if gamers aren't going to pay full price for product, they won't pay for a table, food or drinks. I've seen it happen time and again. Gamers would leave and go to 7-11 fo $1 hot dogs. This is why pool halls eventually failed...people would rather play at home or a cheap bar than support the pool hall through beer and food purchases.

The greed of gamers always amazes me. They want their toys as cheap as possible, but won't support the venues that provide places to play. The "entitlement" attitude saddens me.

You understand that comments like this make you look ridiculous considering it's being proved wrong every week of the year in the UK & Europe and has been for decades, yeah? Clubs are not free, people either pay a membership or they pay-to-play every time they show up - I seriously doubt American gamers are so uniquely "greedy" and "entitled" that a similar model can't work in stores, or if it genuinely can't that they would rather let their local communities die than set up a club of their own elsewhere.

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Meade wrote:
...Hell, i can even play xwing at my local starbucks. it's not hard.

As a reformed game evangelist, I will say that this may be just a slight bit harder than 'not hard'.
But I would seriously love to see photos of X-Wing being played at Starbucks especially if you can get multiple games going.
If you/your family happen to own said Starbucks, points will obviously have to be deducted.

Ok fair enough, Well kind of like a starbucks (starbucks coffee), but technically a barnes and nobles. Of course they also do sell the product in their store... all you have to do is buy some coffee and ask nicely they will let you play. Does that qualify as 'hard'? I've done it several times in two separate locations. multiple games, well if you took over the entire store maybe, but i guess that depends on the location and how busy they are.

 Meade wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Meade wrote:
...Hell, i can even play xwing at my local starbucks. it's not hard.

As a reformed game evangelist, I will say that this may be just a slight bit harder than 'not hard'.
But I would seriously love to see photos of X-Wing being played at Starbucks especially if you can get multiple games going.
If you/your family happen to own said Starbucks, points will obviously have to be deducted.

Ok fair enough, Well kind of like a starbucks (starbucks coffee), but technically a barnes and nobles. Of course they also do sell the product in their store... all you have to do is buy some coffee and ask nicely they will let you play. Does that qualify as 'hard'? I've done it several times in two separate locations. multiple games, well if you took over the entire store maybe, but i guess that depends on the location and how busy they are.

So kind of like a Starbucks in that they sell Starbucks coffee, but also a large chain book store that sells the product you're playing there

Like I said earlier, a lot of bookshops went under, and Amazon got blamed, but the good bookshops thrived, and offer things that the big boys could never offer.

If FLGS want to survive they could:

Run painting and terrain tutorials.

Run tournaments and events (which most do)

Sell food (which most probably do)

Invite games designers over for events, just like bookshops do with authors.

Run a co-op movement with other stores in their area. If don't know if this could work, but if stores are struggling to sell an entire range of minis, perhaps store A could stock X, and Store B could stop Y.

There are a ton of good ideas out there to let FLGS thrive.

 Yodhrin wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

That model for a store has been tried and has failed ( charging to play, food and drinks) because if gamers aren't going to pay full price for product, they won't pay for a table, food or drinks. I've seen it happen time and again. Gamers would leave and go to 7-11 fo $1 hot dogs. This is why pool halls eventually failed...people would rather play at home or a cheap bar than support the pool hall through beer and food purchases.

The greed of gamers always amazes me. They want their toys as cheap as possible, but won't support the venues that provide places to play. The "entitlement" attitude saddens me.

You understand that comments like this make you look ridiculous considering it's being proved wrong every week of the year in the UK & Europe and has been for decades, yeah? Clubs are not free, people either pay a membership or they pay-to-play every time they show up - I seriously doubt American gamers are so uniquely "greedy" and "entitled" that a similar model can't work in stores, or if it genuinely can't that they would rather let their local communities die than set up a club of their own elsewhere.

You may recall that the US was founded by not wanting to pay taxes, the only one of which that was actually being enforced was levied as a response to a costly war prompted by the colonists doing the exactly what their colonial overlords told them not to do. So yeah, the US has an odd relationship with the "tax" or "fee" concepts as a cultural thing. Also probably "accountability" can be tossed in there, but I find that's just a general human thing.

