Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Baron Klatz wrote: @Pacific, Funnily enough it was Bretonnia that killed(or at least dampened) my love of history. After becoming obsessed with knights and understanding their hate for gunpowder, it becomes harder to read a book that gleefully throws it in your face thaf knighthood died and everything non-cavalry is the real war winner.
Very true, although I think if you look at a 'snap-shot' of history you can find a fairly lengthy period when armour plated knights were the pinnacle development of warfare (indeed, the reason that armour developed in that fashion!), where the charge of heavy cavalry was a signal of tremendous fear for any of the common soldiery. Eventually the crossbow bolt and like you say gunpowder changed the fashion of war, but then you could say the same thing about the demise of the Battleship - the sinking of the Prince of Wales, Bismarck and Yamamoto perhaps marked the end of an era, but doesn't make those machines any less remarkable or evocative to imagine during the first and for most of the second world war.
Anyway! Yes, the end of chivalry is perhaps the end of what perceived as quite a romantic era of warfare (what a ridiculous statement! ), but you have got a couple of hundred years to play with.
Fantasy is dead outside of aos.. but they are resurrecting war of the ring (rank and file warhammer style lotr combat). They are doing this to keep ahold of past fans rather than losing them to kow or whatnot.
455_PWR wrote: Fantasy is dead outside of aos.. but they are resurrecting war of the ring (rank and file warhammer style lotr combat). They are doing this to keep ahold of past fans rather than losing them to kow or whatnot.
That makes no sense though. The two main reasons people stuck with Warhammer were the IP and the fact it was still more ubiquitous than the competition(and so easier to get a game) - a revived WotR doesn't satisfy either of those conditions since it's evidently not the Warhammer IP, and it will be a niche SGS product trying to claw its way back into a market that's had a year to entrench into the current Oldhammer/9th Age/KoW split.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Outside of the AoS app, has anything been released under AoS IP?
I keep seeing apps released but they all state Warhammer, not AoS.
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
Uriels_Flame wrote: Outside of the AoS app, has anything been released under AoS IP?
I keep seeing apps released but they all state Warhammer, not AoS.
You do know that the game's proper name is "Warhammer: Age of Sigmar"?
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I'm ever eager to mock them but this time "It's Faeit" isn't a valid argument since they're listing their source.
But since that source doesn't appear on any more credible source(and is the source even reliable himself?) but only on the site that never gets it right first...
So, you mock the source, and not the echochamber that is Faeit.
I'd rather mock the echo chamber as it is the amplification of the source - that way I go two for the price of one. Additionally, an echo chamber that echoes everything it can get its hands on deserves nothing but mockery to begin with.
So yes, let's move along.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 14:34:56
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
Yes, but all of the recent IP items I've seen come out refer back to 8th ed.
I don't recall seeing anything with the Stormcasts being released outside of the AoS app.
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
Whao, is their any verification about that story about Alessio Calvatore? That's some pretty damning claims, even for Kirby. I know people suspected this for awhile.
Lockark wrote: Whao, is their any verification about that story about Alessio Calvatore? That's some pretty damning claims, even for Kirby. I know people suspected this for awhile.
Whole rumour is just an exercise in confirmation bias.
I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
GW for the love of all that is good and holy kill Age of Sigmar and make Warhammer X A Fantasy Battle game, the world restored each race has been placed onto a new world and has to carve out its land etc make it a global campaign players have a slight sway on the early history of the world and then time jump a few hundred years off of the global campaign. Rules restored to Mass battle game with rank and file troops, but more options for skirmish too rounds for skirmishers. Try to keep it balanced but focus on the fun rules like the Giant and the way he attacks or the steam tank and the way it generates steam points make flavor the top priority. Make about 5-6 Units of 5-20 models the standard amount used and we will have a golden age!
timofeo wrote: I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
Its not like they decide what they're going to release a week before it shows up in White Dwarf. GW has plans for more than a year out.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
timofeo wrote: I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
Its not like they decide what they're going to release a week before it shows up in White Dwarf. GW has plans for more than a year out.
