Warmachine MK3 incoming

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**Polonius**

TheCustomLime wrote:
And thus PP proves that the best way to get gamers to forget about anti-consumer policies is to wave shinies in front of their faces.

I thought about it, and looking at PP's actions over the last year or so, I think they're trying to actually cash in on their goodwill and community, and bring in more money. PVC infantry are harder to strip than metals, and if they break or miss pieces, there is no bitz service to complete them, which cuts into the secondary market (a huge issue in WM/H). A new edition brings the usual influx of cash from new books, but they also get to sell new cards and warroom decks, by placing new casters in the Battle Boxes they'll sell more of those, and with a reset points cost and rules balance, they can start selling models that haven't moved much in MKII.

The move to cut online discounts doesn't make them money, in fact, it does the opposite, but I think PP is smart enough and data driven enough to know who is buying and why, and a new edition and new organized play support always gets stores more excited to run things.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

TheCustomLime wrote:
And thus PP proves that the best way to get gamers to forget about anti-consumer policies is to wave shinies in front of their faces.

The hobby is buying PP models. Ethics take a back seat.

**novaspike**

MattofWar wrote:
In the end I decided I'm going to take the same approach to this new edition of WM/H as I do to historical miniature games. Not caring about any connection between miniature manufacturer and rules producer.

So if I want to make a Cryx army but don't like mechanithralls made of PVC, I can go get whatever zombie miniatures I want and whatever 40k power fist bitz I want and make my own. There are loads of ways to modify any robot miniature I want to be steam powered and have the right weapons. If I want Nyss Hunters, maybe I'll use Dark Eldar Wyches as the basis of a conversion as I don't like the hobgoblin look of the PP ones. I'll likely get either the printed cards for the faction or the warroom and have the rules all handled.

I don't play in tournaments, so the whole official model thing doesn't matter to me at all. I also think that painting style and consistent basing does more than enough to tie very different miniatures together.

Haha, my Nyss hunters (except Celina) all have dark elder heads. I think they look much better and are still tournament legal.

**AduroT**

novaspike wrote:
MattofWar wrote:
In the end I decided I'm going to take the same approach to this new edition of WM/H as I do to historical miniature games. Not caring about any connection between miniature manufacturer and rules producer.

So if I want to make a Cryx army but don't like mechanithralls made of PVC, I can go get whatever zombie miniatures I want and whatever 40k power fist bitz I want and make my own. There are loads of ways to modify any robot miniature I want to be steam powered and have the right weapons. If I want Nyss Hunters, maybe I'll use Dark Eldar Wyches as the basis of a conversion as I don't like the hobgoblin look of the PP ones. I'll likely get either the printed cards for the faction or the warroom and have the rules all handled.

I don't play in tournaments, so the whole official model thing doesn't matter to me at all. I also think that painting style and consistent basing does more than enough to tie very different miniatures together.

Haha, my Nyss hunters (except Celina) all have dark elder heads. I think they look much better and are still tournament legal.

I've built something like four units of Nyss Hunters with Dark Eldar heads for other people in addition to the unit for myself.

Also as previously mentioned, the Efreet Scout is pretty awesome.

**novaspike**

It's over on the gen. discussion on the PP boards, but according to twitter, page 5 is dead.

Should be relevant here since that came up a few times in this thread.

**malfred**

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-04-13-2016

With the addition of Power Up, every warjack with a functional cortex in its warcaster’s control range (yes, it is control range now) gains a focus point at the start of the Control Phase. The warcaster can then allocate up to two additional focus points to each warjack in its battlegroup. We have found that this one change to the rules has vastly improved the effectiveness of warjacks, making larger battlegroups not only viable but a nightmare for the opposition. No more trying to decide whether you want your warcaster to cast another Arcane Bolt or you want your Charger to run. Now you play with the pedal to the metal at all times!

Not to see it left in the dust, we also took a good long look at the fury mechanics and eventually settled on the addition of Soul Bond, a rule stating that in addition to the fury a warlock leeches each turn, that warlock also can gain up to one additional fury point for each of his light, heavy, and gargantuan warbeasts that have been destroyed or removed from play during the game. It seems warbeasts now continue to serve their masters from the grave, at least for a little while. Soul Bond offsets a lot of the late-game weaknesses in the fury mechanic, keeping your warlock in the game until the bitter end.

Sorry, the souls of lesser warbeasts do not seem to be so potent.

While game changing in their own right, these two new rules are among the many additions we have made to the new editions of HORDES and WARMACHINE. The rules have been streamlined and honed to a razor’s edge.

These are the new rules of engagement.

**Uriels_Flame**

Can we get an update for Pygs? Esquire requires more bacon!

**novaspike**

Mk.3 Update. Pigs are still delicious.

**Uriels_Flame**

Work Blocked - will have to wait until I get home...

**malfred**

And an update from Jason soles

I just wanted to jump in here because I feel like I should have addressed these questions in my Insider. My apologies for neglecting to explain the changes to monstrosities and vectors. Not being warjacks, Cephalyx monstrosities do not benefit from Power Up. Instead, a monstrosity gains 1 focus point each time it suffers damage as a result of a continuous effect or from an attack (whether made by a friendly model or an enemy). And instead of having these focus points removed during the Maintenance Phase, monstrosities retain their focus points until they have been spent.