Back on topic, that's only shifting the "can't compete" bar elsewhere; now instead of being unable to compete with online retailers they can't compete with local convenience stores where I can buy a 64oz. soda for $2 versus even $.50 for a 12oz. can; that's still ugly consumer math and banning outside food/drink is going to be unpopular and selling non-packaged snacks (e.g. - hot dogs or the like) could entail getting a restaurant license in some localities. Most of the game stores I can think of are within easy walking distance of either a convenience store or a supermarket, so from my own anecdata it would appear that concession sales are unlikely to keep anything afloat here because that's already a crowded marketplace; it's a nice supplementary money stream but it's not going to be able to support much (though it's an indictment that many stores don't even look for the minor revenue bump). I'm not sure if the environment in the UK/Europe is radically different there, most of my international travels have been within the Western Hemisphere.

So too would be paying for table space; it used to be free and now it isn't? Bollocks to that! IF it was accompanied by a drop in product price in-store, it might have a chance but it's doubtful that every manufacturer would agree to that. I know I personally stopped shopping at store because they had such a policy and would not even let you in the room with the tables if you weren't a member. Sure, there's a world where it makes sense, but in 2001 when selling GW at full MSRP and the fee was fairly high (I recall thinking that was a couple of boxes of troops), it really just encouraged me to not shop there at all as I'd rather have my own table, my own terrain and my own food/drink. Granted, I'm far more of a collector than I am a gamer, so others would clearly view it differently. However, it'd be a massive amount of marketing to make that change palatable, and I think the general consensus is many LGS struggle at that so I can understand their unwillingness.

As you say though, the world marches on regardless, and the genie isn't going to go back into the bottle any time soon.

General Hobbs wrote:

That model for a store has been tried and has failed ( charging to play, food and drinks) because if gamers aren't going to pay full price for product, they won't pay for a table, food or drinks. I've seen it happen time and again. Gamers would leave and go to 7-11 fo $1 hot dogs. This is why pool halls eventually failed...people would rather play at home or a cheap bar than support the pool hall through beer and food purchases.

The greed of gamers always amazes me. They want their toys as cheap as possible, but won't support the venues that provide places to play. The "entitlement" attitude saddens me.

The first game store I worked at 20? 15? years ago used to run Mechwarrior tournaments. Players would order cases from someplace with a 30% discount, then show up and play and win prize money etc from the store...and the store owner was like, why am I supporting other businesses with my tournaments and tables? and Mechwarrior Monday became Magic Monday. The same thing eventually happened with 40K. They eventually dropped the lines because sales were so low.

When I worked in the industry, time and again we saw the same thing happen and heard the same complaints from FLGS's, that they could not compete with online discounters.

Well, you make a good argument man! Gamers are entitled, greedy and selfish, so what? they will lose their FLGS. Again, won't be the end of the world. If my FLGS went out of business tomorrow I would still be able to get in more games than i really have time for. Find a group of gamers, pay for a space to have a club, or do it in your homes.

Asking gamers to treat a business like it's a charity, and telling them they have a duty to patronize it, is perhaps a noble idea, but it will ultimately fail. Companies can prop up those retailers by using the inquisition to ferret out who is selling discounted online, but that will ultimately fail too because the one game company that does will be a cheaper more accessible game, and people will always find a way around it.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

That model for a store has been tried and has failed ( charging to play, food and drinks) because if gamers aren't going to pay full price for product, they won't pay for a table, food or drinks. I've seen it happen time and again. Gamers would leave and go to 7-11 fo $1 hot dogs. This is why pool halls eventually failed...people would rather play at home or a cheap bar than support the pool hall through beer and food purchases.

The greed of gamers always amazes me. They want their toys as cheap as possible, but won't support the venues that provide places to play. The "entitlement" attitude saddens me.

