Dark Souls Boardgame by Steamforged Games - Kickstarter NOW LIVE!

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**JohnHwangDD**

MaxT wrote:
Discussing the "value" an entire 3 hours in is bonkers anyway in any modern Kickstarter. See where it's at later if you're unsure of the value.

No, it's not when they offer 2 different pledge levels, and the one is far better than the other. That's pretty easy to assess:

a) 33 Retail + FREE shipping
b) 80 Individual + 10 shipping

Maybe they close the 57 GBP gap, maybe not. I'm just thinking they're gouging with that $80 premium over retail.

**Barzam**

I don't really get why they're bothering with the"Retailer Exclusive" stuff. Only a select few get access to them and they aren't really even exclusive since they said they would be available on their webshop. So really, it's just something coming out when the game hits retail. Why even bother showing it or including it? Do they expect early access to certain expansions will be enough to entice retailers to support this? If they do, why not just go with a traditional funding model then?

**Nostromodamus**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
MaxT wrote:
Discussing the "value" an entire 3 hours in is bonkers anyway in any modern Kickstarter. See where it's at later if you're unsure of the value.

No, it's not when they offer 2 different pledge levels, and the one is far better than the other. That's pretty easy to assess:

a) 33 Retail + FREE shipping
b) 80 Individual + 10 shipping

Maybe they close the 57 GBP gap, maybe not. I'm just thinking they're gouging with that $80 premium over retail.

But for option A I have to buy 6 copies of the game and also be a retailer. They're buying at trade pricing and in "bulk". I'd expect retailer pricing to be less.

**AncientSkarbrand**

Wouldn't 33 retail be the case simply to promote the game via retailers? They get early access to promote it, do they not, and also have to buy 6 at once to get them for that price don't they? Perhaps I'm just confused but I was under the impression that they would offer the game to retailers at a lower price than an individual regardless of time of purchase anyways, so really an individual backer is losing nothing and just has the unfortunate knowledge of how little the retailer had to pay in comparison to them. But that's always happening anyways, individuals just don't have the knowledge, no?

The retail exclusive stuff is an incentive for retailers because they can demo more stuff when they get early access and show that the game is supported rather than a one box thing? Also it gives us a sneak preview of what else is going to be available when we want to expand, showing us the game has a future beyond the Kickstarter. Wouldn't retailers want to know they can sell more products for a game system than just the core set, and that it's likely to be supported?

I dunno, just seems like they're trying to keep retailers involved to me. But I'm not too experienced in terms of criticizing the industry. It does seem unnecessarily confusing. If anyone can tell me flaws in my perception I'll very gladly listen as I'm refraining from backing it myself until I understand more about what's going on.

**The Fragile Breath**

Alpharius wrote:
It's really not the 'buxom women' that make KD:M a truly potential awkward experience!

I think this one will eventually 'make sense' to back via KS.

But the targeted ship date? Taylor made for a CNY 2017 delay - add that in now everyone!

Are you implying people are uncomfortable with penis monsters, Alpharius? Unthinkable!

And call me a cynic, but I always add six months to the "target release month". I grabbed an early bird for this, which makes me pretty happy.

**Pacific**

Can someone please tell me why there isn't a Deprived character choice??!?!

Definitely moving very fast!

**Nostromodamus**

Pacific wrote:
Can someone please tell me why there isn't a Deprived character choice??!?!

Definitely moving very fast!

I requested it

**Barzam**

Nah, what this really needs is an exclusive Solaire praising the sun.

**Nostromodamus**

Barzam wrote:
Nah, what this really needs is an exclusive Solaire praising the sun.

Him and Siegmeyer have been requested also

**JohnHwangDD**

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I dunno, just seems like they're trying to keep retailers involved to me.

They are.

On a crowdfunding site.

**Accolade**

Nostromodamus wrote:
Barzam wrote:
Nah, what this really needs is an exclusive Solaire praising the sun.

Him and Siegmeyer have been requested also

Siegmeyer, God yes

**infinite_array**

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I believe the retailer stretch goals has been turned into retailer bonus unlocks, and the graphic of the Last Giant has been removed.

**ced1106**

Accolade wrote:
Backed this one! I'm a big fan of these dark medieval universes like KD:M and DS, and DS is much more up my alley (much lower number of scantily clad buxom women making me feel less akward about showing the models to other people )

Yeah, ol' man-boob scrotum-throat-with-eyeballs is *much* more presentable.

