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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Pretty much. As cool as it is thematically (And I've been wanting a weapon like that for some time) The Frag Cannon just invalidates it.

Would have been cool to get a DW Heavy weapon option that didn't overlap design space with the Frag Cannon so much.

A Special issue Missile launcher with Rad, Stasis missiles etc would have been really cool.

A long range weapon would be cool. Like a Veteran support squad that rains down hell from far away in support from their brothers. A ML with Special Issue Missiles would be awesome!

How about Variable Speed Lascannons. They can reduce their range down by 12" increments. At 36" they become Str 10. At 24" they become Str D. Or maybe give them something like the Xenophase Blade, where targets have to reroll their Invulnerable saves.

That would be really cool too. Both ideas hold with the DW's theme of adaptability and having different options turn to turn.

So, after tons of brain storming and trying to fill the gaps I believe that the answer to a lot of the deathwatch issues lies in a combination of the new psychic disciplines and lots of psykers.

Deathwatch can deal with a lot of targets but with a solid best,net in psykers you can adjust based on what you are facing. Personally I find that the not needing LOS power really solves almost all of he problems I have with a full 10 man stalker unit.

Facing Knights? Go deep in the electric tree, I mean there are three to four powers that just remove hull points and it is before they get to reposition their shields. I think however taking the librarians from the deathwatch is in general going to be a disadvantage and would look to the conclave or other groups of psykers to get them in.

I was seriously considering as my three sources a black spear force. A conclave, and a psykana division or a second conclave depending on what resources are available. A psykana division(although it sickens me to think about it) could really bolster the low model count with tons of daemon summoning.

Edit:

Okay found a new list that I love. Black spear force combined with sky hammer annihilation force. Beacon doesn't require being on the table at the start of the turn. Take a kill team in a drop pod with watch captain attached deep strike them in first, have annihilation come in second. I am taking them with ultra marines for the reroll hits. No scatter, solid force on the table. They reserve? Take a drop pod dread as forced auxiliary and aim to come in with nearly everything second turn(depending on rolls).

Can't wait to try it out. If you go first I can't think of many death stars that could survive this kind of fire power so many templates!

I'm considering deploying a DW army alongside a force of grey knights... (Maybe toss a cheapo inqusitor in just to be fluffy) think it'd work?

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm considering deploying a DW army alongside a force of grey knights... (Maybe toss a cheapo inqusitor in just to be fluffy) think it'd work?

Is the thought that two Intended-As-Allies codexes will somehow form a cohesive and functional army? I am curious how this plays out, to be honest. Post results when you have some.

Leth I'm fairly with you on your idea, every killteam I've built for my pure DW army has a transport load of 9, so I honestly think I'm going to spend the extra points and upgrade each team to a strategum killteam with a ML1/2 psyker with technomancy. One of my constant opponents is a KDK with soulgrinders and hellturkeys, this could cause him serious problems and I can always fish for invisibility if I'm not versing many vehicles.

--------------------

Now as to the Infernus Heavy Bolter I think we're maybe all missing something that I only clicked on to just recently. I believe it has a place, but only if you've already taken a few Deathwatch Frag Cannons.....hear me out.

The Deathwatch Frag Cannon's strength, AP and impact rule make it great for elite and light vehicle hunting....we all know this, in my army I currently have 4 at 1000pts because of their versitility.

However at larger point ranges your opponents are going to start including more and more of their big toys. Riptides, Knights bigger tanks, nasty deathstars etc. All of this really needs to be focused down on by your frag cannons (and due to their operational range, likely our ap3 special ammo shots too).

I know at 1500+ my frag cannon squads are not going to have time to waste those precious shots at troops, be that space marines or fire warriors. That squads lifetime is a valuable commodity not to be wasted.

So I start looking at the alternative to hit those troops while I'm at it and I realised I'm going to need two things I thought I would basically throw in the bits box to gather dust.

Stalker Pattern Bolters and Infernus Heavy Bolters

30" range bolters, 36" ap 4 to outrange even tau, ignores cover to aggrivate orks or nids or any chumps camping terrain, and ap3 at standard bolter range.....all at 2 shots. Sure it may not be the most monstrous thing in the game, sure you have to stay still to use it, but at that range that's not a hinderance to me, weapon swapping on veterans says I can take one of these and a normal bolter for when I move anyway....all for 5 measly points a model.

Throw in an assault 3, 36" heavy bolter, to give what we really lack which is numbers (number of shots, not bodies obviously ) and if I want a poison 2+ blast to deal with blobs or stupid things like TWC or wraithblades, anything with high toughness.

This squad is equiped to deal with practically ever troop in the game. Sure against terminators they may not do great. Sure against GMC or vehicles they are going to get stomped on (often quite literally) and sure the bits are going to be a pain to get for it. However this squad will completely excel at 1 thing. Whiping one of your enemies troop choices of the board pretty much every turn (Your results may vary, but you get the point).

As a side note, throw in a bike, so if your opponent MSU's your shots aren't wasted on overkill. Additionally, wall of death, that is all.

-------------------------

As to joining with grey knights it will be super cool and fluffy, it will basically work exactly as a pure force of one or the other would just with a few more weakenesses plugged. You're still going to have somewhere between jack and squat models on the board but they will excell at what they do. Take the GK to hit things, take the DW to shoot things, march your GK up the board in their big draigostar, suicide squad some droppod DW to distract and soften, eat a nice steak carefully seasoned to pair with your tall glass of your enemies tears.

--------------------

Okay I think that's more than enough hyperbole from me.