You understand that comments like this make you look ridiculous considering it's being proved wrong every week of the year in the UK & Europe and has been for decades, yeah? Clubs are not free, people either pay a membership or they pay-to-play every time they show up - I seriously doubt American gamers are so uniquely "greedy" and "entitled" that a similar model can't work in stores, or if it genuinely can't that they would rather let their local communities die than set up a club of their own elsewhere.

You may recall that the US was founded by not wanting to pay taxes, the only one of which that was actually being enforced was levied as a response to a costly war prompted by the colonists doing the exactly what their colonial overlords told them not to do. So yeah, the US has an odd relationship with the "tax" or "fee" concepts as a cultural thing. Also probably "accountability" can be tossed in there, but I find that's just a general human thing.

Back on topic, that's only shifting the "can't compete" bar elsewhere; now instead of being unable to compete with online retailers they can't compete with local convenience stores where I can buy a 64oz. soda for $2 versus even $.50 for a 12oz. can; that's still ugly consumer math and banning outside food/drink is going to be unpopular and selling non-packaged snacks (e.g. - hot dogs or the like) could entail getting a restaurant license in some localities. Most of the game stores I can think of are within easy walking distance of either a convenience store or a supermarket, so from my own anecdata it would appear that concession sales are unlikely to keep anything afloat here because that's already a crowded marketplace; it's a nice supplementary money stream but it's not going to be able to support much (though it's an indictment that many stores don't even look for the minor revenue bump). I'm not sure if the environment in the UK/Europe is radically different there, most of my international travels have been within the Western Hemisphere.

So too would be paying for table space; it used to be free and now it isn't? Bollocks to that! IF it was accompanied by a drop in product price in-store, it might have a chance but it's doubtful that every manufacturer would agree to that. I know I personally stopped shopping at store because they had such a policy and would not even let you in the room with the tables if you weren't a member. Sure, there's a world where it makes sense, but in 2001 when selling GW at full MSRP and the fee was fairly high (I recall thinking that was a couple of boxes of troops), it really just encouraged me to not shop there at all as I'd rather have my own table, my own terrain and my own food/drink. Granted, I'm far more of a collector than I am a gamer, so others would clearly view it differently. However, it'd be a massive amount of marketing to make that change palatable, and I think the general consensus is many LGS struggle at that so I can understand their unwillingness.

As you say though, the world marches on regardless, and the genie isn't going to go back into the bottle any time soon.

In my experience, a lot of FLGS operate with a common courtesy rule. For example, you turn up for a game at a FLGS, but don't buy anything.

You get your game, but the owner still has his bills to pay. In this situation, most people are happy to hand over 1-2 dollars to help the store owner.

Seems very reasonable. Personally, I would feel bad if I turned up, had a game, but contributed zero to the store owner.

To be honest my FLGS, when I can get to it, is basically for paint and impulse purchases of $50 or less. Anything more and I just order it online.

That said if I go in for a game/event or what have you then I normally wind up spending around $20 at the store outside of the entry fee as a thank you for hosting whatever it is I'm attending.

The other thing about "delaying" orders to online retailers, those retailers can just factor in that delay when they restock/order.

I'm sure places like MM are smart enough to forecast, to some degree, what they are going to run out of ahead of time and just calculate in the delay.

Then the only thing this would really affect, would be the newest releases.

 Meade wrote:


Well, you make a good argument man! Gamers are entitled, greedy and selfish, so what? they will lose their FLGS. Again, won't be the end of the world. If my FLGS went out of business tomorrow I would still be able to get in more games than i really have time for. Find a group of gamers, pay for a space to have a club, or do it in your homes.

Asking gamers to treat a business like it's a charity, and telling them they have a duty to patronize it, is perhaps a noble idea, but it will ultimately fail. Companies can prop up those retailers by using the inquisition to ferret out who is selling discounted online, but that will ultimately fail too because the one game company that does will be a cheaper more accessible game, and people will always find a way around it.

