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In regard to the models, I think that the problems with the models are that they don't have a face. They are just walking armours that we don't know what lies underneath.

The problem with this however is if we remove that armour we get closer to the Empire's design. Losing armour in place for more personality is what made the Empire who they are in the first place.

So, the natural thing to say to that is "keep the armour, and remove the helmets." Now the problem has changed to it is no longer realistic, why would important soldiers, like the squad's Primes remove their helmets? People have this problem in 40k in regard to SM Sergeants, so you shouldn't bring this theme into the Stormcast ranks. It would also bring more ties in that Stormcast = Fantasy SM.

This is what lead me to the opinion that the massive amounts of armour and "facelessness" is actually a good design choice. Stormcast helmets are moulded in the shape of a face as we all know. This could be used in several ways:
- Hiding emotions of the face like pain or horror.
- Using it as a scare tactic, because if you can't see the face, you aren't able to see any emotion from them while fighting.

If you look at it from that stand point, the fact that the models have no character are because of actual tactics used in battle. If you don't know what your opponent even looks like, you can't give them human emotions when fighting them. Fighting someone without a face would just be as horrifying as fighting Daemons, because of their lack of emotion.

I see the Stormcast as GW getting back to their roots of stealing everything from Moorcock. Their concept of Chaos and mutation is directly stolen from there, and Moorcock had the forces of Order as big part of his cosmology.

The faceless, uniform Stormcast are a great stand in for the forces of Order. I wouldn't have minded them being integrated into the old setting at all really. I just find them a bit pricey for what you get, and since the Chaos Barbarians in the core set are outscaled compared to what I already own (Marauders and so on) I am not that interested in getting the set.

Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

Au contraire mon frère. Storytelling has expectations, not rules. Taking fantasy as an example, you can read a bunch of fantasy written before Tolkien, and even Howard, and find examples like Flash Gordon, Wizard of Oz, Doc Savage, John Carter, the Lost World, From Earth to the Moon, and so on. Many of these works, such as Flash Gordon in which people have sword fights on the wings of their spaceship in deep space, are harder for modern audiences to accept due to increased cynicism, but it doesn't mean that they are wrong. They didn't break any storytelling rules. 'Tis the audience that changed, not the nature of storytelling.

I think it is important to keep an open minded about these things. Putting things in boxes is a good way to end up trapped in one yourself.

I fear you are completely missing the point. The point is not how much weird is a given world for modern tastes, but how much this world is coherent with itself. If the writer gives or describes "rues" of this world, the reader keeps is immersion (but can or cannot enjoy it, in base of the tastes). But if such rules are dumb and contradictory, the immersion is broken. Sometimes this is played on, like in some kind of parodies (like the movie Spaceballs or the Space Wolves from 5th edition).

How much the universe described itself is well detailed, coherent, immersive, creates (or not) the same effect and this is due to the skill of the writer. Funny how you cite Tolkien: Tolkien created an universe well described (at least in the land focus of the story) up to the languages talked (the trigger was actually the language creation) and this world and its character a good example of something relatable.

So no, I will not lower my standards to be "open minded". Eat crap is not being "open minded".

Why are you so insecure in your tastes that you feel the need to insult other people for theirs?

GW is treating its customers with contempt. I see people eating happily the aforementioned crap. I am not insulting anyone. I am not saying "you are dumb because you eat crap". I am saying "stop eating GW's crap, is time to send them a signal".
If we keep buying their stuff even if the quality is so low, they will keep treating us with contempt. And mind, I am a crap eater also. I realised it these days.

I cant seem how the quality is low, you can argue the price is high but the models are good, the game and story are just not to your liking, if you feel GW treat you with contempt then you dont have to buy the stuff you dont have to post in a topic about liking storm casts telling people they eat crap and to stop buying said crap thats just not nice, this opinion is about you not about the people enjoying it, openly discussing the reason you dont like it and what can be done to improve it is fine, just saying it crap and by connection linking peoples choices to that is not kind. I hope you are as discerning about all the big companies that really are asses and really dont treat there customers, workforce or the world well, when you buy all the more important things like cloths and food.

