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 Pacific wrote:
Definitely like the look of the new elves, although the treeman thing looks like it doesn't want to be there!

Promising though that there is news of the next new faction coming along, hopefully the army lists of the existing two will be padded out along the same time.

Apparently the rulebook has a "factions of the world" kind of section that contains info on 4 factions. The last one is something akin to Chaos (demon warped cultists).

They will soon be releasing the Mounted heroes and unit additions for the existing factions I believe. Also, the humans will likely pick up the elves since those archers can be hired with the hero in the starter and will give them some ranged attacks to work with.

 Galas wrote:

I'm not saying that to accuse Runewars of plagiarism. I just say that because... if you are gonna be basically the same, why don't just pay for a licensed product?

PD: I know, having more control abour your IP and all that...its just that I want a Warcraft wargame

If the figs look like Warcraft to you than paint them as such and have at it! Don't let anyone tell you what universe your little guys are fighting in. As I said in my review earlier, I decide what figs to buy, what rules to use and what background to set my battles in.

As for the WoW IP, I would suggest that while WoW could defintiely bring along a new audience, the cost of such a license and the hassle of giving up alot of design control might well be prohibitive.

The mounted hero for the humans is what really gets me. That guy is just.... not... impressive. I don't think there's any fixing him with color scheme, which is a huge disappointment for me.

"Essentials" pack just announced.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/10/runewars-miniatures-game-essentials-pack/
Basically it's a 25 buck box with all the movement and terrain templates. cards, measuring sticks and tokens you'd need to play the game if you didn't buy the boxed set. Should make Latari fans happy.

Doesn't come with the rules and though they are a free download it seems like it wouldn't have taken much to include them in the box. Does have the dice though so if you buy your minis and download the rules, this would be all that you need to play.

LunarSol wrote:

Apparently the rulebook has a "factions of the world" kind of section that contains info on 4 factions. The last one is something akin to Chaos (demon warped cultists).

The box has a "Lore Guide" booklet. It's nice enough and gives a bit of background and some pretty art, but as others have said it's nothing groundbreaking and not much detail. There are 3 pieces of fiction and each faction gets a two page piece of nice landscape art and 2-4 pages of background. A basic jumpstart into the runebound world.

As you say there is a Chaos-ish faction, the Uthak.


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 LunarSol wrote:
The mounted hero for the humans is what really gets me. That guy is just.... not... impressive. I don't think there's any fixing him with color scheme, which is a huge disappointment for me.

I'm of two minds about him. I'm not wowed, but not totally disapointed either. If I end up disgusted, I'll proxy in diffferent minis on the same bases.

 Eilif wrote:
"Essentials" pack just announced.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/10/runewars-miniatures-game-essentials-pack/
Basically it's a 25 buck box with all the movement and terrain templates. cards, measuring sticks and tokens you'd need to play the game if you didn't buy the boxed set. Should make Latari fans happy.

$25 seems a bit steep when the army expansion is already $60. It makes the Elves cost $85, which is practically the cost for the base set ($100), which includes everything in the essentials pack plus two armies. Basically, Elves have to pay more to play the same game.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
"Essentials" pack just announced.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/10/runewars-miniatures-game-essentials-pack/
Basically it's a 25 buck box with all the movement and terrain templates. cards, measuring sticks and tokens you'd need to play the game if you didn't buy the boxed set. Should make Latari fans happy.

$25 seems a bit steep when the army expansion is already $60. It makes the Elves cost $85, which is practically the cost for the base set ($100), which includes everything in the essentials pack plus two armies. Basically, Elves have to pay more to play the same game.

True in almost all games with two player intro sets.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
"Essentials" pack just announced.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/10/runewars-miniatures-game-essentials-pack/
Basically it's a 25 buck box with all the movement and terrain templates. cards, measuring sticks and tokens you'd need to play the game if you didn't buy the boxed set. Should make Latari fans happy.

$25 seems a bit steep when the army expansion is already $60. It makes the Elves cost $85, which is practically the cost for the base set ($100), which includes everything in the essentials pack plus two armies. Basically, Elves have to pay more to play the same game.

True in almost all games with two player intro sets.

