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More defense just makes the game worse. They need more offense. The terminators embody the failure of the bolter series of weapons. They are all garbage, which is in direct contradiction of the precious fluff.

Terminators: 2 wounds each.

And this isn't a codex change, but allow assaults out of a transport that has not yet moved that turn.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Terminators: 2 wounds each.

And this isn't a codex change, but allow assaults out of a transport that has not yet moved that turn.

I really think that steps on MANZ's toes too much. They don't need more defense, they need to be able to kill what's trying to kill them.

Sisters Celestian: +2 Initiative.

Vindicators definitely should have at least AV 12 if not AV 13 on the sides. Their armor is very clearly supposed to be more robust on their sides than other Rhino-pattern tanks have.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Vindicators definitely should have at least AV 12 if not AV 13 on the sides. Their armor is very clearly supposed to be more robust on their sides than other Rhino-pattern tanks have.

What, you don't like the paper sides?

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Vindicators definitely should have at least AV 12 if not AV 13 on the sides. Their armor is very clearly supposed to be more robust on their sides than other Rhino-pattern tanks have.

What, you don't like the paper sides?

The fact that the stalker/hunter has AV12 sides is frankly an insult to the SM main tanks. It’s one of the problems with marines: inertia and the fact the same thing is copied in 4+ different books. Makes it hard to make changes to anything.

But the new shiny things don’t share that problem.

Eldar Wraith Lords now have "WraithStrider: a model with this rule adds +3" when if moves in the movement phase, or charges in the assault phase". Because it makes no sense for a model whose legs are twice the height of a Space marine to move as slow as infantry. Eldar don't build slow lumbering machines.

 Galef wrote:
Eldar Wraith Lords now have "WraithStrider: a model with this rule adds +3" when if moves in the movement phase, or charges in the assault phase". Because it makes no sense for a model whose legs are twice the height of a Space marine to move as slow as infantry. Eldar don't build slow lumbering machines.

I actually like that a lot.

 Galef wrote:
Eldar Wraith Lords now have "WraithStrider: a model with this rule adds +3" when if moves in the movement phase, or charges in the assault phase". Because it makes no sense for a model whose legs are twice the height of a Space marine to move as slow as infantry. Eldar don't build slow lumbering machines.

Sure. Just pay for it.

Martel732 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Eldar Wraith Lords now have "WraithStrider: a model with this rule adds +3" when if moves in the movement phase, or charges in the assault phase". Because it makes no sense for a model whose legs are twice the height of a Space marine to move as slow as infantry. Eldar don't build slow lumbering machines.

Sure. Just pay for it.

On the already overpriced model? We are right now.

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Eldar Wraith Lords now have "WraithStrider: a model with this rule adds +3" when if moves in the movement phase, or charges in the assault phase". Because it makes no sense for a model whose legs are twice the height of a Space marine to move as slow as infantry. Eldar don't build slow lumbering machines.

Sure. Just pay for it.

On the already overpriced model? We are right now.

Oh WraithLORD. Nm. Give the Wraithlord stuff for sure. Since the Wraithlord actually dies to poison and krak missiles, I wouldn't mind it getting substantial buffs.

Martel732 wrote:

Oh WraithLORD. Nm. Give the Wraithlord stuff for sure. Since the Wraithlord actually dies to poison and krak missiles, I wouldn't mind it getting substantial buffs.

Yep. This thread is meant to buff "OVERLOOKED" units, not over-used ones. Don't feel bad, almost everyone thinks you're talking about the WK at first when you mention the WL.
This rule would also create an interesting movement "scale" with WG moving 6", WL moving 9", WK moving 12" with Jump

--

I love the WL model too. And they are probably much easier to build, so you'd actually so way more of them than WK.

Martel732 wrote:
I love the WL model too. And they are probably much easier to build, so you'd actually so way more of them than WK.

Yeah, I'd love it if 2 WLs were a viable alternative to 1 WK (requiring a slight nerf to the WK, of course)

The devil fish needs to have its dakka nerfed and its price lowered to about 60 points after losing its burst cannon. or it should also be given a SMS for "free" as an option like how it is with the other two tanks. (A sms already costs 24 points because of the drones you trade away, so why pay an extra 10 points on top of the lost drones?) make the hull mounted burst cannon an upgrade.

The devilfish is simply too costly at 85 points raw for a transport. It's a nice transport sure, but I feel like its price is prohibitive, for a 108 point unit of fire warriors. You might see less gunline tau and more zippy objective grabbing fast response style lists if this change happened, and you'd also see breaches be considered more as an actual option. (Breachers are fine, the devil fish's price is what makes them questionable.)

In otherwords I'm wanting to see a devilfish start out as just a sturdy floating box at 60-70 points, with weapon systems being made into options that raise the price whilst not being required in the standard build. A 60-70 point troop transport with a SMS might actually something I'd consider.

 Jaxler wrote:
The devil fish needs to have its dakka nerfed and its price lowered to about 60 points after losing its burst cannon. or it should also be given a SMS for "free" as an option like how it is with the other two tanks. (A sms already costs 24 points because of the drones you trade away, so why pay an extra 10 points on top of the lost drones?) make the hull mounted burst cannon an upgrade.