On topic I really like the facelessness of SE and hope its a theme, i think they pigeon holed them selves a little by making them too fancy lol
and now they seem generic because you can only bling so much but the avatar of war angel type theme is cool imo. I personally wish they where even more the automatomatic war machines than they already are. I do worry that i cant forsee much future for evolution of the line with out just changing what is good about them tho.

I am a fan of AoS but I don't like Stormcast Eternals at all. They feel very different to Space Marines despite their similarities. I don't like the Stormcast models or fluff.

When playing AoS and thinking up stories of my soldiers I like to imagine the Stormcast to be cruel and cold in their justice and terrifying from a normal man to encounter - I also imagine them to be near mythical and so not involved in any of my stories except for far flung rumours - lastly I imagine Sigmar to be a petty and cruel God, prone to jealousies and ambition and soley focused on revenge while he leaves the ceslestial realm to rot and fracture under its own devices and internal rivalries.

Kaiyanwang wrote:

I fear you are completely missing the point. The point is not how much weird is a given world for modern tastes, but how much this world is coherent with itself. If the writer gives or describes "rues" of this world, the reader keeps is immersion (but can or cannot enjoy it, in base of the tastes). But if such rules are dumb and contradictory, the immersion is broken. Sometimes this is played on, like in some kind of parodies (like the movie Spaceballs or the Space Wolves from 5th edition).

Which was my point. The Wizard of Oz series has no rules, for example. There's a character in one of the books that has a hall of heads that she can remove and exchange at will. Why? Don't know. How? No idea. Is it awesome? You bet. It is fantasy after all. Nothing wrong with it being fantastic.

How much the universe described itself is well detailed, coherent, immersive, creates (or not) the same effect and this is due to the skill of the writer. Funny how you cite Tolkien: Tolkien created an universe well described (at least in the land focus of the story) up to the languages talked (the trigger was actually the language creation) and this world and its character a good example of something relatable.

I'm not going to go into all the flaws that Tolkien made in his world design, but suffice to say, if you really thought about it, you'd find that Tolkien's world is just about as realistic as Oz. It gets a pass largely because you don't really think about it. And that's fine. But it makes a poor argument for "grounded" fantasy.

So no, I will not lower my standards to be "open minded". Eat crap is not being "open minded".

Well, you know what they say. Opinions are like donkey-caves. Everybody's got one.

GW is treating its customers with contempt. I see people eating happily the aforementioned crap. I am not insulting anyone. I am not saying "you are dumb because you eat crap". I am saying "stop eating GW's crap, is time to send them a signal".

It's time to send a signal that they should stop making the kind of fantasy I like and instead make the kind of fantasy you like because somehow, that's more respectful towards me? Opinions and donkey-caves indeed.

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:


I cant seem how the quality is low, you can argue the price is high but the models are good, the game and story are just not to your liking, if you feel GW treat you with contempt then you dont have to buy the stuff you dont have to post in a topic about liking storm casts telling people they eat crap and to stop buying said crap thats just not nice, this opinion is about you not about the people enjoying it, openly discussing the reason you dont like it and what can be done to improve it is fine, just saying it crap and by connection linking peoples choices to that is not kind. I hope you are as discerning about all the big companies that really are asses and really dont treat there customers, workforce or the world well, when you buy all the more important things like cloths and food.

The models? We should not go again on the "Fyreslayers" tiptoeing, shall we? And I stopped. Right now I buy lotr stuff on ebay. I rediscovered it with great pleasure. I just ignore MattWardian stuff like the shamans.
I am spiteful toward GW, sorry if you felt offended (and this is my problem, failure in communication is from my part).

On topic I really like the facelessness of SE and hope its a theme, i think they pigeon holed them selves a little by making them too fancy lol
and now they seem generic because you can only bling so much but the avatar of war angel type theme is cool imo. I personally wish they where even more the automatomatic war machines than they already are. I do worry that i cant forsee much future for evolution of the line with out just changing what is good about them tho.

I actually like this. Kinda like the Inevitables in DnD. But away from the old world. Whooops, too late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

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Which was my point. The Wizard of Oz series has no rules, for example. There's a character in one of the books that has a hall of heads that she can remove and exchange at will. Why? Don't know. How? No idea. Is it awesome? You bet. It is fantasy after all. Nothing wrong with it being fantastic.