My thoughts exactly. I think it's nearly always true that you save money when you go with one of the factions in a starter set in any game you play. True for GW also, even though with GW you still have to buy codicies.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Basically, Elves have to pay more to play the same game.

True in almost all games with two player intro sets.

Well, it is more of a problem here because there are only three factions. It's hard to claim it is a discount when the majority of the factions are cheaper. Maybe once more factions are available, or the two base factions get their own army boxes individually, but right now, the Elves cost more than any other faction in the game.

Well, hopefully the elf set itself with have all the basic dials and such you need to run the army (amybe all that is needed is a set of litko movement templates). <edit> Wouldn't be surprised if the X-wing templates would actually work with this game. Morale deck may be the only other "needed" thing the elves doesn't come with, from the looks of the Essentials link.

Anyways, the elves was the faction I was looking forward to, I want to get it just for the lynx calvary alone.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Basically, Elves have to pay more to play the same game.

True in almost all games with two player intro sets.

Well, it is more of a problem here because there are only three factions. It's hard to claim it is a discount when the majority of the factions are cheaper. Maybe once more factions are available, or the two base factions get their own army boxes individually, but right now, the Elves cost more than any other faction in the game.

I think that FFG has hinted at another faciton to be released at the same time as the elves. The elf release is a ways off and FFG is releasing info at a quick pace, so it's probably to early to assume what will and won't be availble.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Basically, Elves have to pay more to play the same game.

True in almost all games with two player intro sets.

Well, it is more of a problem here because there are only three factions. It's hard to claim it is a discount when the majority of the factions are cheaper. Maybe once more factions are available, or the two base factions get their own army boxes individually, but right now, the Elves cost more than any other faction in the game.

I can't agree with that. A starter set is a starter set regardless of the number of factions with in the game. X-wing only had two factions for the longest time and the starter was cheaper, proportionally, than most any individual ship. Purchasing a larger amount of stuff is often going to result in bulk rates. Plus, as a two player game it can afford to be a bit of a loss leader to grow a player base. If none of that works, think of the elves as an expansion force until addition factions come out. I would hazard to guess that is why two player starter set even exist in the first place.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I can't agree with that. A starter set is a starter set regardless of the number of factions with in the game. X-wing only had two factions for the longest time and the starter was cheaper, proportionally, than most any individual ship. Purchasing a larger amount of stuff is often going to result in bulk rates. Plus, as a two player game it can afford to be a bit of a loss leader to grow a player base. If none of that works, think of the elves as an expansion force until addition factions come out. I would hazard to guess that is why two player starter set even exist in the first place.

Right now, FFG just doesn't have the options available for players to pick and choose which factions to play. For instance, if I wanted to play the Elves and the Humans, I'd have to buy the Undead too. And the Essentials Kit is expensive when you are just getting the Elves, but if the Humans were available as a separate kit, then each additional army box you buy won't require a second or third Essentials Kit, making it cheaper to pick up just the armies you want - but right now, only the Elves requires it. There will at least be a fourth faction (the red guys from BattleLore) by the end of the year according to the rumors.

I just think that FFG is approaching this miniatures game too much like they approach their boardgames. A "core" set and a bunch of big and small expansions - but I don't think a core set makes sense here, which is why they created the Essentials Kits. It's just a pared down core set that seems like an afterthought (it doesn't even have a real cover). Even the way their webpage/store is laid out like their board games, with all the unit expansions all jumbled together. That approach works with something like BattleLore, but I think it becomes a hindrance to a miniatures game - which requires a more organized, piecemeal approach. I like that FFG is going all in on the game (after BattleLore and Runebound, my faith in Terrinoth game support is not high), but I don't think they are willing to change their boardgame-centric approach for the game.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I can't agree with that. A starter set is a starter set regardless of the number of factions with in the game. X-wing only had two factions for the longest time and the starter was cheaper, proportionally, than most any individual ship. Purchasing a larger amount of stuff is often going to result in bulk rates. Plus, as a two player game it can afford to be a bit of a loss leader to grow a player base. If none of that works, think of the elves as an expansion force until addition factions come out. I would hazard to guess that is why two player starter set even exist in the first place.