I get what your saying, but does anyone actually think the new guy dislikes AOS and thinks it was a mistake?
timofeo wrote: I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
Its not like they decide what they're going to release a week before it shows up in White Dwarf. GW has plans for more than a year out.
I get what your saying, but does anyone actually think the new guy dislikes AOS and thinks it was a mistake?
It's not like he would ever admit to it. I think you would have to be brain dead to not realize that AOS was a huge mistake. I also find it funny that they are "boosting" AOS sales with the "Last Chance To Buy" selections. Seeing how quickly they are selling out should send a pretty clear message that people still want the old WFB models.
timofeo wrote: I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
Its not like they decide what they're going to release a week before it shows up in White Dwarf. GW has plans for more than a year out.
I get what your saying, but does anyone actually think the new guy dislikes AOS and thinks it was a mistake?
It's not like he would ever admit to it. I think you would have to be brain dead to not realize that AOS was a huge mistake.
Yeah, okay there marketing wizard.
I also find it funny that they are "boosting" AOS sales with the "Last Chance To Buy" selections. Seeing how quickly they are selling out should send a pretty clear message that people still want the old WFB models.
It's funny how people are buying the stuff now when before it was just sitting around.
Your conclusion of "people still want the old WFB models" is one that is based upon flawed logic. Every single model isn't going away, just some. That's the whole point of "Last Chance to Buy"--you get a chance to buy stuff before it goes away.
There's additionally no limits as to how many of a model a customer purchases nor anything of that nature, so assuming that every single model is being sold to someone who wants it and not someone who plans on eBaying stuff as "OOP LTD EDITION!11!!" is kind of a leap as well.
It would be nice if instead of completely discontinuing WHFB products they sold them on a limited rotating basis throughout the year. This way people could still pick up the old stuff eventually and GW can make some money by just running product out of their pre-existing plastic molds.
"The Great Master Plan continues: cutting costs, becoming more efficient, providing excellent returns on capital and paying dividends. "
Any comment on rules / books, models... you know: saleable product right?
"We need to be here next year if you want more of the exquisite models we make. To be here next year we have to do what all our customers want, not just a noisy few, and find a way of making money doing it. "
Sounds almost like a threat: you want our models you better buy more you ingrates!
Sounds like if you complain too much we obviously have to ignore you!
Wait a minute, how do you know what your customers want?
"Babies get born, the rain falls the sun shines and the plants grow, our chickens keep laying, and Games Workshop still employs over 1,500 people, supporting 1,500 families all over the globe, making the best miniatures money can buy, providing one of the best investments in our owners' portfolios, and having a great deal of fun doing it."
Very compelling, either it is "the world just keeps on happening no need to worry or change" or "think about the babies and children we support!".
The best miniatures money can buy almost made we spit-up my drink through my nose.
I would say "very good heroic scale miniatures" but not that blanket statement.
That was all 2014/2015, almost reserved compared to the mess in 2013/2014.
The investor relations page really paints rather clearly the customer is not much of a consideration... more of a "if we make them, they will come".
I will have to think more of the recent changes, it is like one of the old owners was allowed to try a few "old" methods of running the business.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
It's funny how people are buying the stuff now when before it was just sitting around.
At least some is being sold to players of Kings of War - which locally has a lot more players than Age of Sigmar. (I do not pretend that is the case everywhere, but it would not surprise me all that much either way.)
Heck, Mantic has just announced that they are releasing metal bits for making miniatures for Empire of Dust (AKA Tomb Kings Revisited), because the demand is there, and GW is no longer fulfilling that demand.
The Auld Grump
*EDIT* To be clear: I am currently a lot more optimistic of GW's chances than I was at this same time last year - last year I would have been surprised to see GW, as it was then, surviving for another decade. Now, it has a chance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 21:16:08
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
zamerion wrote: Bretonnians were going to be in the next WFB starter before it was scrapped in favour of AoS, meaning there are some lovely plastics that made it to prototyping that will likely never be seen now, including a hero on hippogriff better than the Elf Prince from Island of Blood.
Thanks for kicking me while I'm down. Here, let me smile broadly so you can get all of my teeth, why don't you?