Again, this is not the point. WoO is an universe in which beheading is not lethal for an individual. Or eggs are lethal for another. But if the same individual eats an egg and survives, the author must give us an explaination or the suspension of disbelief is broken. A good author cares about this. What I said is valid for good characters and what else.

I'm not going to go into all the flaws that Tolkien made in his world design, but suffice to say, if you really thought about it, you'd find that Tolkien's world is just about as realistic as Oz. It gets a pass largely because you don't really think about it. And that's fine. But it makes a poor argument for "grounded" fantasy.

Nothing is perfect. Even our reality can be weird at times. But there are differences in effort and detail from the part of an author. Some people see them.

Well, you know what they say. Opinions are like donkey-caves. Everybody's got one.

Witty comeback! Right to the point! But yes, quality do exist and AoS has none. No in models, "ruleset", nothing. And be upset at GW (and NOT at those who like it) is normal.

It's time to send a signal that they should stop making the kind of fantasy I like and instead make the kind of fantasy you like because somehow, that's more respectful towards me? Opinions and donkey-caves indeed.

You could have the same AoS I would like with a rule framework. In this way, I would play with and you without. But GW convinced you that the lack of a ruleset is not them being lazy/cheap/disregarding the customer. Is a new shining example of modern design! Not.
For you all of this is ok. This time. Next time? Who knows.

 Bottle wrote:
I am a fan of AoS but I don't like Stormcast Eternals at all. They feel very different to Space Marines despite their similarities. I don't like the Stormcast models or fluff.

When playing AoS and thinking up stories of my soldiers I like to imagine the Stormcast to be cruel and cold in their justice and terrifying from a normal man to encounter - I also imagine them to be near mythical and so not involved in any of my stories except for far flung rumours - lastly I imagine Sigmar to be a petty and cruel God, prone to jealousies and ambition and soley focused on revenge while he leaves the ceslestial realm to rot and fracture under its own devices and internal rivalries.

Now if GW started with that in the starter box set for Age of Sigmar, I would be more interested in them and maybe have bought some books to read more up on them. I like this very much, I think I will have to use this as my basis for when I finally get to putting together my Sigmarines.

Davor wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I am a fan of AoS but I don't like Stormcast Eternals at all. They feel very different to Space Marines despite their similarities. I don't like the Stormcast models or fluff.

When playing AoS and thinking up stories of my soldiers I like to imagine the Stormcast to be cruel and cold in their justice and terrifying from a normal man to encounter - I also imagine them to be near mythical and so not involved in any of my stories except for far flung rumours - lastly I imagine Sigmar to be a petty and cruel God, prone to jealousies and ambition and soley focused on revenge while he leaves the ceslestial realm to rot and fracture under its own devices and internal rivalries.

Now if GW started with that in the starter box set for Age of Sigmar, I would be more interested in them and maybe have bought some books to read more up on them. I like this very much, I think I will have to use this as my basis for when I finally get to putting together my Sigmarines.

But Stormcast have to be as ridiculously 'good' as Khorne are bloodcrazed, or Nurgle are diseased. They are paragons, flawless shining beacons of humanity. Saviours of the mortal realms, forged from their' own sons and daughters by a loving God.
Except...
They're untested. Until the attack on the Brimstone Peninsula, no Stormcast had ever wielded a weapon in anger against a genuine foe.
They're unsure. Sigmar has told them they're immortal, but dying still hurts. And those who have been re-reforged...? They're different, and remaining Stormcast can tell. But Sigmar wouldn't lie to them, surely?
They're still human enough to be jealous, to be proud, to be hateful.
And Sigmar.
Was handing Chaos' collective arse to it solo, until he lost Ghal Maraz.
Decided to do a runner, turned Azyrheim into a colossal refugee camp, and killed anyone who didn't play happy families, then let the mortal realms suffer while he built a big army of Ubermensch to fight the enemies that bested him. Even when he got Ghal Maraz back, he decided to give it to the Celestant Prime instead of picking up where he left off.

None of this is conjecture, it's all been written, and I'm not half way through the BL stuff yet.

Well, another point to be argued is that the Flandersization of the various chaos factions is also a problem with GW's recent fluff.