Right now, FFG just doesn't have the options available for players to pick and choose which factions to play. For instance, if I wanted to play the Elves and the Humans, I'd have to buy the Undead too. And the Essentials Kit is expensive when you are just getting the Elves, but if the Humans were available as a separate kit, then each additional army box you buy won't require a second or third Essentials Kit, making it cheaper to pick up just the armies you want - but right now, only the Elves requires it. There will at least be a fourth faction (the red guys from BattleLore) by the end of the year according to the rumors.

I just think that FFG is approaching this miniatures game too much like they approach their boardgames. A "core" set and a bunch of big and small expansions - but I don't think a core set makes sense here, which is why they created the Essentials Kits. It's just a pared down core set that seems like an afterthought (it doesn't even have a real cover). Even the way their webpage/store is laid out like their board games, with all the unit expansions all jumbled together. That approach works with something like BattleLore, but I think it becomes a hindrance to a miniatures game - which requires a more organized, piecemeal approach. I like that FFG is going all in on the game (after BattleLore and Runebound, my faith in Terrinoth game support is not high), but I don't think they are willing to change their boardgame-centric approach for the game.

By the time the elves are available, you will be able to buy the human units individually, BTW. I can't find the link at the moment (its in one of their news articles discussing Rune wars), but they will be selling army units by themselves (such as the human cavalry).

I imagine the elves will be the same.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Right now, FFG just doesn't have the options available for players to pick and choose which factions to play. For instance, if I wanted to play the Elves and the Humans, I'd have to buy the Undead too. And the Essentials Kit is expensive when you are just getting the Elves, but if the Humans were available as a separate kit, then each additional army box you buy won't require a second or third Essentials Kit, making it cheaper to pick up just the armies you want - but right now, only the Elves requires it. There will at least be a fourth faction (the red guys from BattleLore) by the end of the year according to the rumors.

Until proven otherwise, I'd work on the assumption that you'll likely need one of everything of every faction if you want to play with half a chance in FFG-sponsored events, let alone tournaments.

That's how it worked in Imperial Assault Skirmish, X-Wing, etc..

Back in the day, people bought 2 or 3 Lambda Shuttles just for Advanced Sensors. FFG got people not necessary interested in X-Wing scum ships to buy into the X-Wing scum faction by stuffing it with the latest, hottest power-creep at the time like Autothrusters, etc... They got people not necessarily interested in X-Wing Epic play to buy pricey giant ships solely for the most powerful Astromechs or the Palpatine card. Etc..

I don't see why FFG would be changing this hard-core-rules-monetization-business-model with this game. You can probably skip it, if you just play at a club, etc.., But, at least in the past, FFG official events is what drives a lot of FFG miniatures-based games (and a few non-miniatures games with an active scene such as Android Netrunner).

You wont need to buy an Elves expansion to get an Undead upgrade. This has been stated and rehashed for months now.

We've already seen neutral upgrades appear in expansion sets for Humans and Undead, so that isn't a concern either.

It appears that FFG is diverting from it's usual tactics slightly for this game.

However, I have noticed that unique terrain is appearing in the Hero expansions for the various factions, and it wouldn't surprise me if you needed those for tournaments matches, similar to how you need certain map tiles and scenario cards to compete in IA.

WUWU wrote:
You wont need to buy an Elves expansion to get an Undead upgrade. This has been stated and rehashed for months now.

We've already seen neutral upgrades appear in expansion sets for Humans and Undead, so that isn't a concern either.

It appears that FFG is diverting from it's usual tactics slightly for this game.

However, I have noticed that unique terrain is appearing in the Hero expansions for the various factions, and it wouldn't surprise me if you needed those for tournaments matches, similar to how you need certain map tiles and scenario cards to compete in IA.

But what they do is make you double extra just for some new cards.

Such as the undead swordsmen in the core have some different upgrade then the solo pack of swordsmen. Even if its just a few, they will do that to force you to buy the extra box if you want all the options. They do the same thing in x wing.

I own a nearly literal ton of fantasy miniatures from decades in WHFB so it's nice that they have a templates option. So now it's looking like a $25 (less at inevitable discount) plus printing to play the game with my existing miniatures. If I like it enough, I can buy their miniatures later if not, I'll just be out $25 and I've wasted much more than that on Deadzone which I only played once before tossing the lot in the trash after it sat unused in my nerd closet for an eternity.