If all the LGS in town closed down I don't think there would be any place left to play. The LGS in the area has been open for so long that gaming clubs outside the store never became a thing, and there's just no affordable meeting space for clubs. The clubs that do exist generally have to work on the "Charity" model. Nobody will pay dues, so they have to rely on meeting at a local restaurant or related store where they're expected to buy something at every meeting to justify the club being allowed to use the space.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Like I said earlier, a lot of bookshops went under, and Amazon got blamed, but the good bookshops thrived, and offer things that the big boys could never offer.

If FLGS want to survive they could:

Run painting and terrain tutorials.

Run tournaments and events (which most do)

Sell food (which most probably do)

Invite games designers over for events, just like bookshops do with authors.

Run a co-op movement with other stores in their area. If don't know if this could work, but if stores are struggling to sell an entire range of minis, perhaps store A could stock X, and Store B could stop Y.

There are a ton of good ideas out there to let FLGS thrive.

My game store does all of this except the painting and terrain tutorials. However, I pop in and paint on miniature gaming days, and have a lot of ogling over my paint jobs and I explain how I do them. So...maybe that counts?

Anyway, I pay in my store, because he has that kind of community. We have multiple game designers who are regulars, including the guy who made Nevermore and Cuthroat Caverns over at Smirk and Dagger Games. So yeah, my store is definitely one of the ones "doing it right". And when the owner found he couldn't get discounts to get the Knight Models Marvel game line, he sent me online for faster and less expensive results. My store rocks. It's one that's worth supporting.

Duplicate post

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
In my experience, a lot of FLGS operate with a common courtesy rule. For example, you turn up for a game at a FLGS, but don't buy anything.

You get your game, but the owner still has his bills to pay. In this situation, most people are happy to hand over 1-2 dollars to help the store owner.

Seems very reasonable. Personally, I would feel bad if I turned up, had a game, but contributed zero to the store owner.

Indeed, when I actually gamed in a store, I would typically buy something. During a special event, it would often be a big something. Common courtesy is a lot like common sense though; if it were actually common we wouldn't have nearly as many problems in the world.

As long as people who order online don't complain if the FLGS they play at shuts down.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
In my experience, a lot of FLGS operate with a common courtesy rule. For example, you turn up for a game at a FLGS, but don't buy anything.

You get your game, but the owner still has his bills to pay. In this situation, most people are happy to hand over 1-2 dollars to help the store owner.

Seems very reasonable. Personally, I would feel bad if I turned up, had a game, but contributed zero to the store owner.

Indeed, when I actually gamed in a store, I would typically buy something. During a special event, it would often be a big something. Common courtesy is a lot like common sense though; if it were actually common we wouldn't have nearly as many problems in the world.

True words. I never felt the need to splash out big time whenever I had a game at a store, but a few dollars here and there never hurt, and for the store owner, cash in hand, probably doesn't count towards his tax bill. It's a win win for all


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Like I said earlier, a lot of bookshops went under, and Amazon got blamed, but the good bookshops thrived, and offer things that the big boys could never offer.

If FLGS want to survive they could:

Run painting and terrain tutorials.

Run tournaments and events (which most do)

Sell food (which most probably do)

Invite games designers over for events, just like bookshops do with authors.

Run a co-op movement with other stores in their area. If don't know if this could work, but if stores are struggling to sell an entire range of minis, perhaps store A could stock X, and Store B could stop Y.

There are a ton of good ideas out there to let FLGS thrive.

My game store does all of this except the painting and terrain tutorials. However, I pop in and paint on miniature gaming days, and have a lot of ogling over my paint jobs and I explain how I do them. So...maybe that counts?

Anyway, I pay in my store, because he has that kind of community. We have multiple game designers who are regulars, including the guy who made Nevermore and Cuthroat Caverns over at Smirk and Dagger Games. So yeah, my store is definitely one of the ones "doing it right". And when the owner found he couldn't get discounts to get the Knight Models Marvel game line, he sent me online for faster and less expensive results. My store rocks. It's one that's worth supporting.

Sounds like a pretty good store, and one which will thrive and prosper for a long time by the sounds of things.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As long as people who order online don't complain if the FLGS they play at shuts down.

You're implying that the person ordering online plays at a store at all.

