Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

sizzlebutt666 wrote:
OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

Unless the army is entirely Deathwatch. Then you're gonna want something that comes in (or is already on the board) on turn one. Or does the formation give you something for turn one and I missed it?

Crimson wrote:So about that lack of pistols, I just realised something hilarious/bloody stupid. Veterans can replace their CC weapon with a bolter for free. And they can replace their bolter with a shotgun for free. So every veteran can have BOTH a bolter and a shotgun for free! No need for pistols, you can use your free shotgun while assaulting! It would just look bloody stupid.

Slapping a shotgun across their back a'la gears of war would probably look alright. and you're right - having an assault 2 shred weapon beats the hell out of a pistol.

sizzlebutt666 wrote:OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

I like it too. Dreadnoughts will still require drop pods, and I think having 1 or 3 in an army isn't a bad call.

sizzlebutt666 wrote:
OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

Drop pods are still good for Drop Pod assault. I'm definitely not giving up that benefit.

One thing you could do (although it may be a waste of points) is when taking a heavy weapon you can swap a veterans close combat weapon with a storm shield. May make for some cool models in the squad? (Doing this may be good if you are running a veteran squad who is going to be assaulting).

Warhammer TV has posted a Eldrad Ulthran Painting Tutorial on their Facebook page.

Has anyone looked at the Veteran's entry to see that you can equip all of your vets with shotguns for free and STILL keep the bolter? It's weird, and I'm sure it's not intended but...

1. Each vet starts with Bolter & CCW
2. Any vet can replace his Bolter with a Shotgun -- for free
3. Any vet can replace his CCW with a Bolter --for free

Conclusion: You still retain your special ammo so there is absolutely no reason not to do this. There's no downside at all...

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Has anyone looked at the Veteran's entry to see that you can equip all of your vets with shotguns for free and STILL keep the bolter? It's weird, and I'm sure it's not intended but...

1. Each vet starts with Bolter & CCW
2. Any vet can replace his Bolter with a Shotgun -- for free
3. Any vet can replace his CCW with a Bolter --for free

Conclusion: You still retain your special ammo so their is absolutely no reason not to do this. There's no downside at all...

In fact, by doing this you can retain a boltgun on all special weapons in the squad - making it a no-brainer as well. The guy packing a meltagun? he's got a boltgun on his back ready to go when he needs the special ammo. It's awesome.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Has anyone looked at the Veteran's entry to see that you can equip all of your vets with shotguns for free and STILL keep the bolter? It's weird, and I'm sure it's not intended but...

1. Each vet starts with Bolter & CCW
2. Any vet can replace his Bolter with a Shotgun -- for free
3. Any vet can replace his CCW with a Bolter --for free

Conclusion: You still retain your special ammo so their is absolutely no reason not to do this. There's no downside at all...

In fact, by doing this you can retain a boltgun on all special weapons in the squad - making it a no-brainer as well. The guy packing a meltagun? he's got a boltgun on his back ready to go when he needs the special ammo. It's awesome.

Very true.

So what you're saying is... frag launchers on 4, grav guns/melta guns on the rest, and bolters on everyone, in a drop pod.

 Wolfblade wrote:
So what you're saying is... frag launchers on 4, grav guns/melta guns on the rest, and bolters on everyone, in a drop pod.

I would instead do a unit of 4 frag cannons, a heavy flamer terminator or two, and shotguns/bolters on the rest of the veterans in a drop pod.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
So what you're saying is... frag launchers on 4, grav guns/melta guns on the rest, and bolters on everyone, in a drop pod.

I would instead do a unit of 4 frag cannons, a heavy flamer terminator or two, and shotguns/bolters on the rest of the veterans in a drop pod.

You don't need the flamer termie though, you already have 8 S6 rending templates. Melta/grav guns allow the rest of the unit to threaten whatever the frag cannons shoot at, and bolters give the option of hitting a target at 30"

 Wolfblade wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
So what you're saying is... frag launchers on 4, grav guns/melta guns on the rest, and bolters on everyone, in a drop pod.

I would instead do a unit of 4 frag cannons, a heavy flamer terminator or two, and shotguns/bolters on the rest of the veterans in a drop pod.

You don't need the flamer termie though, you already have 8 S6 rending templates. Melta/grav guns allow the rest of the unit to threaten whatever the frag cannons shoot at, and bolters give the option of hitting a target at 30"

Frag cannons can fire s7 ap3 or s9 ap2 depending on range - they can handle just about any target you give to them. The heavy flamer termies add more wall of death plus have powerfists and can go in front to tank with 2+ armor.

The possibilities are quite bountiful with this book - every unit has access to a great armory. Go wild.

edit - i'm just more concerned how i'm going to get ahold of deathwatch frag cannons without resorting to heavy conversions.

Anyone have all the prices leaked so far? Can't find in the OP.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Frag cannons can fire s7 ap3 or s9 ap2 depending on range.

