Turkey - Coup D'etat?

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**Breotan**

News commentators are expectant that he'll use this as an excuse to consolidate even more power.

**Howard A Treesong**

Apparently 104 plotters have been killed. But I'm sure they were all unavoidable and everyone else accused will get a fair hearing and their humans rights respected during any investigation.

**Breotan**

Some of those "plotters" were fighting with police and other security forces.

**Soladrin**

Erdogan is reinstating the death penalty. Fun.

**Wyrmalla**

So when are we invading these guys?

**Witzkatz**

Wyrmalla wrote:
So when are we invading these guys?

Hopefully never...the involvement of the local imams and the order to all believers to aid Erdogan in the name of Allah and the Quran is already a warning sign for a possibly too large influence of religion in government. A foreign (western) attacker would probably ramp up the religious-nationalistic propaganda to 11.

Turkey is one of those predominantly Muslim countries with a somewhat stable middle class, didn't we discuss this in the Nice thread? Let's try and not ruin another ME middle class by foreign military involvement, in my opinion.

welt.de is reporting the following: During a speech of Erdogan, the crowd in front of him was shouting: "Here is the commander, here is the army! Say it, and we kill! Say it and we die! Allahu akbar"

...I'm calling this a not-positive development. Turkey as a secular state, please, yes, but less fanatical, possibly religious Führer-like fanaticism.

**CptJake**

Sounds like power was cut to Incirlik Air Base.

**Future War Cultist**

With all that we know now, how many of you would say that this is a false flag operation instigated by Erdogan in order to consolidate his power and bump off his rivals?

**Howard A Treesong**

It probably isn't a false flag, but Erdogan will use this as an opportunity to round up as much opposition as he can and remove them from power or imprison them, while introducing more authoritarian laws.

**Witzkatz**

Future War Cultist wrote:
With all that we know now, how many of you would say that this is a false flag operation instigated by Erdogan in order to consolidate his power and bump off his rivals?

Having helicopters fire onto the capital, dropping bombs on governmental buildings...I don't know, this false flag would have to be constructed SO carefully that EVERYBODY involved, including the thousands of soldiers on lower ranks involved in getting an operation like this done, keeps their mouth shut about the "real" reasons...it seems too elaborate to pull off, too many people involved that you can't all screen thoroughly enough to make sure they don't rat out on a scheme of this magnitude.

On the other hand, it does seem a bit weird that so many previous coups in Turkey have been successful, and now this one isn't, suddendly. A shift in the internal politics of the military, perhaps?

Spiegel.de just reported that Erdogan is getting rid of three thousand judges immediately. He IS using this to clean house and get rid of his opposition. This plot has indeed achieved the exact opposite of what it seemingly wanted to achieve.

**Howard A Treesong**

You wouldn't need everyone to be in on it. You could have a few spies and agent provocateurs that encouraged others to start a coup, which they then undermined so that it collapsed. That way most people involved were taking part in a genuine coup and exposed themselves as anti-government, but which had no chance of succeeding. There's no way the thousands involved in this were not doing so in the belief of making a genuine attempt.

**Tjomball**

This will give a paranoid leader every bit of ammunition he has ever wanted to fight the opposition..
Turkey will become more authoritariona and totalitarian as a result from this.
At least judging from Erdogans statements.
And correct me if I'm wrong here.
But hasn't Erdogan reinstated the death penalty?
And this country wants to join the EU.
I sincerely hope the European Parliament looks at that country and sees it for what it is..
A quasi dictatorship.
When Janukovitch got sacked there were little protests from western leaders. And he was also "democratically elected".
So the support of Erdogan from the White House seems a bit odd all things considered..
I guess some elected leaders are more equal than others in this case..
Personally I'm glad my country is not a member of the EU now. I would not want Turkey to have ANY influence on our Politics at all.
But alas they do.
Erdogan currently holds the EU "hostage" by threatening to flood the continent with unchecked refugees.
This is extortion tactics from Erdogans side. And it goes a long way in showing what kind of leader he really is..
And the fact that a once Secular state has become more religious despite the fething constitution is also worrying..
Atatürk must be rotating at 12000 RPM in his grave.
Erdogan is undermining the foundations of the modern Turkish state by giving the religious nutjobs more power..
Anyone who kowtows to an old ghost story does not deserve any government post or any power at all.
I fear for Europe's future now.

