insaniak wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

Here's the thing.. I don't agree with the move. Everyone is replying by attacking my position and not defending GW's decision. I've heard no valid reasons to put out a kit t hat needs to be allowed to die in the comfort of it's home surrounded by loved ones only how stupid I am for questioning GW's infinite wisdom.

Ah. So the problem is that you're taking disagreement as a personal attack.

I'd stop doing that, frankly.


You don't like these kits? That's fine. Others do, or don't see a problem with them being available as cheap starters, or have these models in their collections and so welcome the opportunity to buy more matching kits to expand their army.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:
I won't bother responding to the rest of your snark because you're clearly not interested in discussing this so much as just picking apart posts like they're entries in a rulebook or something. That and you didn't even bother reading my reply to someone else asking what I meant by "considered official".

I suspect that you missed my point. You seem to be looking for some sort of 'official' stamp that simply doesn't exist where GW is concerned. Outside of specific tournament rulings (which are uncommon, from my expetience) any of GW's models or rules are as 'official' as players want them to be.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Does anyone know where these are being sold in Northwest Florida? I'd like a couple of these for starter Gorkamorka gangs.

 MLaw wrote:

Slow down just a second. I'm not taking anything as a personal attack. I'm saying that instead of addressing the release and the decision (and why it's a good idea to re-release a kit that was outmoded) people are attacking my position. I don't mean anyone's hurting my feelings or calling me names or any of that silliness. I'm saying that people are responding to my position instead of what my position is about.

 Kalamadea wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

Slow down just a second. I'm not taking anything as a personal attack. I'm saying that instead of addressing the release and the decision (and why it's a good idea to re-release a kit that was outmoded) people are attacking my position. I don't mean anyone's hurting my feelings or calling me names or any of that silliness. I'm saying that people are responding to my position instead of what my position is about.

They've done both. You've ignored all the points about being cheap intro kits for new players being sold in stores that 40K normally would not carry Warhammer, or from existing players that like having a cheaper option around, or from people that look at those old kits and remember how much fun they were and pick one up just for kicks. You also state that companies don't reuse old assets just because they have newer versions of those assets. Bandai still sells many of their older style Gundam kits even though they have newer ones that are better designed because the pricepoints are different and they cater to people of different skill levels. They even have different grades for their kit for this exact reason. The reason people are arguing against your stance is because YOU think the kits should not exist because YOU don't like them and YOU think they're ugly and too small, just because there's a more detailed option. But almost everyone else agrees that the old kits being around again is good because it offers choice. New players will look at those kits and think they're as cool as we did when they came out. Then they'll loook around the internet, see there's newer and better looking kits, but also MUCH more expensive kits. Most tween/teens are smart enough to know the difference between an entry level kit and a high end kit. That Perfect Grade Gundam kit is always WAY more awesome than the High Grade kit, but it's also $200 instead of $20, and if I've never really build a model before, that PG kit is gonna do nothing but frustrate me whereas a HG kit can be built in an afternoon and still look pretty darn cool as I fly it around and make pew-pew-pew noises.

The fact that there's 14 pages of people mostly saying "these are cool, where can I get them? When are they coming to my area?" should give you an idea that maybe there's some good value in these existing,even if you don't like them. In fact, the opinion "Wow, I think that thing is absolutely dreadfull, I can't imagine anybody liking that but clearly people do, so whatever floats your boat, I suppose" covers 90% of all movies, TV, music and toys I see nowadays

 MLaw wrote:

 CURNOW wrote:
He seems to have a bee in his bonnet about people using old models when there are newer ones released. And also seems to think its some kind of scam run buy GW to trick kids in to buying a "inferior " kit ,

Personally I love the old trucks and how easy they were to convert up .

Now if they did a drastic plastics I would be all over them

Seriously.. how does nobody else understand this?
If you own a company and you replace inferior, older products with something newer, the idea is to allow the newer products to become the face of your company's products and capabilities. Re-releasing inferior products (yes they are inferior in almost every conceivable way) is not something done by 99% of businesses. Why put the resources into it at all? If they want to make cheap starter kits then make cheap starter kits. Ork players have a hard enough time with being taken seriously, now on top of all else, we'll have this stuff floating around again..

Here's the thing.. I don't agree with the move. Everyone is replying by attacking my position and not defending GW's decision. I've heard no valid reasons to put out a kit that needs to be allowed to die in the comfort of it's home surrounded by loved ones only how stupid I am for questioning GW's infinite wisdom.

 MLaw wrote:
I don't think you are reading or understanding what I am saying. I clearly mentioned kids. Kids are the only ones who WOULD be fooled by it. The reason I don't like this approach is because specifically it seems like it's aimed at entry level kids who are new to the hobby. Being a father of two children in that exact target group I am extremely tuned into this (if not a bit over sensitive)

 MLaw wrote:
I stand corrected on the date but I think you're stretching semantics to claim they're not trying to treat this as a new release. For the uninitiated they have no clue that it's leftovers microwaved and being served up as cuisine.. The pricing tells the real story. It wouldn't have been hard at all for them to at least update the driver and gunner on either of those kits. Even if it was just to re-use the crew from the new Trukk kit or the Stompa crew or whatever. I suppose bits sellers will be busy supplying alternatives :/

 adamsouza wrote:
Build and Paint kits are at home here.