Half a million dollars worth of backers think there's value here. Hope Bandai doesn't have to approve every single model change like a certain other licensor did...!

**overtyrant**

Very happy with everything so far. So what if I have to pick up a couple of models outside the KS, if it keeps retailer's happy and willing to stock the product and get more pledges in then I don't see what the big fuss is about. It's all going fine IMO, but then I'm not one of these people who needs to be updated every second.

**ced1106**

Holy chr*st. The butthurt on BGG about the retailer "exclusives" is amazing. And I think I'll wait a *whole day* for Stronghold to post the SG's before making any conclusions.

Read that Stronghold games planned SG's up to £1M, and they're 1/3 the way there on day one.

**Pacific**

ced1106 wrote:
Accolade wrote:
Backed this one! I'm a big fan of these dark medieval universes like KD:M and DS, and DS is much more up my alley (much lower number of scantily clad buxom women making me feel less akward about showing the models to other people )

Yeah, ol' man-boob scrotum-throat-with-eyeballs is *much* more presentable.

Half a million dollars worth of backers think there's value here. Hope Bandai doesn't have to approve every single model change like a certain other licensor did...!

I think that's probably best not to think about..

**Aeneades**

Stretch goals -

£60,000 UNLOCKED! Pyromancer Player Character
£70,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Dancer Behaviour Cards
£80,000 UNLOCKED! Cleric Player Character
£90,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Executioner Behaviour Cards
£100,000 UNLOCKED! Sorcerer Player Character
£140,000 UNLOCKED! Thief Player Character
£160,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Legendary Weapon Treasure Cards
£180,000 UNLOCKED! Mercenary Player Character
£200,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Lothric Encounter Cards
£220,000 UNLOCKED! The Pursuer Boss
£240,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Anor Londo Encounter Cards
£260,000 UNLOCKED! Deprived Player Character
£280,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Item Treasure Cards
£300,000 UNLOCKED! 3 Firebomb Hollows
£340,000 UNLOCKED! 3 Dancer Heat Up Cards
£360,000 UNLOCKED! 5 Gravestone Models
£380,000 UNLOCKED! 3 Executioner Damaged Cards
£400,000 UNLOCKED! 3 Silver Knight Lancers
£420,000 UNLOCKED! Sir Alonne Boss
£440,000 UNLOCKED! 4 Barrel Models
£460,000 LOCKED! Bonfire Model
£480,000 LOCKED! ???

**alanmckenzie**

Add-On Unlocks that are available to right now to Kickstarter Backers:

£120,000 UNLOCKED! Gaping Dragon +£28
£320,000 UNLOCKED! Black Dragon Kalameet +£28

This could get costly...

**Mymearan**

alanmckenzie wrote:
Add-On Unlocks that are available to right now to Kickstarter Backers:

£120,000 UNLOCKED! Gaping Dragon +£28
£320,000 UNLOCKED! Black Dragon Kalameet +£28

This could get costly...

I... I have to buy both of those. Hopefully they start doing DS2 and DS3 bosses, haven't played those so I could probably talk myself into skipping them

Also it's insane that they're at almost £500,000 already!

**Hanskrampf**

Huh, no renders of the stretchgoals and add-ons?

Right now, I have no drive to add anything to my pledge, because I need visual content. And only two locked stretchgoals...

**Sining**

That's....pretty expensive for 1 model in boardgame plastic.

**Mymearan**

Hanskrampf wrote:
Huh, no renders of the stretchgoals and add-ons?

Most likely scenario: They were caught off-guard and don't have graphics done and approved by Bandai yet. We'll probably see them in the next few days.

**alanmckenzie**

Mymearan wrote:
alanmckenzie wrote:
Add-On Unlocks that are available to right now to Kickstarter Backers:

£120,000 UNLOCKED! Gaping Dragon +£28
£320,000 UNLOCKED! Black Dragon Kalameet +£28

This could get costly...

I... I have to buy both of those.....quote]

Agreed, though I'd really feel better about £28 dragons if we were to get more info on materials, sculptors, construction, etc.

I kind of hope they cap these strech goals at 1m. Maybe start backfilling extra funds into improving/assuring what's already unlocked.

At this stage, with this IP, I'm much more concerned with quality of components over quantity.

**MacMuckles**

I really hope Brolaire is a stretch goal character

**Hanskrampf**

Mymearan wrote:
Hanskrampf wrote:
Huh, no renders of the stretchgoals and add-ons?