The devilfish is simply too costly at 85 points raw for a transport. It's a nice transport sure, but I feel like its price is prohibitive, for a 108 point unit of fire warriors. You might see less gunline tau and more zippy objective grabbing fast response style lists if this change happened, and you'd also see breaches be considered more as an actual option. (Breachers are fine, the devil fish's price is what makes them questionable.)

In otherwords I'm wanting to see a devilfish start out as just a sturdy floating box at 60-70 points, with weapon systems being made into options that raise the price whilst not being required in the standard build.

Actually I'll one up you here. I'd like to see all Tau vehicles become viable again for diversity's sake. And the models look fantastic.

List in the Codex skitarii under vanguard: May take rhinos/ chimera as transports

Martel732 wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
The devil fish needs to have its dakka nerfed and its price lowered to about 60 points after losing its burst cannon. or it should also be given a SMS for "free" as an option like how it is with the other two tanks. (A sms already costs 24 points because of the drones you trade away, so why pay an extra 10 points on top of the lost drones?) make the hull mounted burst cannon an upgrade.

The devilfish is simply too costly at 85 points raw for a transport. It's a nice transport sure, but I feel like its price is prohibitive, for a 108 point unit of fire warriors. You might see less gunline tau and more zippy objective grabbing fast response style lists if this change happened, and you'd also see breaches be considered more as an actual option. (Breachers are fine, the devil fish's price is what makes them questionable.)

In otherwords I'm wanting to see a devilfish start out as just a sturdy floating box at 60-70 points, with weapon systems being made into options that raise the price whilst not being required in the standard build.

Actually I'll one up you here. I'd like to see all Tau vehicles become viable again for diversity's sake. And the models look fantastic.

Agreed, though skyray a still hold up. Too bad you can't fit them in the decurion =\ also long strike is situational, and isn't too bad. I'd defibetly call him viable. Piranhas are only good though if you own 16 and your meta hasn't decided that piranha drone factory isn't RAI. Even then the factory isn't that op.. Just pop the one lead pirhana.

Even long strike suffers from single shot AT being useless vs MCs and marginal vs actual vehicles.

The Hammerhead should be a damn nightmare, but instead it's lame. I hate that so much. It should have the D weapon, not the Stormsurge.

Martel732 wrote:
Even long strike suffers from single shot AT being useless vs MCs and marginal vs actual vehicles.

The Hammerhead should be a damn nightmare, but instead it's lame. I hate that so much. It should have the D weapon, not the Stormsurge.

I feel like rail weapons in general need a bit more teeth. As much as I hate the whole "distroys vehicles" being something that everything does now with ease, I feel like rail weapons need something to make them actually worth fearing. They used to be tau's bread in butter. Maybe something like giving them +1 on the pen table by default. I feel like making them D or bigger doesn't fit the lore. They don't delete a tank into nothing, they cut through it like butter and scramble the crew. 3+ (2 for ap 1 and the an extra from the purposes buff) would make them actually have the teeth needed to hurt something if they hit. Nothing feels worse than hitting a battle wagon with long strike only for it to get a weapon destroyed or something equally minor with what is said to turn leman Russ tanks into terrain pieces. Also making rail sides be able to pop things easier would make them far better AA guys. right now that's the only role you'd consider them for, might as well make them decent at it.

Doomsday Cannon stationary profile to SD.

I don't care about the lore, though. A weapon that large should be a D weapon. To scale, that is an enormous rail slug. It's going to cause more than one wound to an MC, if not vaporize it in one shot.

Land Raiders get 4++ Invuln from shots coming from the front.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Land Raiders get 4++ Invuln from shots coming from the front.

Why just the front?

Scrolls of Magnus

Either make it that you roll ar the start of the lsychic phase, and the power you get can be casted immediately with no range restriction (regardless of if you know it already or not).

Or you can choose which discipline you want to roll on, however you cant pick the same discipline twice in a row (even if it fails because you already know the power)

Martel732 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Land Raiders get 4++ Invuln from shots coming from the front.

Why just the front?

It's supposed to be a single, tiny buff no? If I wanted to give a complete list of buffs to make the Land Raider viable:

-Ability to reroll dangerous terrain checks. Why would one of the mightiest tanks in the Imperium throw a track by driving over some rubble?

-The Lascannons count as being a two shot weapon instead of twin-linked. Two Lascannon shots don't cut it anymore. Call it the phobos pattern Lascannon or something.

-A 4++ Invuln. This represents the tank's obscene armor.

-Give the option to replace the Twin-linked Heavy Bolter with a Grav-cannon for like 25 points. Chaos Land Raiders can get a bale flamer for the same cost.

This way, the Land Raider can fulfill it's lore role of being a heavy weapons platform as well as a tough as nails transport.

Oh I got another one:

Exalted Flamer is Jetpack Infantry (they're relentless if I remember).

Boom, all problems with the unit solved.

Fair enough. I think that built in dozer blade would be better than 4++ in the front lol.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Oh I got another one:

Exalted Flamer is Jetpack Infantry (they're relentless if I remember).

Boom, all problems with the unit solved.

YES PLEASE!!!! Regular Flamers are Jump Infantry already, so making the bigger version Jetpack Infantry would not be a stretch of the imagination. Getting Relentless to shoot its heavy weapon would make it field-able.