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We had another thread on Dakka with a discussion about the rules based on the GW 'How to play'-video from http://www.battleforvedros.com (the last vid). Check it out, it was very interesting. If you pause the video at the point they show the back of the manual you can see Vedros' unit stats.

These rules are at its core 40k rules. GW made changes so it can be taught to new players more easily. BOLS and others can say what they want but these are clearly not AoS rules.

They only simplified the 40k mechanics - if things happened to be too complex - the same way people have been teaching 40k for ages at clubs, shops and conventions to players completely new to the hobby.

There is no measuring from model to model but from base to base. The initiative works like 40k and not like AoS.

Instead of BS (and check a table) the unit stats tell you what to roll. Like in BAC, EF and all the new Board games.

They also used the old Citadel Journal rules (experimental, for 2nd edition) where Toughness instead of armour values was introduced for vehicles and they had wounds. Another change is no (edit) run rolls, always 4".

Everything is just a reduced 40k ruleset. Don't let them fool you.

Warhams-77 wrote:
We had another thread on Dakka with a discussion about the rules based on the GW 'How to play'-video from http://www.battleforvedros.com (the last vid). Check it out, it was very interesting. If you pause the video at the point they show the back of the manual you can see Vedros' unit stats.

These rules are at its core 40k rules. GW made changes so it can be taught to new players easier. BOLS and others can say what they want but these are clearly not AoS rules.

They only simplified the 40k mechanics - if things happened to be too complex - the same way people have been teaching 40k for ages at clubs, shops and conventions to players completely new to the hobby.

There is no measuring from model to model. The iniative works like 40k and not like AoS.

Instead of BS (and check a table) the unit stats tell you what to roll. Like in BAC, EF and all the new Board games.

They also used the old Citadel Journal rules (experimental, for 2nd edition) where Toughness instead of armour values was introduced for vehicles and they had wounds. Another change is, no charge range rolls.

Everything is just a reduced 40k ruleset. Don't let them fool you.

Good to know! I still find the model count to be very strange. 1 Termie is very, very odd. One Kopter usually isn't, as many people run them solo (I always ran them in squadrons of 3). It feels that playing with the 40k ruleset, even simplified, that single terminator is a VERY strange decision on their part.

Hey I liked the old Wartrakk and the old flatbed Wartrukk, they actually 'looked their stats' compared to the huge Ork Semi the Wartrukk is now.

It is. In the old discussion we compared the sprues in Black Reach with the Vedros box and it now turns out GW was re-using two of them and adding two little sprues with Ork Boyz to it. It seems odd at first but it is only a manufacturing thing I guess. The Terminator is the Sergeant with power sword by the way, so he is more like a character model to new players.

Photo from BOLS




According to GW the other, additional Vedros-kits get rules in the Vedros rulebook already. To me everything feels a bit like Space Crusade/Advanced Space Crusade, a gateway 'drug' to the hobby if you will.

I find it a little odd that the Kopter gets 2 shots now, when they normally get one twin linked shot...huh...works for the 'self contained' boxed set, and lets the Kopter deal with the Naught a little better...though I suppose two dice also is pseudo-twin linked, statistically?

More pics from the BOLS unboxing




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, 2D6 is the same (in this case)

I have a friend that might be interested in this.

Melevolence wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
The contents are clearly designed around the simplified rules included in the box. Which is good...I suppose it MAY steer vets away from buying all these up and not letting the intended purchasers get any. But the single terminator and single deffkopter...those feel so out of place to me.

Its the old 'Assault on Black Reach' starter set. The contents definitely are not 'designed around the simplified rules'.

Maybe there is conflicting info, but the OP states a different model count than the AOBR, which had a full squad of Tacs, Termies, and 3 Kopters. According to the OP, this kit contains 6 tacs, 1 termie, and 1 kopter, which is not the same as the AOBR box.

And people have been stating this Vedros box has a very basic rule set to mitigate confusion and charts, which makes it appear that they have a psudo-AoS rule set in the box and perhaps slightly different rules, which may be why the contents are different.

I could be mistaken, but my only information is this thread, which is why I brought that concern up in the first place.

Yes AOBR contents was different but that's because it had other sprues.

To put it in uber simplified let's say AOBR had 2 sprues(think there was more). 1 has 1 terminator(along with other stuff), 1 has 4 terminators(plus of course other stuff)

For this they put the sprue that had the ONE terminator. Didn't put in the other(they don't want to give TOO much stuff for this price and didn't want to sell the box for more pricey. Goal is likely cheap starting set to attract new kids. Sell this cheaply, sell more stuff when they get hooked)

That's why despite sprue being from AOBR there's not full content of AOBR. Still sprue design dates back to then and not designed for the rules. Sprue was NOT designed for this set. Whole point for GW is to reuse old sprue(which is already paid for and has given them profit) to produce CHEAPLY these sets. Designing new sprue just for this would mean they would be asking more money than they do because they would need to pay for desing and produce of new sprue. Which being plastic is not cheap.

edit: Specifically it has these sprues:



Dreadnought, ONE terminator.