Likewise, Power Up does not affect the vectors of the Convergence of Cyriss (which are actually considered warjacks in the new edition, albeit warjacks without a cortex). Instead they rely on Focus Induction to keep the focus flowing. Focus Induction now simply states: “When a Convergence warjack spends a focus point during its activation, you can give a focus point to another Convergence warjack if the two are in the same battlegroup and are within 6˝ of one another.” That’s it. So, one warjack can spend all of its focus to fill up the next warjack and so on until the same 3 focus points have flowed through every warjack in your battlegroup.

I think these differences really help add flavor to the Cephalyx and Convergence and truly set them apart from the other Factions in the game. And rest assured, they certainly have been taken into account with regards to the balance of their armies.

**Schmapdi**

novaspike wrote:
It's over on the gen. discussion on the PP boards, but according to twitter, page 5 is dead.

Should be relevant here since that came up a few times in this thread.

It's kinda too bad - because it nicely encapsulated the spirit of the game (play aggressively, etc) but I can see it being used by dickish people to justify dickish behavior (even though it also specifically said "page 5 is not an excuse to be a jerk) - so it's probably better off gone.

**Mr. Grey**

Schmapdi wrote:
novaspike wrote:
It's over on the gen. discussion on the PP boards, but according to twitter, page 5 is dead.

Should be relevant here since that came up a few times in this thread.

It's kinda too bad - because it nicely encapsulated the spirit of the game (play aggressively, etc) but I can see it being used by dickish people to justify dickish behavior (even though it also specifically said "page 5 is not an excuse to be a jerk) - so it's probably better off gone.

I've always seen Page 5 as very tongue-in-cheek. Play your best game possible, be a great player, our game kicks the butts of all the other wargames out there! Go Warmachine! From what I've seen online though, it seems a lot of gamers end up with local players who actually see Page 5 as that excuse to be a jerk, more in the vein of "Play well, be a great opponent, don't be a jerk(wink wink nudge nudge)."

**RiTides**

Mr. Grey wrote:
From what I've seen online though, it seems a lot of gamers end up with local players who actually see Page 5 as that excuse to be a jerk, more in the vein of "Play well, be a great opponent, don't be a jerk(wink wink nudge nudge)."

Exactly - and anything that is "open to abuse" like that (even if it's completely not the designer's intention) should be avoided. I came into Warmachine in MK2, and the page already seemed like a needless holdover from MK1 that required wayyyy too many qualifications to avoid abuse. Instead they could have just said something simple or related to the gameplay, like:

"In this game, we encourage players to take full advantage of anything and everything possible in the ruleset. Want to pick up your warcaster and throw them at your enemy to assassinate them out of nowhere? You can go for it! Want to shoot your own sacrificial model to catch a hard-to-hit enemy in the blast? Totally fair game! We pride ourselves on making a tight ruleset, and if it's something you can do in the rules, it's something we want you to feel free to try in game. Just watch out - next game your opponent may have learned the same trick and turn the tables on you!"

Instead, the current page was all about attitude, which is kind of ridiculous, imo... and really not something the rulebook needs to be coaching you on. Fun players are generally fun players regardless of the ruleset, and anything that gave UN-fun players an excuse to act like a jerk (even if unintended) should have been avoided.

So, this is more good news and I'm really looking forward to some new folks trying out Warmachine with this ruleset

**Azreal13**

Revising Pg5 is a very mature move. It has its origins in a game that was counter culture, was aspiring to be everything the establishment wasn't, and was, taken as intended, a really succinct statement of intent.

WMH isn't that game any more. While it still offers a decent and credible alternative approach, it's now grown into an established player of its own. If the system is balanced and robust enough, players will soon start figuring out they can "play like they've got a pair" for themselves.

**Polonius**

Azreal13 wrote:
Revising Pg5 is a very mature move. It has its origins in a game that was counter culture, was aspiring to be everything the establishment wasn't, and was, taken as intended, a really succinct statement of intent.

I think this hits the nail on the head. It was a general statement of intent that the game is brutal, the options are wide, and that the game is about the game, but it was also a pretty specific refutation of GW's mentality of painting, theme, fluff, and sportsmanship of the time. GW and PP have converged in attitude over the last 15 years, and I think Page 5 is the equivalent of the middle aged guy in tie-dye.

**Killionaire**

I never got the understanding of page 5 as 'being a giant dick'. It was always a respect thing: Play your best game, expect your opponent to play their best game. Shake hands after, and don't passive-aggressive moan if things don't go right.

That doesn't mean 'crush a newbie'. That does mean for non-newbies, 'don't throw games, it's disrespectful. Also don't complain about cheesiness, the rules are there, and learn to overcome some new challenge'.

Explains why after my 2nd game I got blasted by a Jack-Missile, and then realized what the focus of the game was about: An exercise to beating the best challenge your opponent could throw at you, with your own skills and wit.