Haha, yeah, after reading that I wanted to eat someone's face and I've never even played Bretonnians. Who knows if it's really true but it's so perfectly cruel I kind of want it to be.
timofeo wrote: I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
Its not like they decide what they're going to release a week before it shows up in White Dwarf. GW has plans for more than a year out.
I get what your saying, but does anyone actually think the new guy dislikes AOS and thinks it was a mistake?
It's not like he would ever admit to it. I think you would have to be brain dead to not realize that AOS was a huge mistake.
Yeah, okay there marketing wizard.
I also find it funny that they are "boosting" AOS sales with the "Last Chance To Buy" selections. Seeing how quickly they are selling out should send a pretty clear message that people still want the old WFB models.
It's funny how people are buying the stuff now when before it was just sitting around.
Your conclusion of "people still want the old WFB models" is one that is based upon flawed logic. Every single model isn't going away, just some. That's the whole point of "Last Chance to Buy"--you get a chance to buy stuff before it goes away.
There's additionally no limits as to how many of a model a customer purchases nor anything of that nature, so assuming that every single model is being sold to someone who wants it and not someone who plans on eBaying stuff as "OOP LTD EDITION!11!!" is kind of a leap as well.
Ahh there's the typical Kanluwen, quick to attack without any valid argument on his part. I would say you need to work on your language comprehension. Nowhere did I say every single model was going away. I merely pointed out that the "Last Chance" stuff is quickly selling out. By adding the "Last Chance To Buy" tag, more people will tend to buy the models. Good to see you are the same guy that posted on the Infinity forums, with the same amount of venom. But it's okay, you can crawl back under your bridge.
I would say that you need to work on your reading comprehension and expressing your points(if you actually had one beyond "lulz AoS was a huge mistake and this is why") better.
Because I addressed your rantings about "Last Chance to Buy" pretty well.
Of course things are selling now. You have people who might be trying to round out their collections before things go away or people who are trying to pick stuff up because it's simply going OOP or you have people who are trying to buy as much of certain things as they can to eBay it.
But hey, just keep pretending that there's "no valid argument" on my part. It's not like sales dropped pretty hard for WHFB to the point where there are STILL boxed sets from two Christmases ago sitting on the shelves in stores, right?
"The Great Master Plan continues: cutting costs, becoming more efficient, providing excellent returns on capital and paying dividends. "
Any comment on rules / books, models... you know: saleable product right?
"We need to be here next year if you want more of the exquisite models we make. To be here next year we have to do what all our customers want, not just a noisy few, and find a way of making money doing it. "
Sounds almost like a threat: you want our models you better buy more you ingrates!
Sounds like if you complain too much we obviously have to ignore you!
Wait a minute, how do you know what your customers want?
"Babies get born, the rain falls the sun shines and the plants grow, our chickens keep laying, and Games Workshop still employs over 1,500 people, supporting 1,500 families all over the globe, making the best miniatures money can buy, providing one of the best investments in our owners' portfolios, and having a great deal of fun doing it."
Very compelling, either it is "the world just keeps on happening no need to worry or change" or "think about the babies and children we support!".
The best miniatures money can buy almost made we spit-up my drink through my nose.
I would say "very good heroic scale miniatures" but not that blanket statement.
That was all 2014/2015, almost reserved compared to the mess in 2013/2014.
The investor relations page really paints rather clearly the customer is not much of a consideration... more of a "if we make them, they will come".
I will have to think more of the recent changes, it is like one of the old owners was allowed to try a few "old" methods of running the business.
I'm glad that he's gone and for my experience GW isn't just coming round, they're making this(well, not just them) the best time for wargaming in my life. And for whatever happened behind the scenes I still get a kick out of the crap like that quoted above. Thanks for the laughs We 'Muricans had Bushisms for a time, even a daily desk calendar. Maybe there's a market for that.
co-host weekly wargaming podcast Combat Phase
on iTunes or www.combatphase.com
We are no longer dependent on large companies to make great games.
Social media and rapid prototyping coupled with crowd finding has allowed anyone with a great idea to make it a reality.