Still, your summary did pique my interest a little more- the idea of them as new, untested and unsure is pretty cool. But sadly, the models give none of that away. I'd like some way to access that background, which is more compelling, without having to purchase overpriced BL books.

I still think Gold was a *terrible* idea for the colour scheme primary colour scheme. Hallowed Knights (Silver) photograph and look better because the contrast is easier. But meh.

As for the models... I understand why people don't like them, but I kinda like them being 'faceless'. Like statues. They get reforged to a standard 'blueprint' I guess.

Now what *will* be interesting is... what happens when you get a mass of veteran Stormcast who haven't died at all? Chance to properly adjust to who/what they are, etc. without Sigmar hitting the reset button?

I like the faceless aspect of the models, though I think it makes them more like automatons than characters.

It can't be said that the minis have much in the way of "character" , y'know?

But that can work. There's a place in fiction for automatons. There's just a wee disconnect between what's being said in the fluff (apparently! I haven't read a lot) and the models.

Okay, I'm way too much in the deep end of the conjecture spectrum, but what you guys say about Stormcasts and Chaos... Maybe that's kind of the point

Let's take Stormcasts first. On the outside, the look orderly, neat and controlled, true exemplars of what Sigmar, a god of Order, believes to be the best for humanity. Only issue is, they're really not. Each of them are still human, or at least somewhat mortal, and they have fears and anger and lusts still. So, for them to be perfect, they have to permanently suppress their human sides, until it goes away through several martyr deaths. They never die, but slowly corode away, becoming what Sigmar wants them to be while losing individuality.

Meanwhile, each Chaos believer seems like he's a complete mess outwards, ruined and crazed; butthe thing is, Chaos does not have a problem with indulging in humanity's most base desires. So, to any Order-alligned person, Chaos like Bloodbound are maniacs... But really, they're not only allowed to act human, but rewarded for it. So it's the exact opposite; Chaos wants a horde of believers, each wierder than the next.

I'm reading too much into this, but if this fits, GW might unintentionally made something awesome; something they can't do with Marines, because really, Marines havemore options and personality than most Chaos models.

Also, Sigmar being a petty god? He kinda just took the body of an Emperor for himself and erased said Emperors personality just like that, while allowing a world to die while he was trying to get his favourite hammer back from his rival... So yeah, he's petty.

It would be nice to see some explanations of that sort of stuff from GW writers.

Petty and fickle gods are something that most real world religions have lots of, so its probably one of the more realistic things in AoS
I totally agree with gold being a poor choice for the main color. It looks good in person but really does not photo well.

Love stormcast, lol. Pumped for the order alliance book tmrw. Picked up chaos today, love having the stats on paper.

I don't have any pictures but I feel Stormcast Eternals with good original colours schemes look a lot better than gold scheme, which puts me off them completely.

Other color schemes are much better than the poster boys, the Hammers of Sigmar, imho. Hallowed Knights and some of the darker schemes look much better

NMM gold works well for the Stormcasts, I must admit my view on them changed when I saw this scheme. White and silver fit better than gold though- it feels too corny with all gold all the time

Haven't followed much of the AoS fluff, but I'd like to imagine units of stormcast come to fight when gaks gotten real. Outside of that you have to petition Sigmar to have him send a stormcast or two to assist your village, etc. - You need extra help stopping a chaos raid on your village? Better send a messenger to Sigmar asking for a Stormcast to come aide you. The idea of him sending 1 of his champions to small scale affairs feels better to me than sending 25-30+

Adding in some secrecy, they could thunderbolt down a few sigmeters? from said village,etc then walk in- so nobody outside of Azyr knows how the Stormcasts get around.

The generic gold/blue is just really boring. Any other color would make them more interesting.

The idea of a celestial lightning soldier is cool. The face-helmets are really great lets be honest. Are they chunky faceless statues? Yea but all fantasy armies have that and its remedied by just having a small contingency of Stormcast in your Empire army or something.

Its the same with the boring people who play mono-grey knights. Just boring terminator spam. Mix it up and its good.

