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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:11:26
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Douglas Bader
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It's unfortunate that this trend consists entirely of trolls voting "no". Automatically Appended Next Post: Quickjager wrote:Christ the sheer amount of personal attacks I'm seeing in this thread is disgusting. He isn't calling all Tau players donkey-caves or WAACs, he is just trying to get a point across about a damn unit. The fact the board is so vitriolic of a discussion is self-defeating, put him on the ignore list if you want but don't think you calling him names defeats an argument on it's own.
You're missing the fact that most of us have dealt with Traditio in the past. The "personal attacks" are entirely justified, and merely reference his previous statements about Tau players.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/22 06:12:23
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:16:55
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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the poll will be what it will be I imagine.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:17:16
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Traditio wrote:IllumiNini wrote:For the sake of our understanding, would you like to clarify exactly how you accounted for thing such as Standard Deviation? What exactly was your mathematical process?
I don't actually know how to calculate standard deviation (though, somehow, I did it as an undergrad in an intro to biology lab). However, if you consider the fact that we are dealing with a 48-52 split and a relatively small sample size, something like standard deviation indicates that the poll is much less of a loss on my part and could be anywhere from a more sizeable loss on my part to a narrow victory on my part.
So considering that you haven't done any calculations, I don't think it's fair for you to saying things along the lines of '...accounting for standard deviation...'. Also, even if we look at it on an intuitive level so that we may loosely consider the possible range of values for the standard deviation, that's still based of a set of results for the poll that are tainted by disingenuous/troll answers. Like with many of your polls (which these days attract a lot of trolling and disingenuous answers), the results are meaningless unless you can remove and/or account for the "Bad" data, but in this case clearly you haven't.
Traditio wrote:EDIT: Also, how have you accounted for the people that have obviously trolled your poll?
It works out in my favor. Those guys obviously all voted "yes." 
Not necessarily. It's a reasonable assumption that all the "Bad" answers to the poll as a result of trolling answered "Yes", but that's not guaranteed. So again, you have no way of accounting for this "Bad" data and no way of even accurately predicting the number and spread of these troll answers.
Traditio wrote:Also, how does a "Virtual Tie" (either imagined by you or an actual fact) indicate a 'Trend in Your Favour'?
That's how the poll is moving. It started out as a 20/80 split against my favor to roughly a 45/55 split earlier today, and is currently hovering at around a 48/52 split.
Assuming trends continue, the poll will end up in my favor.
Well then being a "Virtual Tie" has nothing to do with it because you're looking at a trend, not the result. Also consider the fact that the initial trend was significantly against you. What if that initial trend repeats itself? what if the trend turns into something that represents an even split? You're isolating a trend that supports you and ignoring the other trend(s).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:19:06
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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What else could it be?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:28:39
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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"If current trends continue" is not an accurate means of predicting the future, because trends change, disappear, and reverse over time. You are ignoring all trends except the ones that favor you.
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Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:30:56
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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who cares. Again, it will just be what it will be. So let the trending crap lie and lets get on with meaningful discourse!
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:33:58
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Quickjager wrote:Christ the sheer amount of personal attacks I'm seeing in this thread is disgusting. He isn't calling all Tau players donkey-caves or WAACs, he is just trying to get a point across about a damn unit. The fact the board is so vitriolic of a discussion is self-defeating, put him on the ignore list if you want but don't think you calling him names defeats an argument on it's own.
People wonder why certain factions are hated.
EDIT: Also Traditio quit trying to fething antagonize them, FFS I'm the one who is supposed to hate Tau here.
I do believe Traditio once made a thread calling all Tau units OP. Yesterday, he said Aun'va and Riptides were so broken that only people who hate themselves should run them. It's very much justified.
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Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:35:28
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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IllumiNini wrote:So considering that you haven't done any calculations, I don't think it's fair for you to saying things along the lines of '...accounting for standard deviation...'. Also, even if we look at it on an intuitive level so that we may loosely consider the possible range of values for the standard deviation
That's ultimately all that I'm doing, and I don't think that it's really unfair to claim such a thing. We're talking about a 48/52 split with a relatively small sample size. Do you think that standard deviation is less than 2 percent?
I don't know. Let's figure this out:
"The margin of error in a sample = 1 divided by the square root of the number of people in the sample."
A quote from a random website I found.
There are roughly 200 poll respondents. The square root of 200 is roughly 14. 1/14 = roughly 7 percent.
So, going by this formula, the poll results, given the margin of error, could be anywhere from a 41/59 split (against my favor) to a 55/45 split (in my favor).
Worst case scenario (relative to me), tau players should stop using riptides in casual settings.
Best case scenario, they should bury their riptides under their front lawn as part of a time capsule, to be uncovered by some future generation, whereupon they shall discover a note that reads: "Here lies the riptide, an abomination unto 6th edition."
that's still based of a set of results for the poll that are tainted by disingenuous/troll answers. Like with many of your polls (which these days attract a lot of trolling and disingenuous answers), the results are meaningless unless you can remove and/or account for the "Bad" data, but in this case clearly you haven't.
Hm?
Oh, no. I've accounted for this. Assume that all of the troll answers are in the "yes" column and calculate accordingly. If you consider the number of people who regularly are inclined to troll me, and assume that they all voted yes, the number of votes we can subtract is roughly 20 from the "yes" column. Thus we come to a 99 to 108 vote (well in my favor).
Long story short, I'm actually right, despite any appearances otherwise.
Not necessarily. It's a reasonable assumption that all the "Bad" answers to the poll as a result of trolling answered "Yes", but that's not guaranteed.
It's much more likely than not.
Well then being a "Virtual Tie" has nothing to do with it because you're looking at a trend, not the result. Also consider the fact that the initial trend was significantly against you. What if that initial trend repeats itself? what if the trend turns into something that represents an even split? You're isolating a trend that supports you and ignoring the other trend(s).
Only time shall tell.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/22 06:37:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:36:30
Subject: Re:Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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its fine
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:38:38
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Verviedi wrote: Quickjager wrote:Christ the sheer amount of personal attacks I'm seeing in this thread is disgusting. He isn't calling all Tau players donkey-caves or WAACs, he is just trying to get a point across about a damn unit. The fact the board is so vitriolic of a discussion is self-defeating, put him on the ignore list if you want but don't think you calling him names defeats an argument on it's own.
People wonder why certain factions are hated.
EDIT: Also Traditio quit trying to fething antagonize them, FFS I'm the one who is supposed to hate Tau here.
I do believe Traditio once made a thread calling all Tau units OP. Yesterday, he said Aun'va and Riptides were so broken that only people who hate themselves should run them. It's very much justified.
He also at least twice in the "balancing riptides" thread called Tau in general WAACTFGs. Think that was yesterday alone too
Trad: and what if everyone who trolled voted no? Do we get to remove 20 votes form you too? In that case it's 88 to 120.
No the correct answer is to acknowledge the poll as crap, and worthless because of several factors.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/22 06:42:06
DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+
bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/22 06:42:06
Subject: Are Riptides Fair/Balanced?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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To be clear, personal attacks are not justified by anyone else's behaviour, and are not acceptable even if someone plays with their toy soldiers differently to how you do it.
Several posts in this thread have skirted the line.
At this point, though, I'm uncertain of the point of a poll thread of the poster is just going to disregard the results anyway, so I think we're done here.
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