Though I think FFG is showing everyone how it is done.
Malifaux has found a great niche as well.
Privateer with Warmahordes is a great comparison of what 40k could have been.
For games in general I can say it has been the best gaming in my life (almost 50 years!).
A bit of a low with 40k but other games compensated nicely! GW really has to get it together and make something shiny or the profits will continue to plummet.
The changes we see now makes me hopeful.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Baron Klatz wrote: @Pacific, Funnily enough it was Bretonnia that killed(or at least dampened) my love of history. After becoming obsessed with knights and understanding their hate for gunpowder, it becomes harder to read a book that gleefully throws it in your face thaf knighthood died and everything non-cavalry is the real war winner.
Very true, although I think if you look at a 'snap-shot' of history you can find a fairly lengthy period when armour plated knights were the pinnacle development of warfare (indeed, the reason that armour developed in that fashion!), where the charge of heavy cavalry was a signal of tremendous fear for any of the common soldiery. Eventually the crossbow bolt and like you say gunpowder changed the fashion of war, but then you could say the same thing about the demise of the Battleship - the sinking of the Prince of Wales, Bismarck and Yamamoto perhaps marked the end of an era, but doesn't make those machines any less remarkable or evocative to imagine during the first and for most of the second world war.
Anyway! Yes, the end of chivalry is perhaps the end of what perceived as quite a romantic era of warfare (what a ridiculous statement! ), but you have got a couple of hundred years to play with.
Haha, quite true on all points. My biggest complaint these days is with the so-called "historians" that write the books. More and more they water military history down so only the main points are shown and they ignore everything else.
Did longbows win Agincourt? Yes, but it becomes difficult to find them putting down that the French knights still made it to the English line and nearly broke through if not for the English knights and man-at-arms holding the line. It's even rarer to find out that the English suffered from Dysentery and had to fight with with their pants down but they'll make sure to put in those three useless cannons the English used.
Lepanto's worse because out of five history books that drooled over the superior European guns and cannons only one made mention of the heroic actions of the armored knights that freed the slaves of the enemy ships mid-battle and having close-deck battles where forty knights killed four hundred opponents.
Well, there's my rant.
timofeo wrote: I thought Kirby stepped down last year like in January or something? Why are they saying it like the new guy loves the game when under his reign it was all demolished and turned into Age of Sigmar.
He's taking steps to make the game something great and not sweep it under the rug for more 40k. That's love in my book.
Also, AoS was started in 2013, he's just building on it.
GW for the love of all that is good and holy kill Age of Sigmar and make Warhammer X A Fantasy Battle game,
Or how about handing WFBX over to the specialist games and building on AoS to please both fan groups.
the world restored each race has been placed onto a new world and has to carve out its land etc make it a global campaign players have a slight sway on the early history of the world and then time jump a few hundred years off of the global campaign.
Eh, the eight realms getting some maps and putting together fan-made ideas(via FB) with official lore would be cooler. Alot more to work with and gives people a something they can better relate to.
Global campaign would be cool for both.
Rules restored to Mass battle game with rank and file troops, but more options for skirmish too rounds for skirmishers.
AoS: give trays for round bases.
Specialist games: Mordheim-esque rules.
Try to keep it balanced but focus on the fun rules like the Giant and the way he attacks or the steam tank and the way it generates steam points make flavor the top priority.
Are you asking a company this or a genie?
Even 9th age, the successor of 8th and trying to keep the old game flavor, are planning on major streamlining by removing alot of special rules to make the game more balanced.
Balance and flavor don't mix well.
Make about 5-6 Units of 5-20 models the standard amount used and we will have a golden age!
Heh, that basically a game of AoS. Would be nice to see Specialist games do something like that as well.
Also, going by your avatar, aren't you that chap on 9th age who made a thread to propose your own vision for KoE? Just curious.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/23 01:24:02
There's so much lore potential in AoS, potentially even more so than WHFB. We have 9 realms, each with their own stories to tell, and unique features. Don't trash the AoS lore, after all, the game is barely a year old, compared to how old Fantasy was. With the quality of the AoS "campaign" books, Grand Alliance books, and novels coming out, I'm liking the AoS lore a lot more by the week.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Hear hear! There's so much for them to expand on and they've done a considerable amount when factoring in that they also have to balance out the releases with 40k.