I really can't get into a game with a billion tokens. It makes set up and tear down a lot longer than it needs to be and keeping track of all the tokens is a monumental pain.

 auticus wrote:
I really can't get into a game with a billion tokens. It makes set up and tear down a lot longer than it needs to be and keeping track of all the tokens is a monumental pain.

I play a ton of FFG games. I throw the tokens into a small organizer like you'd get at a craft of hardware store and set it next to the game board. Boom. Set up complete. Keeping track of the tokens is usually trivial as you pull one out of the organizer and set it next to the appropriate unit. When you use the token, you pick it up and put it back in the organizer. At the end of the game, you close the organizer lid. Boom. Tear down complete.

If you're drowning in tokens, you're probably doing it wrong.

Get something like this, in whatever size you need. I have a small one for X-Wing and a bigger one for Descent (more tokens).

https://www.amazon.com/Plano-23620-01-Stowaway-Adjustable-Dividers/dp/B000E3C3NU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491920929&sr=8-1&keywords=plano+organizer

It's more the visual intrusion of having all those things on the tabletop that's the issue for me. It's a problem (IMO) with X-Wing, moreso with Armada and now this.

 Kriswall wrote:

I play a ton of FFG games. I throw the tokens into a small organizer like you'd get at a craft of hardware store and set it next to the game board. Boom. Set up complete. Keeping track of the tokens is usually trivial as you pull one out of the organizer and set it next to the appropriate unit. When you use the token, you pick it up and put it back in the organizer. At the end of the game, you close the organizer lid. Boom. Tear down complete.

If you're drowning in tokens, you're probably doing it wrong.

FFG just has a component bloat problem. Imperial Assault has a half dozen different types of tokens, six or seven different decks of cards (in two sizes), larger hero cards, two dozen cardboard map tiles, a bunch of miniatures, stickers (optional), three different instruction books (not to mention each expansion having its own separate instruction page to maintain), and probably something else I forgot. It's just a pile of stuff, and I spend more time taking it all out of the box, organizing it into piles, selecting the relevant game bits, and doing it again in reverse at the end than I actually spend playing the game. They give you a sign for what kind of card sleeves you need on the box, but they really need to tell you what kind of Plano boxes you need. Whenever I plan to get a FFG game, I also budget in plastic organizers for the tokens. I actually buy them in bulk and can tell you which models are best for each game.

There are a lot of FFG games that I just adore, like Arkham Horror LCG or Runebound 3E, but there's no doubt that FFG has a clutter problem. When I get a game fully out on the table, I feel like a hoarder.

Precisely. I look at this game and see the same issue. I just can't have fun in a system like that.

 auticus wrote:
Precisely. I look at this game and see the same issue. I just can't have fun in a system like that.

See, I actually consider 40k to be far more cumbersome. I need to transport tons of models (many of which are fiddly and prone to breakage), dice, measuring tapes, templates, terrain, and potentially a half dozen or more rule books per army.

X-Wing has a ton of components and I own most of them with multiples of some... and it all fits into a large Plano storage case.
Armada has a ton of components and I own most of them with multiples of some... and it all fits into a large Plano storage case.
Descent... you get the idea.

FFG games may have more small bits, but they tend to be much easier to carry around. 40k definitely has some nice case options, but they can be very costly and generally insufficient to carry more than one army at a time.

With proper storage, games like X-Wing or Armada are very "grab and go". If you have a prepped list, you can just grab the case, meet a friend anywhere with an appropriate table and be playing within 5-10 min of showing up. 40k isn't very grab and go, especially if you're in a situation where you need to bring terrain. My local store has flat tables available with no real terrain options. Sure, I can play there, but I rarely do because it's such a pain to lug everything in. Setup takes forever. Tear down takes forever. 40k almost requires that you have an ongoing table situation where terrain is stored next to the table and you're really just moving armies and rules around.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's more the visual intrusion of having all those things on the tabletop that's the issue for me. It's a problem (IMO) with X-Wing, moreso with Armada and now this.