Is that last pic a display mat ?

Warhammer 40,000 Build + Paint Series 1
Publisher: Games Workshop
Release Date (US): December 2016
MSRP: $39.99 for Space Marine Heavy Assault, other kits vary from $14.99 to $39.99.
Ages: 8 and up
Product #: 99172001001 (Space Marine Heavy Assault)
ICv2 Rating: 3.5 Stars out of 5

I was lucky: my introduction to miniatures painting was by a talented and very patient friend of the family (thanks, Duck!) who generously showed me the basics. Though it would be some years before I embraced the joys of tabletop miniature gaming, those basics stuck with me and gave me a huge leg up when it was time to start painting my own armies. But what about those who aren't so fortunate? How does one leap into the often-overwhelming world of minis? Well, one could do far worse than Games Workshop’s new line of Build + Paint mini kits, but sadly they aren't perfect for the task.

Summary: The Warhammer 40,000 Build + Paint Series 1 includes six different kits that feature the iconic foes of the Warhammer 40,000 world: the Space Marines and the Space Orks. Each kit includes a small number of plastic miniatures on sprues, an all-around utility brush, and a small assortment of tiny little jars of paint, along with a picture-based instruction booklet that shows how to assemble the models. Collect and build all six sets, and you end up with a nice little diorama display, using the full-color paper mat and plastic scenery pieces included in the various kits.

The stated purpose of these kits is to introduce new miniatures enthusiasts to the world of Warhammer 40,000. Each kit has a pamphlet inviting them to explore "a whole galaxy of miniatures," with the ultimate goal of joining the game’s global fan community.

Originality: Introducing new players to miniatures gaming always leads to the challenge of teaching them how to assemble and paint their own models so they can fully enjoy the experience. Over the years, there have been a number of attempts to create a product that would serve this purpose, and my hope was that Games Workshop would be able to use its resources, both physical and digital, to achieve this goal better than had been done before. Sadly, the final result did not live up to my hopes: instead it's a fairly typical set of minis with tiny paint pots, which is something we’ve seen many times before.

Presentation: Like always, Games Workshop does a fine job with the artistic presentation of their product: bright bold colors, dynamic action-filled artwork, easy-to-read titles and text. The box nicely presents the kit and explains what it is, along with a little blurb of "fluff" that is the hallmark of Warhammer. Sadly, they chose a flimsy paper tuckbox for the packaging, but considering that you’re not likely to use the box once you take the minis out and assemble them, that's forgivable.

Quality: Many of the models in Series 1 are actually the same models as the regular line of Warhammer 40,000. Others, like the Space Marine Dreadnought, are streamlined and simplified for a novice assembler. This was a great idea, and I wish that all of the models in the line had been given the same treatment, as some of the more complex models could overwhelm a new modeler (I'm looking at you, Land Speeder!). The models themselves are, naturally, well-detailed, top quality plastic minis, thoughtfully molded in colored plastic that matches the typical base coat color for the models--ultramarine blue for the Space Marines, green for the Orks--which will save new and excited painters a lot of time and effort (and paint).

The variety of paint colors included is very limited, with only three to six colors to choose from in each kit. Notably absent was a base coat color to match the color of the plastic that could be used to clean up the sloppy errors that a new painter will inevitably make. In some cases, the choice of plastic color actually undermines this goal, however, such as the Space Ork Trukkboyz truck, which comes in solid green but must be painted almost completely red.

But the real oversight is in the instructions, or lack thereof. I really wanted to see an in-depth explanation of how to prepare and assemble the models, along with step-by-step instructions on the basics of painting. If I were new to the hobby, and I picked up a Build + Paint, I would still be left off with no idea of where to begin, where I was going, or how to get there.

Marketability: Build + Paint kits are not going to appeal to existing players. In order to succeed, then, they must appeal to inexperienced modelers and compel them to embrace the hobby. Much of this appeal is going to be the price: The Space Marine Heavy Assault kit includes five Terminator Marines plus a Dreadnought. The Terminators alone normally retail for $50 (albeit in a more customizable form), which makes this kit a real bargain. The other kits offer similar deals.

Overall: Build + Paint Series 1 is not the model kit line I wanted it to be. It would have been far more effective as an introduction to the hobby if it had more models that were easier to assemble (snap fit, perhaps?), a more generous paint assortment, and a quality set of introductory-level instructions (or even better, links to on-line videos showing, step-by-step, the entire process from beginning to end).

But setting aside that disappointment, these are good, basic level model kits with a good all-around brush and enough paint to have a lot of fun painting and experimenting with some basic effects. This is not a terrible place for new miniatures gamers to start, particularly if they are excited by the Warhammer 40,000 setting. And that's why I give these kits 3.5 out of 5.

--William Niebling