Warboss, deth kopta.

But it's missing this that AOBR had IIRC two copies.



Notice 2 terminators there. If the new box had two of these it would have 5 terminators. Also 4 more tac marines and 14 more orks. And 2 more deth koptas.

But this sprue is completely missing. That's why there's only 1 terminator in new box.

Here, I Google-ed the AOBR sprues.

Yeah, it definitely looks like Vedros has two of the four AOBR sprues, plus some extra orcs.

Edit: Well, I was ninja-ed.

One thought: are those extra Ork sprues the ones from the mini four-pack? If so, Vedros does appear to be 100% recycled sprues.

I wonder why they didn't include the old red measuring sticks in this one, would have made it even easier for the kids.

Schmapdi wrote:
God - they're really not selling that 2 decade old, doesn't look like any modern Ork kit Ork Wartrakk are they? Is that really the impression they want to give new customers?

It'd be like having one of the boxes just randomly containing RT-era Space Marines.

If this had RT SMs in it people would be falling all over themselves to get their hands on it. Have you seen what those go for on eBay?

 General Kroll wrote:
I wonder why they didn't include the old red measuring sticks in this one, would have made it even easier for the kids.

Absolutely. I guess because of the box. Vedros has the Start Collecting type of packaging. So it is of smaller size. The sticks would have meant a larger box or new, smaller sticks

 TheWaspinator wrote:
One thought: are those extra Ork sprues the ones from the mini four-pack? If so, Vedros does appear to be 100% recycled sprues.

Assuming quantities make sense(no 3 extra models with 4-pack sprue having either 2 or 4 ork per sprue for example) then almost certainly yes.

Plastic sprues ain't cheap to produce so designing new one just for this would be pretty weird move if one assumes goal is to produce lots of these _cheaply_ to attract new gamers. For that goal recycled sprues are perfect.

If by some miracle those extra orks ARE new sprue(wtf?) expect to see them separately on sale el pronto. Need to get the sprue expenses paid up. These alone don't get far.

Schmapdi wrote:
God - they're really not selling that 2 decade old, doesn't look like any modern Ork kit Ork Wartrakk are they? Is that really the impression they want to give new customers?

You're confusing the Wartrakk with the old Wartrukk (now just Trukk).

The 'modern' Ork Wartrakk is the same 2 decade old kit from yesteryear. GW never got around to updating it...

 General Kroll wrote:
I wonder why they didn't include the old red measuring sticks in this one, would have made it even easier for the kids.

Because the children would whip each other to death. After all GW want to sell toys, not cruel torture devices . I'm so happy I have a set of these left

 Weboflies wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God - they're really not selling that 2 decade old, doesn't look like any modern Ork kit Ork Wartrakk are they? Is that really the impression they want to give new customers?

It'd be like having one of the boxes just randomly containing RT-era Space Marines.

If this had RT SMs in it people would be falling all over themselves to get their hands on it. Have you seen what those go for on eBay?

One difference though is that the RT SM's aren't quite as badly dated. For example I don't think scalewise they are nearly as badly off as the orks in wartrakk? Albeit I don't have RT marine but the wartrakk orks look like different scale alltogether. Don't really fit with current ork style(which is why I have only one wartrakk I got 2nd hand as part of bigger deal. They just don't fit with new orks)

tneva82 wrote:

 Weboflies wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God - they're really not selling that 2 decade old, doesn't look like any modern Ork kit Ork Wartrakk are they? Is that really the impression they want to give new customers?

It'd be like having one of the boxes just randomly containing RT-era Space Marines.

If this had RT SMs in it people would be falling all over themselves to get their hands on it. Have you seen what those go for on eBay?

One difference though is that the RT SM's aren't quite as badly dated. For example I don't think scalewise they are nearly as badly off as the orks in wartrakk? Albeit I don't have RT marine but the wartrakk orks look like different scale alltogether. Don't really fit with current ork style(which is why I have only one wartrakk I got 2nd hand as part of bigger deal. They just don't fit with new orks)

Scale wise, RT SMs are a bit off. They are a bit smaller than modern Space Marines, which themselves are not as tall to scale as the fluff would seem to dictate. Many people, myself included, love them and still buy/ use them regardless.

Ok, yeah, those are the $10 mini pack Orks. I realized they had a sprue shot on GW's site. Looks the same as the photos from the Vedros unboxing.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Boyz-4-models

 Weboflies wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Weboflies wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
God - they're really not selling that 2 decade old, doesn't look like any modern Ork kit Ork Wartrakk are they? Is that really the impression they want to give new customers?

It'd be like having one of the boxes just randomly containing RT-era Space Marines.

If this had RT SMs in it people would be falling all over themselves to get their hands on it. Have you seen what those go for on eBay?