Now admittedly, I'm out of the game for 4 years. But it's a decidedly different type of game than the 'I want a spectacle rather than a challenge' game that's more along the likes of the GW products

**Polonius**

Killionaire wrote:
But it's a decidedly different type of game than the 'I want a spectacle rather than a challenge' game that's more along the likes of the GW products

And I think that point has been made, and is now pretty firmly entrenched. I bet if you polled 100 tabletop wargamers that have never actually played warmachine what they know about it, I bet they'd be able to generally describe the spirit of the game: competitive, well designed, fast paced, little margin for error, etc.

**jimf747**

I wonder if these are going to be pre primed colors, that would be a nice touch. Open the box, glue em together, paint details as you grow in the game

**Ghaz**

jimf747 wrote:
I wonder if these are going to be pre primed colors, that would be a nice touch. Open the box, glue em together, paint details as you grow in the game

Probably not pre-primed, but molded in colored plastic.

**privateer4hire**

Azreal13 wrote:
Revising Pg5 is a very mature move. It has its origins in a game that was counter culture, was aspiring to be everything the establishment wasn't, and was, taken as intended, a really succinct statement of intent.

WMH isn't that game any more. While it still offers a decent and credible alternative approach, it's now grown into an established player of its own. If the system is balanced and robust enough, players will soon start figuring out they can "play like they've got a pair" for themselves.

Play like you've got three of a kind or better, maybe?

**hotsauceman1**

Dis cephalax even ever get anything after their first initial release?

**Chopxsticks**

Pre colored plastic sounds like a waste of resources. I can only assume having 1 single batch of gray plastic is cheaper than having X amount of colored for each faction. Considering people should be painting their models, all that colored plastic is for naught.

**Sqorgar**

Chopxsticks wrote:
Pre colored plastic sounds like a waste of resources. I can only assume having 1 single batch of gray plastic is cheaper than having X amount of colored for each faction. Considering people should be painting their models, all that colored plastic is for naught.

In general, Warmachine players don't tend to paint their models. They care more about the game than the spectacle.

**NinthMusketeer**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Dis cephalax even ever get anything after their first initial release?

They got a second warcaster with a later release.

As a Cephalyx player I like how their focus is being done, it works with their fluff and their stats (meh armor, high health). On a slightly different note, do warcasters assign their own focus to jacks (or equivalent) anymore? Or is it only power up (or equivalent) that gives them focus?

**hotsauceman1**

Sqorgar wrote:
Chopxsticks wrote:
Pre colored plastic sounds like a waste of resources. I can only assume having 1 single batch of gray plastic is cheaper than having X amount of colored for each faction. Considering people should be painting their models, all that colored plastic is for naught.
In general, Warmachine players don't tend to paint their models. They care more about the game than the spectacle.

Which is a big turn off really.

**Ghaz**

Chopxsticks wrote:
Pre colored plastic sounds like a waste of resources. I can only assume having 1 single batch of gray plastic is cheaper than having X amount of colored for each faction. Considering people should be painting their models, all that colored plastic is for naught.

One of the options for coloring plastic is to add concentrated pigments to the pellets when they're being fed into the injection mold.

**AlexHolker**

Chopxsticks wrote:
Pre colored plastic sounds like a waste of resources. I can only assume having 1 single batch of gray plastic is cheaper than having X amount of colored for each faction. Considering people should be painting their models, all that colored plastic is for naught.

You're wrong. There's not a meaningful increase in cost involved in switching pigments at the same time you're switching the moulds to cast a different faction. The only time it becomes an issue is if the pigment interferes with the material properties of the plastic, as was the case with "Gold Plastic Syndrome".

**TheWaspinator**

Pre-colored plastic does seem like a good idea to me. It upgrades the visuals of the game a bit for those who don't want to paint. And that is a big portion of gamers out there. All you have to do is look at a Board Game Geek thread for a game like Sedition Wars to see that there are a lot of people who want to play miniatures games but don't want to get involved in the arts-and-crafts side of the hobby.

**malfred**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Dis cephalax even ever get anything after their first initial release?
They got a second warcaster with a later release.

As a Cephalyx player I like how their focus is being done, it works with their fluff and their stats (meh armor, high health). On a slightly different note, do warcasters assign their own focus to jacks (or equivalent) anymore? Or is it only power up (or equivalent) that gives them focus?

You can still allocate

**Vertrucio**

privateer4hire wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
Revising Pg5 is a very mature move. It has its origins in a game that was counter culture, was aspiring to be everything the establishment wasn't, and was, taken as intended, a really succinct statement of intent.

WMH isn't that game any more. While it still offers a decent and credible alternative approach, it's now grown into an established player of its own. If the system is balanced and robust enough, players will soon start figuring out they can "play like they've got a pair" for themselves.

Play like you've got three of a kind or better, maybe?

Play like you're a human being more likely. And it's a good to lose page 5 in light of WMH getting a reputation of having toxic players. That's regardless of whether their percentage of toxic players is any higher. Good to see them recognizing that.