**Ketara**

I thought it strange that a coup was launched without any seeming plan to dispose of Erdogan. It would indicate either one of three things

1. Erdogan deliberately stirred it up.
2. The coup leaders assumed infinitely more military support than they actually had (not necessarily contradictory to Number 1).
3. Something occurred to pressure them into moving before they were ready.

**Mezmaron**

Ketara wrote:
I thought it strange that a coup was launched without any seeming plan to dispose of Erdogan. It would indicate either one of three things

1. Erdogan deliberately stirred it up.
2. The coup leaders assumed infinitely more military support than they actually had (not necessarily contradictory to Number 1).
3. Something occurred to pressure them into moving before they were ready.

Yes, it was stupid for them to initiate it if they couldn't neutralize Erdogan. First step of a successful coup d'etat -- cut off the head of the snake.

Mez

**Lone Cat**

The Coup failed. and it came before the new constitution draft referrendum day of 7th August. the new constitution that officially established the Aristocracy in Thailand.

Another reasons these Turk renegade troops failed is that they failed to establish a supportive popular fronts there.

**Rosebuddy**

Ketara wrote:
I thought it strange that a coup was launched without any seeming plan to dispose of Erdogan. It would indicate either one of three things

1. Erdogan deliberately stirred it up.
2. The coup leaders assumed infinitely more military support than they actually had (not necessarily contradictory to Number 1).
3. Something occurred to pressure them into moving before they were ready.

I've briefly heard it's #3, that the coup was known and was about to be prosecuted so the people planning it panicked

**Iron_Captain**

This was going to end badly no matter the outcome. It would have been a sad day for democracy if the military had taken control, but it is an equally sad day for democracy that Erdogan remains in power. Erdogan may have been elected, but being elected does unfortenately not neccessarily make you a democratic leader. Hitler probably being the saddest example of this.
Erdogan is a dictator of the purest sort, and this failed coup will only serve to further his autocratic goals. It also stinks heavily of conspiracy. It reminds me a lot of the appartment bombings in Russia.

**Future War Cultist**

It's a depressing situation. I would hope though that whatever he does next at least kills any chance of Turkey joining the EU. And seriously, I think now we should be kicking Turkey out of NATO.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Whilst browsing through the comments section on this story in the Guardian newspaper, I came across this interesting comment.

This could be a true comment, or it could be an opportunity to take advantage of that 2 for 1 offer on tinfoil hats at your local store.

Anyway, please remember, I'm just the messenger

original swear words edited so as not to annoy the mods.

Try this for size …

Watching events unfold on CNN Türk, it all looked very stagey to us. Of course the bloodshed is atrocious but I figure it's just more of the same to add to the list of Erdoğan's mendacious gak–stirring this past year.

For that matter, why would any military strategist choose rush hour on a Friday evening to take control of a country? In 1980 the army shut everything down in the wee hours of the morning and Turkey woke up to thousands of soldiers lining the streets of her major cities, every political figure of any significance under arrest and absolutely no one daring go on the streets because the military meant business.

Last night's fiasco with a handful of tanks and trucks here and there for show was all about how the government held it together with a handful of FaceTime accounts (interesting how that was still online when Facebook and Twitter were effectively shut down) and the support of a shower of have–a–go yobs winging it on the myth of social media.

The folk defending Gezi Parkı a couple of summers back were a real movement of people from all backgrounds whereas Erdoğan's supporters were so laid back and obviously enjoying themselves as they trooped into the airport last night the only thing missing was their sombreros and wheelie luggage.

The only words of sense came from deputy prime minister Tuğrol Türkeş who pointed the fact there were no "faces" to this coup, no senior military figures making a statement, before declining to "speculate" further.