I think that the sight of collected Star Destroyers, Rebel frigates and the like on a star-map type board is one of the most impressive looking things that you'll see in wargaming! It's easily achievable as well with the pre-paints, and contrasts with the hordes of unpainted plastics and poor quality terrain that you seem to see as a mainstay on a lot of other gaming boards (although realise this probably changes from place to place).

I don't think having some tokens/cards on the board creates that much of an impact, if the rest of the game looks so damned fine (and it helps facilitate a solid game mechanic). Although, again realise this is a personal thing!

Kriswall wrote:
See, I actually consider 40k to be far more cumbersome. I need to transport tons of models (many of which are fiddly and prone to breakage), dice, measuring tapes, templates, terrain, and potentially a half dozen or more rule books per army.

Can't speak for 40k, but with Warmachine, all the non-model stuff fit inside a medium sized pencil case for me. Granted, unit cards take up considerably less room than codices. And if we're talking about Runewars, then you still need to transport tons of models in addition to whatever deckboxes and plano boxes you need for the rest of the game.

X-Wing has a ton of components and I own most of them with multiples of some... and it all fits into a large Plano storage case.
Armada has a ton of components and I own most of them with multiples of some... and it all fits into a large Plano storage case.
Descent... you get the idea.

The only case that will fit all of Descent is a suitcase.

With proper storage, games like X-Wing or Armada are very "grab and go". If you have a prepped list, you can just grab the case, meet a friend anywhere with an appropriate table and be playing within 5-10 min of showing up. 40k isn't very grab and go, especially if you're in a situation where you need to bring terrain. My local store has flat tables available with no real terrain options. Sure, I can play there, but I rarely do because it's such a pain to lug everything in. Setup takes forever. Tear down takes forever. 40k almost requires that you have an ongoing table situation where terrain is stored next to the table and you're really just moving armies and rules around.

When I play Infinity at home (which is small and not optimally set up for gaming), I have to set up some folding tables, grab a gaming mat, take terrain from my shelves to set up the board, get out my models and tokens, and grab my army lists - and it still takes less time to set up than Imperial Assault. The only really time consuming part of it is rolling up the damn neoprene mat and getting it into its bag. It's like trying to put a too-small condom on the world's largest, floppiest dong. I doubt Runewars will approach anything like Imperial Assault's set up time, but having a lot of pieces to sort through can greatly lengthen the set up time of games, and not in a fun or entertaining way, like setting up your terrain.

Pacific wrote:I think that the sight of collected Star Destroyers, Rebel frigates and the like on a star-map type board is one of the most impressive looking things that you'll see in wargaming!

But you have an Infinity sig! There's a no more impressive sight in wargaming than a fully loaded Infinity table - even the cardstock terrain that comes with Icestorm.

Just going to echo those who say that the management of tokens in Runewars isn't a big deal. I'm generally not a fan of tokens, but when I played, the actual use of the tokens was fast and straitforward. I've already got mine in a small case and they're easy to access.

I recommend cheap "bead" cases from craft shops. I prefer the ones with rounded bottoms for easy piece removal and without removable separations as there is less likleyhood of mixing contents.

Yes I think those bead cases are always a good idea, I (and I think a lot of other players) use those for X-Wing.

A real pain? The Serenity board game, a separate deck for each star system....yeah.

 auticus wrote:
I really can't get into a game with a billion tokens. It makes set up and tear down a lot longer than it needs to be and keeping track of all the tokens is a monumental pain.

Always makes me stop and pause before buying one of FFG's board games.

 Eilif wrote:
Just going to echo those who say that the management of tokens in Runewars isn't a big deal. I'm generally not a fan of tokens, but when I played, the actual use of the tokens was fast and straitforward. I've already got mine in a small case and they're easy to access.

I recommend cheap "bead" cases from craft shops. I prefer the ones with rounded bottoms for easy piece removal and without removable separations as there is less likleyhood of mixing contents.

Yup. A small organizer, and put the command tools to the side with the unit cards, and there goes a lot of the fuss and clutter that this game would seem to have on first viewing. Still trying to figure out what to do about the jigsaw base edges, as those are the last really "Gamey" looking pieces.