What's annoying is that many disregard the lore and say it hasn't shown much when they haven't even read a novel of it yet.
The AoS lore so far has only covered major events and big battles, that's exactly what a wargame focused narrative is supposed to do. We'll have to wait for things like the upcoming Silver Tower game and any kind of future rpg supplements to get the level of lore detail people complain the setting lacks.
Verviedi wrote: There's so much lore potential in AoS, potentially even more so than WHFB. We have 9 realms, each with their own stories to tell, and unique features. Don't trash the AoS lore, after all, the game is barely a year old, compared to how old Fantasy was. With the quality of the AoS "campaign" books, Grand Alliance books, and novels coming out, I'm liking the AoS lore a lot more by the week.
But AoS lore is trash. This isn't about giving AoS time to "bed in", or comparing all the accumulated lore for WHFB to the little that's come out for AoS so far, it's about the tone & content of the material; AoS is about big, bombastic, over-the-top catastrofiction and nothing else. It doesn't care about telling stories about the 9 realms or the people who live there beyond "they all died to Chaos/Orcs/Skaven/Godbeasts and then Sigmarines showed up and took revenge YAY!", because it doesn't want us to care about anything that doesn't involve whatever is up for preorder that week. The structure of the setting, the style of the fiction, the motivations(such as they are) and abilities of the factions - they're all designed such that the writers can make the "buy moar models" tie-in fiction as "epic" as possible by blowing up vast tracts of land and killing vast populations of people without having to deal with any reprecussions. The sad thing is though, in trying to ensure there are no real consequences or stakes, they remove any reason for the reader to give a gak - OK, so Chaos wiped out a whole town of people, why do I care again? I don't know anything about these people, how they lived, what they wanted out of the lives that were taken from them, they're just numbers used by the author to remind you that, yes, Chaos are baddies.
I don't think the AoS fiction is gak because there aren't any WFRP-style sourcebooks out for it yet, I think the AoS fiction is gak because I believe it's intentionally incapable of supporting that kind of detail and worldbuilding and it never will be capable of it unless they change the core purpose of the setting, which is evidently unlikely.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Baron Klatz wrote: Hear hear! There's so much for them to expand on and they've done a considerable amount when factoring in that they also have to balance out the releases with 40k.
What's annoying is that many disregard the lore and say it hasn't shown much when they haven't even read a novel of it yet.
The AoS lore so far has only covered major events and big battles, that's exactly what a wargame focused narrative is supposed to do. We'll have to wait for things like the upcoming Silver Tower game and any kind of future rpg supplements to get the level of lore detail people complain the setting lacks.
To be fair, the new lore is damn bloody expensive. It's even worse if the customer doesn't even know what to expect or if he'll like it. I'd love to catch up on the AOS lore, but the prices for the novellas are just bananas, and the gaming/fluff books are beyond that.
Well, with all due respect and as yourself admitted, that's what you believe. Besides some of the novels showing the struggles of the innocents in the mortal realms, any additional sourcebooks could really help you care about those people.
Of course, this is all opinion based when we get down to it. AoS could make great books and very well give you what you're asking in the nitty-gritty of why a town is there and why it's important and it's people worth saving but if you yourself can't invest yourself into the setting then it's all for nought anyway.
40k novels deal with countless worlds and random cities that meet death on a regular basis but are usually exceptional reads. No reason why AoS can't make just as compelling novels with it's fickle dieties, war to reclaim peace in a chaos ravaged setting and massive realms of unexplored possibilities.
[Edit]: @BobtheInquisitor, that's fair enough. Though there has been some good reads, GW might want to consider making it more accessible.
Nice to see things like the Lexicanum helping to show the events in the lore to that regard. Might have to start a Narrative guideline in the AoS section to help people catch up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/23 05:19:55
), but you have got a couple of hundred years to play with.
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester 
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k 