And a scound fire mode with a template

for Termis I woulkd use the build in Melter Fist and a shield

I love the smell of cheese in the morning!

 kodos wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Frag cannons can fire s7 ap3 or s9 ap2 depending on range.

And a scound fire mode with a template

for Termis I woulkd use the build in Melter Fist and a shield

Terminators can either:

swap the fist for a chainfist, power weapon, or meltafist

swap the storm bolter for a heavy flamer or assault cannon

Take a cyclone launcher

OR replace all his weapons (listed above) for either a TH/SS or 2x Lightning claws. So no meltafist/storm shield terminators. All that said it's really looking like you can kit out your models however you like best (according to their available choices) and they'll find some use in a battle.

tetrisphreak wrote:...OR replace all his weapons (listed above)...

To be truly accurate, you really need to remove the word ALL from the above statement. I'm not sure it makes a difference, but I think you might be able to make a case the the CML at least doesn't actually need to be replaced and therefore may still be retained. You could also argue that it doesn't need to say "all" for the meaning to be clear though...

But certainly, you can't pull shenanigans like Metafist and Stormshield.

If Veterans can indeed use both a shotgun and their normal gun, that means Veterans can now be:

16" S4AP- Assault 2, Shred, S4AP4 Assault 2, or S3 AP6 Assault 1 Template

OR

24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire, Ignore Cover
S1 AP 5 Rapid Fire Poison 2
18" S4 AP3 Rapid Fire Gets hot

as they choose. That level of flexibility is amazing to me.

 Crimson wrote:
So about that lack of pistols, I just realised something hilarious/bloody stupid. Veterans can replace their CC weapon with a bolter for free. And they can replace their bolter with a shotgun for free. So every veteran can have BOTH a bolter and a shotgun for free! No need for pistols, you can use your free shotgun while assaulting! It would just look bloody stupid.

It's not stupid... It's cool...
If the vanguards had the option to be bought withotu JP i would good use of a foot unit of 4 vanguards 5 veterans and 1 librarian inside a LR...

I think it is stupid to be able to equip two large shooting weapons and probably not intended. But this codex seems to be pretty badly designed, there are a lot of little oddities.

Hmm, looks like I'll have to come up with a name and some fluff for the special "compact" shotguns my Deathwatch will use that coincidentally happen to look exactly like holstered bolt pistols...

 Crimson wrote:
I think it is stupid to be able to equip two large shooting weapons

Hollywood say it is cool, not stupid
http://media1.break.com/breakstudios/2012/2/28/Machete.jpg
http://fanfictionsstargatesg1jacketsam.fr/spip/local/cache-vignettes/L400xH267/3_teal_c_arme_de_son_p90-2f058.jpg
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/2/24/Dillon_with_dual_HK94s.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140818185621

They dont even have to be dual wielding. The shotgun could literally just be slung.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
They dont even have to be dual wielding. The shotgun could literally just be slung.

That's how I intend to model mine.

sizzlebutt666 wrote:OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

Can you deep strike on turn one? If not, then it's an auto loss if you have no units on the board correct?

Davor wrote:

sizzlebutt666 wrote:OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

Can you deep strike on turn one? If not, then it's an auto loss if you have no units on the board correct?

That is correct. But nothing forces a Deep Strike.

Davor wrote:

sizzlebutt666 wrote:OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

Can you deep strike on turn one? If not, then it's an auto loss if you have no units on the board correct?

Nope. You must have units on the board.

pm713 wrote:

Davor wrote:

sizzlebutt666 wrote:OH wow I finally saw the Black Spear Strike Force gives everything Deep Strike, so no actual need for Drop Pods!!! This is a seriously strong detachment, with Deep Strike and rerolling so many dice, I don't think I even need Librarians.

Can you deep strike on turn one? If not, then it's an auto loss if you have no units on the board correct?

That is correct. But nothing forces a Deep Strike.

Correct. So you can elect to Deep Strike some units while keeping others on the board. One good option would be to get some bikes on the board early with the Deathwatch Teleport Homer and then move them up as far as they can go (while maintaining coherency), then deep striking the other unit the maximum distance away from them to wreck face.

On a side note, between the Aquila Kill Team doing what all the other Kill Teams do at the same time and the Bolter/Shotgun debacle, it makes me wonder if GW actually proofread this book.

The Aquila Killteam only Re-rolls 1s, and I believe in the video with PK and RC was described as being the "Jack of all Trades" Killteam vs the more specialized other Killteams.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The Aquila Killteam only Re-rolls 1s, and I believe in the video with PK and RC was described as being the "Jack of all Trades" Killteam vs the more specialized other Killteams.

But they're not "more specialized", there in effect worse. Because Aquillas do everything, basically.

Edit** I recognize some Kill-Teams reroll all to-wounds rolls, but I don't think it justifies how much "better" Aquillas are in general. I will likely only ever use an Aquilla.

Hell, my 1850 List uses -5- Aquillas.