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Lady Atia has posted the Deathwatch datasheets.

I guess I am not seeing the same thing. on his page it looks like he may take a storm shield without replacing anything(but cost), Then the Terminator part comes in where he replaces specific gear to get the terminator armor. Is that not how it works? confused.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I missing something or is there no reason whatsoever to take any of the other Kill Teams beyond the Aquila Kill Team?

My thoughts as well. I've got a couple planned out. One is the missile launcher squad someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and the second is similar but with stalker bolters on the vets for sniping special ammo. It's probably going to be worse than I think it is, but let's hunt some xenos with it anyway! I don't want to drop a load of money kitting out a frag cannon drop team, but I also really do want a frag cannon drop team.

The other Kill Teams are going to be kind of meta-dependent, I think. Aquila is very TAC and the most customizable.

 conker249 wrote:
I guess I am not seeing the same thing. on his page it looks like he may take a storm shield without replacing anything(but cost), Then the Terminator part comes in where he replaces specific gear to get the terminator armor. Is that not how it works? confused.

Do you then think you can give him a termi armour and a jump pack too?

Under the normal marine codex, it has a statement that you can not do that, I didnt see that for this one, this is why I asked.

News for UK based people without a pre-order, Element Games now have additional copies of the game up:

http://elementgames.co.uk/new-releases/death-masque

watch team crull is unique veteran squad and captain has hatred
Watch team galateal is unique vanguard vet squad and captain has precision strike
Venerable dread nihilus is unique and has 6+ invul and 5+ invul vs witch fire powers.
The detschment combines both Squads if you want and Artemis and everyone can have hatred, reroll wounds and pen results of 1, precision strike, fnp, reroll charge and ignore disorder charge from heroic intervention and Artemis's fearless.
I haven't added the costs of the preset weapons on the units to see if it's discounted like the harley troupes.

Seems ok the named dreadnaut is a good venerable dread replacement.
And Artemis is very good
Weapon loadouts are mixed but the vanguard vets is a decent assault loadout

 conker249 wrote:
What is stopping the watch captain with terminator armor take a storm shield? It doesn't replace a weapon, just adds.

it is not an option for him

gungo wrote:
watch team crull is unique veteran squad and captain has hatred
Watch team galateal is unique vanguard vet squad and captain has precision strike
Venerable dread nihilus is unique and has 6+ invul and 5+ invul vs witch fire powers.
The detschment combines both Squads if you want and Artemis and everyone can have hatred, reroll wounds and pen results of 1, precision strike, fnp, reroll charge and ignore disorder charge from heroic intervention and Artemis's fearless.
I haven't added the costs of the preset weapons on the units to see if it's discounted like the harley troupes.

Seems ok the named dreadnaut is a good venerable dread replacement.
And Artemis is very good
Weapon loadouts are mixed but the vanguard vets is a decent assault loadout

Thanks for that, was wondering how long it would be until someone had the info.

Not very good formation bonuses though imo(when considering the limits required), which is good so I don't have to model and equip them like GW wants

Wachaza wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why the hell can't a Terminator HQ take a Storm Shield?

Why aren't rule and list brain farts which the player base picks up on in seconds not spotted at GW?

Needs a FAQ/errata the second it's released.

That assumes it was slip and not intentional due to say missing model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BossJakadakk wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I missing something or is there no reason whatsoever to take any of the other Kill Teams beyond the Aquila Kill Team?

My thoughts as well. I've got a couple planned out. One is the missile launcher squad someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and the second is similar but with stalker bolters on the vets for sniping special ammo. It's probably going to be worse than I think it is, but let's hunt some xenos with it anyway! I don't want to drop a load of money kitting out a frag cannon drop team, but I also really do want a frag cannon drop team.

The other Kill Teams are going to be kind of meta-dependent, I think. Aquila is very TAC and the most customizable.

The HS killing could be viable alternative. Reroll to penetration is quite a bit handier than reroll 1 to penetrate against heavier armour and that's a lot of HS.

Also against Tau the elite killing could be handy depending on your weapons.

Except for the plasma pistol, I like the Vanguard vet squad loadout.

Sorry if this has been asked, but what does the Clavis do??

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked, but what does the Clavis do??

Clavis; -1 to WS, BS and I to enemy vehicles at 6"

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Except for the plasma pistol, I like the Vanguard vet squad loadout.

Yea I like the venerable dread, vanguard squad, Artemis
The regular vet squad is blah so kinda a tax

The detschment bonus of reroll 1 to wound and pen, and fnp 6+ within 6in of Artemis is ok however prolly not worth the vet tax unless the vet squad and the vanguard vet squad have a standard loadout discount on points like the Harley units.

Even precision strikes is great with the leaders powersword vs units that bubble wrap thier ICs, however precision strike with heavy thunder hammers are better in the detschment. So this named unit will probably see some use beyond this detschment.

Edit: just checked the named vanguard vet squad with standard loadout pays 10pts for a character with +1 wound, precision strike, and the unit entry has the deepstrike rule whereas the vanguard vet squad doesn't but they are both jump pack units so I don't know why the difference.

The standard vet squad is normal loadout price but you get a character with +1 wound and hatred for free. However the loadout isn't optimal.

The veterans can all take shotguns at no cost. I fully intend to use two naked squads of them with deep strike, thanks to the Black Spear, in my 1850 List.

gungo wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Except for the plasma pistol, I like the Vanguard vet squad loadout.