Of course the message to America is "hand over Fethullah Gülen now you see how much trouble he's causing us and let's forget about the fact that Tazyik Erdoğan was only yesterday morning fending off laughter as he stooped to have an eminent judge lie to the public about the non–existent diploma qualifying him for the office of president along with the rest of his bullgak".

After all who needs a diploma when he's Bill Pullman or Harrison Ford or whoever plays the American President flying around in Air Force One in all them disaster movies anyway? Right?

We went from shock at 10pm GMT to scepticism at midnight and by the time the State broadcaster, TRT, was "liberated" from the clutches of a handful of soldiers in what looked like they were celebrating an impromptu Eurovision win … outright laughter.

And this morning we are treated to this gem where CNN journalists finally get their five minutes of action after pushing bull all night.

I've seen heavier fighting at Debenham's* on a sale day.

* for non-UK dakka members, Debenhams is a chain of shops.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tactical_Spam wrote:
Does anyone know if the ramifications of NATO take effect if Turkey has a civil war?

Years ago, we had a fight between Greece and Turkey (both NATO members) over Cyprus, and the other NATO members either stayed neutral, or sent Henry Kissinger in to secure a 'peace deal.'

**CptJake**

Watching the way the tanks were maneuvering and seeing the actions of some of the other rebels, I was very much under the impression they did not want to be responsible for a lot of civilian bloodshed.

I think that may have hampered them, but was very much a 'good thing'. It could have been a lot worse.

**Whirlwind**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Ketara wrote:
I thought it strange that a coup was launched without any seeming plan to dispose of Erdogan. It would indicate either one of three things

1. Erdogan deliberately stirred it up.
2. The coup leaders assumed infinitely more military support than they actually had (not necessarily contradictory to Number 1).
3. Something occurred to pressure them into moving before they were ready.

I've briefly heard it's #3, that the coup was known and was about to be prosecuted so the people planning it panicked

There's another option to #3 as well. If they knew they had been found out, they could have sacrificed some of the pawns and make it look like the true coup. Set it up to fail (i.e. start it in rush hour) and then go back into hiding and planning. The government thinks they have controlled it and they wait for a more opportune to try again.

However it does look like Turkey will now head the same way as Egypt; basically if you speak out expect to disappear.

**Breotan**

Whatever happened to that comedian in Germany that Erdogan wanted prosecuted?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Just read a headline sayign that Erdogan is calling the coup a "gift from god" and is making the most of it by purging "3000 secular judges".

What the feth...what the flying feth!

**Breotan**

So, President Obama, do you hand over this cleric as Erdogan is asking? If so, are you sending an innocent man to prison or death just because Erdogan wants all his enemies eliminated? Or are you sending an agitator to his rightful punishment? Given you were caught completely off guard by this failed coup attempt, how will you ever know?

Things like this are your legacy, Mr. President. Under your watch, the world has become a much more dangerous place.

**d-usa**

I didn't know Obama was on Dakka!

I wonder what army he plays?

**Breotan**

d-usa wrote:
I didn't know Obama was on Dakka!

I wonder what army he plays?

Orks. That way he can boast about having the coolest models while crying victim because 40k hates his army and gives them no love. Oh, wait. That's me with my Bretonnians. Nevermind.

**Tjomball**

d-usa wrote:
I didn't know Obama was on Dakka!

I wonder what army he plays?

He obviously plays Infinity and USARF..

**Future War Cultist**

Breotan wrote:
So, President Obama, do you hand over this cleric as Erdogan is asking? If so, are you sending an innocent man to prison or death just because Erdogan wants all his enemies eliminated? Or are you sending an agitator to his rightful punishment? Given you were caught completely off guard by this failed coup attempt, how will you ever know?

Things like this are your legacy, Mr. President. Under your watch, the world has become a much more dangerous place.

I can guarantee without uncertainty that he'll do the wrong thing. Why would he break the habit of a lifetime?

**Ouze**

Man, this went to "Thanks, Obama" pretty fast, huh?

**Dreadwinter**

Ouze wrote:
Man, this went to "Thanks, Obama" pretty fast, huh?

Well, in their defense, they are running out of time to use it. Then it will be "Thanks, Hillary" all day, every day.