One difference though is that the RT SM's aren't quite as badly dated. For example I don't think scalewise they are nearly as badly off as the orks in wartrakk? Albeit I don't have RT marine but the wartrakk orks look like different scale alltogether. Don't really fit with current ork style(which is why I have only one wartrakk I got 2nd hand as part of bigger deal. They just don't fit with new orks)

Scale wise, RT SMs are a bit off. They are a bit smaller than modern Space Marines, which themselves are not as tall to scale as the fluff would seem to dictate. Many people, myself included, love them and still buy/ use them regardless.

Wartrakk orks are not a bit off though. They are completely off. Size and style. Neither fits. They look totally silly. More like kids running around parents.

The big deal that they are reusing parts of old sprue?
The kit is so dirt cheap! It's 50 bucks...you can even but a terminator for 50 bucks (the term kit obviously has more options but still). They can price it so cheaply but using portions of an old sprue and that draws kids and new players in who would otherwise never get it because its so expensive. Do you think the kids are gunna say "omg that Ork wartrack it SO outdated" no...they're gunna say "omg look at this awesome Ork thing!!!"

Getting new players into the game is good. BaC has brought in more 30K players, which is good. This might do the same.

Considering I'm pretty sure AOBR was the highest selling starter GW ever produced I'm happy to see them putting it back out to help get new people into the game. It was also a more "family friendly" starter than the current chaos/DA one since it doesn't have exposed fleshy bits. Because of LoTR even the most under a rock parent knows what an Ork is even if they don't look much alike.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
The big deal that they are reusing parts of old sprue?
The kit is so dirt cheap! It's 50 bucks...you can even but a terminator for 50 bucks (the term kit obviously has more options but still). They can price it so cheaply but using portions of an old sprue and that draws kids and new players in who would otherwise never get it because its so expensive. Do you think the kids are gunna say "omg that Ork wartrack it SO outdated" no...they're gunna say "omg look at this awesome Ork thing!!!"

I'm not a kid and I still go "look at this awesome Ork thing!!!"

 chiefbigredman wrote:
The big deal that they are reusing parts of old sprue?
The kit is so dirt cheap! It's 50 bucks...you can even but a terminator for 50 bucks (the term kit obviously has more options but still). They can price it so cheaply but using portions of an old sprue and that draws kids and new players in who would otherwise never get it because its so expensive. Do you think the kids are gunna say "omg that Ork wartrack it SO outdated" no...they're gunna say "omg look at this awesome Ork thing!!!"

Except what looiks awesome to kid of today is not quite the same as it was to kids of 20 year ago

I don't play marines, so I don't know their unit price, but I calculated to my best estimate that the orks are are total of 314pts. I would like to know how much the sm come to?
Also, if anyone has a pic of the sm and ork reinforcements rules, can you post them?

I like the Run Mechanic in Vedros and think it should be used in the broader game. A flat +4" move in the movement phase is just so much simpler. Let Fleet make it a flat +6" move, or return the Run + Charge bonus for Fleet.

Just a quick look at the simplified rules and it looks like Orks are better at shooting than space marines

Those poor Ork players who convert over to 40K proper are in for a dissapointment.

Serioulsy, can't wait for these to hit the shelves. The models are a great price, and it gives me an incentive to teach my kids. I've held off on teaching them 40K because it's a bit more complicated.

geargutz wrote:
I don't play marines, so I don't know their unit price, but I calculated to my best estimate that the orks are are total of 314pts. I would like to know how much the sm come to?
Also, if anyone has a pic of the sm and ork reinforcements rules, can you post them?

They come out to about 350 points.

 adamsouza wrote:

Serioulsy, can't wait for these to hit the shelves. The models are a great price, and it gives me an incentive to teach my kids. I've held off on teaching them 40K because it's a bit more complicated.

If your interested in a simple 40k system to play with ur kids then I highly recommend one page 40k https://onepagerules.wordpress.com/portfolio/one-page-40k/
It's simple enough that I had a basic game with my 8yr old nephew.
I'm gonna try vedros with him, but that's only the select orks and sm in the box, 1p40k covers all 40k factions (minus flyers, some superheavys and fw).

tneva82 wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
The big deal that they are reusing parts of old sprue?
The kit is so dirt cheap! It's 50 bucks...you can even but a terminator for 50 bucks (the term kit obviously has more options but still). They can price it so cheaply but using portions of an old sprue and that draws kids and new players in who would otherwise never get it because its so expensive. Do you think the kids are gunna say "omg that Ork wartrack it SO outdated" no...they're gunna say "omg look at this awesome Ork thing!!!"

Except what looiks awesome to kid of today is not quite the same as it was to kids of 20 year ago

Tell that to my nephew who didn't stop playing with my 30 year old action man all last weekend.

The old Wartrack looks just fine, it will serve a purpose in this product line. It's not aimed at hardcore hobbyists.