Yea I like the venerable dread, vanguard squad, Artemis
The regular vet squad is blah so kinda a tax

The detschment bonus of reroll 1 to wound and pen, and fnp 6+ within 6in of Artemis is ok however prolly not worth the vet tax unless the vet squad and the vanguard vet squad have a standard loadout discount on points like the Harley units.

Even precision strikes is great with the leaders powersword vs units that bubble wrap thier ICs, however precision strike with heavy thunder hammers are better in the detschment. So this named unit will probably see some use beyond this detschment.

Edit: just checked the named vanguard vet squad with standard loadout pays 10pts for a character with +1 wound, precision strike, and the unit entry has the deepstrike rule whereas the vanguard vet squad doesn't but they are both jump pack units so I don't know why the difference.

Difference is only if they form a kill team I think, as deep strike would then confer to the entire squad.

gungo wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Except for the plasma pistol, I like the Vanguard vet squad loadout.

Yea I like the venerable dread, vanguard squad, Artemis
The regular vet squad is blah so kinda a tax

The detschment bonus of reroll 1 to wound and pen, and fnp 6+ within 6in of Artemis is ok however prolly not worth the vet tax unless the vet squad and the vanguard vet squad have a standard loadout discount on points like the Harley units.

Even precision strikes is great with the leaders powersword vs units that bubble wrap thier ICs, however precision strike with heavy thunder hammers are better in the detschment. So this named unit will probably see some use beyond this detschment.

Edit: just checked the named vanguard vet squad with standard loadout pays 10pts for a character with +1 wound, precision strike, and the unit entry has the deepstrike rule whereas the vanguard vet squad doesn't but they are both jump pack units so I don't know why the difference.

Just being Jump gives them deepstrike even if it's not listed.

That squads problem is it is in TWC/Wulfen price range without any assault from reserves etc rules. So all your opponent has to do is 6 t4 3++ wounds with basic shooting.

Was really hoping for a bonus like Skyhammer, that other vangurd vet formation with assault from reserves, etc

As a competitive gamer I can see Aquila Kill Team being the go to choice in 99% of situations. I just don't see the point of any of the others. There is no point taking any of the others. Great GW. Thankfully this is a really great release other than those limp formations.

First GenCon, and now Death Watch. August is going to be a very expensive month!

So I'm actually a bit intrigued by the Dominatus Formation. In the Watch Company, it can reroll on HQ, Elite, IC, and Psykers. If combined with a Mission Tactic, you basically get Vanguards with PE: Everything. How's this for a load out?


5x Vanguard Vets: Jump Packs
2x Hvy Thunder Hammers // 3x Storm Shield // 3x DW Shotgun


It's 215pts before Shotguns which are likely free or 5-10 each. While that's crazy expensive, they are comparable to Sanguinary Guard in weight of attacks/templates/AP 2. Alternatively, no Storm Shields drops them to 170pts with just a pair of HTHs.


While the rest of my army is gonna be Aquilla (same as Furor and Malleus) Kill Teams.

Shotguns are free iirc, but vanguard can't take shotguns.

I just wish you could buy VVs (or HQs) a Second Bolt Pistol for Pseudo Destroyer Squads with the Special Issue Ammo.

Question: can you use overkill formations and characters in the black spear detachment?

Yes, at least Artemis and the Squads can sub in for other squads.

I just noticed something - The Banebolts of Eryxia have a stalker pattern profile -- yet no character with access to relics can take a stalker pattern boltgun. I was thinking of modeling a cool sniper watch-captain similar to Sgt. Telion and making a kill team designed to lurk on the rear line and take out key targets from afar. I can still do that, with a veteran squad, but no stalker boltguns on characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RedFox wrote:
Question: can you use overkill formations and characters in the black spear detachment?

At present, deathwatch overkill has no errata stating that the characters and formations can be substituted for the black spear detachment. However we have seen that the Kill Team Cassius box will be for preorder this weekend, and I would anticipate that the rules sheet included with that kit will detail that they can be substituted, similar to the death masque characters.

Also of note the death masque units only work for a Strategium Command Team, Dominatus Kill Team, and Aquila Kill Team. All the other KT's in the codex require a biker or terminator, making the model count too high if you include both death masque units. Although it should be said you can include the Death Masque Veterans in one Kill Team and the Death Mask Vanguard in a separate kill team and be OK - but the vanguards plus 5 veterans is 10 models so again they're only useful in the aquila or dominatus teams.

Am I understanding right that with the boxed set formation, you DON'T have to do the "one big unit thing" and thus you can get at least some jump packs who are not glued to normal infantry?

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Am I understanding right that with the boxed set formation, you DON'T have to do the "one big unit thing" and thus you can get at least some jump packs who are not glued to normal infantry?

Yes - Watch Force Artemis has the option to deploy together as a kill team, or separately as normal units. Kill Team Cassius is the other kill team that has this option - all other kill team datasheets say the non-vehicle units must form one unit.

One good thing to note - IC's can join the deathwatch kill teams, so you can take 1-3 chaplains, librarians, watch captains etc and put them into your kill teams.

So about that lack of pistols, I just realised something hilarious/bloody stupid. Veterans can replace their CC weapon with a bolter for free. And they can replace their bolter with a shotgun for free. So every veteran can have BOTH a bolter and a shotgun for free! No need for pistols, you can use your free shotgun while assaulting! It would just look bloody stupid.

 Crimson wrote:
So about that lack of pistols, I just realised something hilarious/bloody stupid. Veterans can replace their CC weapon with a bolter for free. And they can replace their bolter with a shotgun for free. So every veteran can have BOTH a bolter and a shotgun for free! No need for pistols, you can use your free shotgun while assaulting! It would just look bloody stupid.

OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.