Most likely scenario: They were caught off-guard and don't have graphics done and approved by Bandai yet. We'll probably see them in the next few days.

In two days, this KS will most likely have hit 1 Million, and they will be lagging more and more behind with their updates. I really don't understand how they could have been so ill-prepared and only have approved content for up to 90k.

**Mymearan**

alanmckenzie wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
alanmckenzie wrote:
Add-On Unlocks that are available to right now to Kickstarter Backers:

£120,000 UNLOCKED! Gaping Dragon +£28
£320,000 UNLOCKED! Black Dragon Kalameet +£28

This could get costly...

I... I have to buy both of those.....

Agreed, though I'd really feel better about £28 dragons if we were to get more info on materials, sculptors, construction, etc.

I kind of hope they cap these strech goals at 1m. Maybe start backfilling extra funds into improving/assuring what's already unlocked.

At this stage, with this IP, I'm much more concerned with quality of components over quantity.

Well, we know it's PVC made by LudoFact, so the quality will be very high if their previous work is anything to go by.

Hanskrampf wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
Hanskrampf wrote:
Huh, no renders of the stretchgoals and add-ons?

Most likely scenario: They were caught off-guard and don't have graphics done and approved by Bandai yet. We'll probably see them in the next few days.

In two days, this KS will most likely have hit 1 Million, and they will be lagging more and more behind with their updates. I really don't understand how they could have been so ill-prepared and only have approved content for up to 90k.

Yeah... I hope they comment on this soon. Just admit you were caught with your pants down, like Hawk did in ther Dropfleet Commander KS.

**infinite_array**

Well, they've changed the retailer backer unlocks to be dependent on the amount of retailer pledges, which is a great move.

Sining wrote:
That's....pretty expensive for 1 model in boardgame plastic.

I dont't know, if they're scaled to anything near their in game size, those minis are going to be huge.

**Mymearan**

I put in £140 for know, let's see if I'll have to put in even more before this is over... I'll probably spread out my purchases between the campaign itself and the PM.

**alanmckenzie**

From KS comments....

Frank Jaeger 1 minute ago

Wow, wow, wow. This is a bit crazy. Time for me to jump in and clarify a few things from the production side which I can do easier than Steamforged can.

Okay, about the miniatures. SFG has answered, but I am happy to do it again:
Scale will be "heroic", usually 32mm. Bigger would not be good. I know. I know the Gaping Dragon. Wait and see, you will all want it. I know I do!

Those will be PVC miniatures. Of course. And, by the way, yes: Chinese PVC. Since I am not planning on having a conversation with them, I don't care where the PVC was made. China is absolutely top notch when it comes to injection moulding. Now, back @ topic: PVC is the best material for this. Resin is expensive and breaks easily, HIPS is unforgiving when it comes to releasing it from moulds. And: it also breaks easily. Usually it is used for bases and such only. So PVC is not "only PVC", it is "fortunately PVC!". No broken swords, arrowheads or tentacles. As a gamer I'd say: Give me PVC, SFG! Here we go (thumping rhythm starts) ... Gimme PVC, friends at SFG, or you are to blame, if I won't back your game… (Labels: for recording contracts contact my agent).

Miniatures come preassembled. Apart from the fact that SFG said so from the start, I would have tried to convince them of it. I am a gamer, not a model builder. And since one of the minis we are working on consists of at least eleven parts… oh, but I should not say that. Hush, hush, Frank.

Box insert: this question has been raised many hundred comments further down. Let me give you my personal point of view which is NOT SFG's, just to make that clear. So: what you want is a "jack of all trades"-device. Cannot work. If we have an insert it will only work for the retail game version content. Now, if you ever looked at the miniature games that have been made you will see that the storage of minis is actually pretty difficult. I hate to try to get them back into the tray (Zombicide or Blood Rage, for example). My Zombicide minis are in PE bags now. But we are looking into that as well, just need the campaign to be done, pledge manager run and then we can do the fine tuning. The biggest work actually comes *after* the campaign, But the retail version will have some kind of inlay, and all the stretch goals will NOT fit in. The retail game would look really strange with space for expansions and SGs, especially if those become more than the retail version entails. And it does look like that is going to happen...

Cheers
Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT

**His Master's Voice**

So PVC is not "only PVC", it is "fortunately PVC!".

How fortunate. I do like saving money.