 Rainyday wrote:
. The LGS in the area has been open for so long that gaming clubs outside the store never became a thing, and there's just no affordable meeting space for clubs.

Within a month a club will have been started and a suitable meeting space will have been found because if this doesn't happen no one will be playing games (outside of close friends in their houses). Some people may give up but others will forge ahead and eventually bring back some of the people who gave up and new gamers will start to be attracted through social media and suddenly the lack of the local shop no longer matters.

If there is a sufficiently large gaming population to support a shop it can definitely support a club.

Here's how the concept of a game store can change. These guys ran a kickstarter then opened a gaming area in my area. They have several ways to pay for the time and space that you take (membership, snacks, soft drinks and beer, sale of board games). You pay a fee and have access to a large number of board/tabletop games. I don't know how successful they are/will continue to be but it's an interesting spin on the tired old idea of (F)LGS.

http://lootandxp.com/

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As long as people who order online don't complain if the FLGS they play at shuts down.

You're implying that the person ordering online plays at a store at all.

If they weren't using the FLGS, then they wouldn't be complaining would they?

In case you guys missed it:

Chaosorc.com responded to Privateer Press pretty much immediately after their tantrum by discounting all PP items 30% off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As long as people who order online don't complain if the FLGS they play at shuts down.

You're implying that the person ordering online plays at a store at all.

If they weren't using the FLGS, then they wouldn't be complaining would they?

I'm just catching the tail end of you guy's particular discussion but I'd like to point out again.. not all of us have LGS, friendly or otherwise.

And some of us have extremely unfriendly local stores unless we're their chosen ones on the card-game-booster-pack grind diet. :-p

This comment from privateer press is ignorant and makes no sense.

Miniature Market has online sales, bit is also a physical brick and mortar FLGS where people can purchase product and play.

Their online sales are discounted versus their store sales because online sales have lower overhead...but they are going to a brick and mortar store that has people playing their game at the stores location, so the whole comment about little meaning contact with the audience as well as every other comment is pointless and painfully ignorant.

They are a brick and mortar store, you can buy online from them at a discount or in the store. You can opt to pick up your online purchases at their store even. It is there decision to sell items at the prices they do. Every comment from PP about them being a parasitic online retailer only is incorrect.

That some LGS cannot sale product when online sales can shows that the product costs too much, or rather the LGS are bad at business.

Cost of these products is relatively high, if there is a channel where you can purchase product at a discount many people will buy from that channel to some % of their purchases. LGS that offer discounts will see increase profits from increased sales if they can make it worthwhile to buy product from them. An example, Legions Games in Pittsburgh, PA offers 20% if you pre order new release items. This puts them in the range of online retailers for the price, so they generate a lot of business by selling pre orders then get people who decide to impulse buy something at normal MSRP while they are making said pre-order or picking it up. I have seen other stores do similar models. Some stores offer monthly coupons that let people get a box set at 20% off, you again get people in to buy said box set and there is a good chance they will pick up something else on impulse.

Most LGS are bad at business, and many people who are online retailers are actually good at business. The problem isn't the online retailers, its the LGS that do not know how to create a profit stream off an over priced product. Which of course can be tied back to the cost of the product.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As long as people who order online don't complain if the FLGS they play at shuts down.

You're implying that the person ordering online plays at a store at all.

If they weren't using the FLGS, then they wouldn't be complaining would they?

I suppose you're right.

I skimmed through the thread and didn't see this thought. Apologies if this has been rehashed over and over.

I tend to purchase online and play almost exclusively with friends at our places. We have several FLGSs within easy driving range. Why would I possibly want to pay 20-50% more for a product in a store if I'm not planning on taking advantage of any of their value add services. The only reason I'd pay more is if I need the product TODAY and then I'm really paying extra for the convenience and short acquisition time.

In other words... why shouldn't the online retailers be cheaper? They're providing a lesser product. A $50 product at an FLGS comes with hobby advice, gaming tables, a gaming community, etc... and you get it NOW. All of these things have value. Charging that same $50 for the same product online, but without all the free extras makes for a much worse value proposition. The online retailers wouldn't be able to compete.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As long as people who order online don't complain if the FLGS they play at shuts down.