The gold/blue scheme is appropriate for the Hammers of Sigmar. As the first Stormhost, their colours should match those of Sigmar, and somehow I don't see Sigmar wearing teal armour

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Let's take Stormcasts first. On the outside, the look orderly, neat and controlled, true exemplars of what Sigmar, a god of Order, believes to be the best for humanity. Only issue is, they're really not. Each of them are still human, or at least somewhat mortal, and they have fears and anger and lusts still. So, for them to be perfect, they have to permanently suppress their human sides, until it goes away through several martyr deaths. They never die, but slowly corode away, becoming what Sigmar wants them to be while losing individuality.

From the fluff thus far, this is basically how it works.

Meanwhile, each Chaos believer seems like he's a complete mess outwards, ruined and crazed; butthe thing is, Chaos does not have a problem with indulging in humanity's most base desires. So, to any Order-alligned person, Chaos like Bloodbound are maniacs... But really, they're not only allowed to act human, but rewarded for it. So it's the exact opposite; Chaos wants a horde of believers, each wierder than the next.

I see what you mean, but I think the reality is that these warriors are stripped of their humanity as much as Stormcast, only in the opposite direction. While Stormcast steadily lose their personality, chaos worshipers have certain aspects pushed to inhuman levels while others are diminished. In the end, all of them wind up becoming closer to their god of choice but further from the race/individual they once were.

Also, Sigmar being a petty god? He kinda just took the body of an Emperor for himself and erased said Emperors personality just like that, while allowing a world to die while he was trying to get his favourite hammer back from his rival... So yeah, he's petty.

In the fluff we are seeing some of this, but more so it has portrayed Sigmar with about as much subtlety as his hammer, which is to say next to none. He is a warrior-god and everything he does is seen through that lens for him, even when he is trying not to. His solution to any amount of opposition is more or less destruction, while he tolerates any amount of moral depravity as long as said people stand with him rather than against.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Personally, I think the Tolkien-esque fantasy tropes have been played out and then some.

AoS is fairly Tolkien-ish, all told, it's just zoomed in on a single element of Tolkien. Which is part of the problem - there's no range in AoS. It's a universe whose endless possibilites are talked up in the abstract, but ends up suffocated by the tiny little box of theme, tone and emotion that the actual published fiction operates in.

 Lexington wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Personally, I think the Tolkien-esque fantasy tropes have been played out and then some.

AoS is fairly Tolkien-ish, all told, it's just zoomed in on a single element of Tolkien. Which is part of the problem - there's no range in AoS. It's a universe whose endless possibilites are talked up in the abstract, but ends up suffocated by the tiny little box of theme, tone and emotion that the actual published fiction operates in.

[edit] Nevermind, opinions on the setting as a whole are off-topic; this is supposed to be about Stormcast specifically.

I fell in love with the Stormcast too!!!

I can't stand the lazy cad design of the stormcast and their background is just plain bad, I wouldn't of liked them if they'd been introduced in 8th either.

And that's before you even mention stupid prices £127 for seven models.

There is not much there to like they all got that confused look on their face and the put mold line in the center it makes it look like detail look to them.

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
NMM gold works well for the Stormcasts, I must admit my view on them changed when I saw this scheme. White and silver fit better than gold though- it feels too corny with all gold all the time

That is how I feel. Nice to see maybe I could be on the right track here. Do you or anyone else know of any pics of White, silver or White/silver Stormcasts pics? I would like to see them to see if I can copy them or gives me inspiration to paint mine. I did one in all silver and didn't like it much and stopped there. Would be nice to finish of the rest and maybe buy more if I like what I am doing.

Like this scheme GW put up recently.

I like the look of the models, and could get the starter models for as low as $75 US. BUT looking at the cost of expanding beyond the starter box? Its way too much. Gdub just released a box set of 3 khorne champions for $90. Im sorry thats way too much.

I've been playing Gdub games since the late 90s, so built up a nice collection of models, and only had to suffer slight tweek purchases when a new codex or army book came out. AoS would be the first army purchase I made since maybe to editions ago? Its just way to expensive and I can't justify making a purchase. The starter box cost is good but If prices were like this when I starter the hobby I would have steered clear of it...and this comes from a guy playing for almost 20 years.

coldgaming wrote:
Like this scheme GW put up recently.

Spoiler:

I like the Tempest Lord colour scheme, but I just can't get my head around their shield boss. Looks.. Cartoony? Like a surprised hammer.