Lots of us don't play in stores though! I'm primarily a hobbyist/painter, and not a tournament player. The odd game a month I play is going to be in my home.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Honestly, I don't think OLGS-only buyers and FLGS customers can be reconciled on this. As long as OLGS can sell at maximum discount, that's all that matters. After all, OLGS is sticking up for the poor old consumer. That's their sole concern with their practices.

This is the same line of logic that people use when they dismiss FLGS customers/FLGSs.

I can be reconciled easily. I buy more stuff from the FLGS than from online, but I have reasons for loyalty to both. The FLGS is great for browsing, asking questions, seeing new games and products and for making impulse purchases, like Bones, WGF boxes, blisters or local clearance. MM and deep dis counters give me the opportunity to buy games that are either risky unknowns or definitely not worth their asking price, and I know my order will be shipped quickly with any problems taken care of with utmost professionalism. Either way, the service I receive is what keeps me coming back with the percentage of discount only determining which locations I purchase specific items.

Privateer Press is clearly trying to screw me over as a customer by removing my option to buy their products at a reasonable price.

The problem I have with this, and the FFG one, and the original one done by GW (anyone remember before they started this when you could get Games Workshop online for 40%? Pepperidge Farm Remembers....) is that they use the FLGS cop out to explain their issues away. I rarely game at any of my LGS (LGS instead of FLGS because several are just not friendly) because we have gaming groups and play a lot at libraries churches and friends houses. I have personally seen at least 4 LGS close in the last 10 years I've lived here, and the constant explosion of newer, more expensive gaming stores always trying something new, ala http://lootandxp.com/ (process that did not work for another store in the area). Locally, I'm not used to discounts because they don't exist, in fact many stores charge 105% of MSRP. I still buy quite a few items locally because I can be a compulsive buyer, but our tournament scene is not usually 5$ or even 10$, more often it's 15$-20$ for monthly tournaments with little to no prizes. I see no reason to support these stores so if I can plan ahead I buy online, usually at a discount. In the current explosion of games and awesome miniatures being produced right now, I see no reason to continue to support what is quickly turning into another Games Workshop. If any of our flgs wanted to drum up business, they would either get better customer service or discount in store, none of which do the latter, and few of which does the former. For things like X-wing, I can just wait for a coupon to Barnes & Noble which lets me get ships for 30-35% off any ways.

As far as Warmahordes go, there are so many great games and miniatures up and coming right now, it just means we switch to another game. They certainly didn't have any markets cornered.

 Kriswall wrote:
Apologies if this has been rehashed over and over.

Apology accepted. Suffice it to say, many of us are not happy with publishers passing on the cost to us, folks who do not play at the LGS, of using the LGS as a marketing touch point .

 Meade wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Meade wrote:
...Hell, i can even play xwing at my local starbucks. it's not hard.

As a reformed game evangelist, I will say that this may be just a slight bit harder than 'not hard'.
But I would seriously love to see photos of X-Wing being played at Starbucks especially if you can get multiple games going.
If you/your family happen to own said Starbucks, points will obviously have to be deducted.

Ok fair enough, Well kind of like a starbucks (starbucks coffee), but technically a barnes and nobles. Of course they also do sell the product in their store... all you have to do is buy some coffee and ask nicely they will let you play. Does that qualify as 'hard'? I've done it several times in two separate locations. multiple games, well if you took over the entire store maybe, but i guess that depends on the location and how busy they are.

Privateer was being silly. People play board games all the time in Starbucks or especially in big book stores. My Borders used to host Scrabble tournaments every week even though we didn't sell scrabble. Customers who spend a few hours in a cafe are statistically guaranteed to buy something, and if they start bringing friends to your store or your cafe, all the better.

I've seen people play MtG and DnD board games in fast food establishments, parks and all kinds of places. Why would anyone think X-Wing is magically difficult to play on a large table (or two stalls pushed together)?

I have played a board game (specifically, go) at Starbucks on multiple occasions. No hassle at all.