Cheers all,

Qwerty

Qwerty2jam wrote:


As to joining with grey knights it will be super cool and fluffy, it will basically work exactly as a pure force of one or the other would just with a few more weakenesses plugged. You're still going to have somewhere between jack and squat models on the board but they will excell at what they do. Take the GK to hit things, take the DW to shoot things, march your GK up the board in their big draigostar, suicide squad some droppod DW to distract and soften, eat a nice steak carefully seasoned to pair with your tall glass of your enemies tears.

yeah that's kinda what I suspected would be the case, I was leaning towards a small Nemisis strike force detachment mostly. unit of termies, a libby and maybe if I can squeeze it in a dreadknight. something to charge in and play havok with my enemies line during the first few turns.

So I've been poking around and seeing quite a few lists look something like this:

Watch Company

Captain/Artemis

4x Aquila Kill Teams
- Stalker Kill Teams x2
- Frag Cannon/Drop Pod Kill Teams x2

Skyhammer Annihilation Force

2x Assault Squads

2x Devastator Squads
- 4x Grav Cannon
- 4x Multi-Melta

After that you've usually got about 300-500pts left to fill in. Now some lists are going for Psyker overload, but multi-wound Power Armor Psykers are generally going to cost as much as a squad of guys, and wont help your MSU.

Additionally these lists are often relying on a Dread, and maybe 1-2 Stalker Pattern Bolter Kill Teams to survive Turn 1.

The problem there is you've got to face other lists which also will be trying to Alpha Strike. White Scars will be crossing the board and throwing enough Bolter shots your way that there's no way that 10-20 veterans and a Dreadnought will survive, especially outside of vehicles so they aren't penalized for moving while they rock a Heavy Weapon loadout.

My own personal solution was allying 3 Henchmen Warband squads from the Inquisition. 1 Psyker and 4 Acolytes inside a Razorback can go from 60-90pts, and provide Warp Charges as well as Wounds and Hull Points.

TL;DR - Make sure you have enough to survive an opponent Alpha Strike if you're bringing a Skyhammer Annihilation Force with your Black Spear Strike Force or Watch Company.

I'm thinking of biting and buying into this release after reading through the codex. I'm trying to plug the obvious gaps in the units available with Space Marine allies, and as I have not been a SM player before I'd appreciate your input.
Here's a list of obvious problems, and possible ways I'm thinking SM could fill the gaps in the codex:

1) No cheap troops to camp out on objectives/no objectives secured. Solution? SM sniper scouts deployed in the backfield, taking pot shots at anything that comes too close and holding objectives. If you lose them, oh well, they're fairly cheap, and they may just kill something.

2) No reliable long range shooting. Solution? SM Devastators with grav cannons or las cannons? Also possibly SM tanks/artillery (Not too sure which ones)

3) Other than Corvus Blackstar no AA. Solution? SM flyer. (Not sure which one)

I'm sorry I'm not very specific, I don't own the SM codex, but I'd like to hear your suggestions for making SM allies work. What chapter would you take? Formations etc?

Thanks!

So I think one of the difficult things about deathwatch is that a powerful build will vary 100% based on the mission structure being played.

No kill points and multiple sources. CAD MSU spam all the way.

OS not important? Black spear + Skyhammer alpha strike.

So on and so forth. I can't see a generalist take all comers list being made that will consistently be successful without knowing the basic mission structure of the games being played.

Aquilla
-6x Vets (Bolter+Shotgun)
-2x Terminators
-Drop pod

225 pts

Add special/heavies to taste. Keep under 275 pts. Field 3-4 for a group of solid core flexible units. At 40 pts a head, terminators are extremely cheap ways to get a powerfist and a 2+ save in a squad.

Examples;

-6x Vets
--3x Flamer
-2x Terminators
--2x HF
-DP

250 pts

-6x Vets
--2x Melta
-2x Terminators
--1x CML
-DP

270 pts

-6x Vets
-2x Terminators
--2x AC
-DP

265 pts

etc. etc.

On the topic of DW combining with Grey Knights, this is the army I'm using tomorrow night in a friendly game with a couple of mates.

Not competitive but packs alot of psykic dice and should do some damage on the drop. The inquisitors and their retinues help add a few numbers ;-)


Inquisitoral Detachment
1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Terminator Armour, Psycannon, ML:1 110
1 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Power Armour, ML:1, 3 Servo Skulls 72
10 Henchmen 2 Crusaders, 3 Acolyte - Plasmagun, 1 Psyker, 1 Priest, 2 Death Cult Assassins, 1 Jokero 177
1 Chimera 55
11 Henchmen 3 Servitor - Multimelta, 1 Jokero, 1 Acolyte - Boltgun, 6 Acolytes 94
1 Chimera 55
6 Henchmen 5 Acolytes - Boltguns, 1 Acolyte 29
1 Chimera 55
Grey Knight Nemesis Strike Force
1 Librarian ML:3, Curass of Sacrifice 155
5 Terminators Psycannon, Daemon Hammer, 3x Halberd 201
1 Dreadknight Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer, Great Sword 220
1 Dreadknight Heavy Psycannon, Personal Teleporter 195
Deathwatch Aquila Kill Team
1 Librarian ML:2, Terminator, Auspex, Meltabomb, Tome of Ectoclades 135
1 Terminator Heavy Flamer, Meltagun 60
6 Veterans Srg, Combi-Melta, 2x Frag Cannon, 1x Storm Shield, 4x Shotgun 202
1 Droppod 35
Officio Assassinorum
1 Vindicare Assassin 150

Total= 2000

on a slightly related topic, can anyone suggest a good place to pick up peices to make a custom inqusitor?

BrianDavion wrote:
on a slightly related topic, can anyone suggest a good place to pick up peices to make a custom inqusitor?

I wanted a Inquisitor in TDA so started with a grey Knight base. then added interesting bitz from various kits. Space Wolf Cloak, converted psycannon, an Inquisition shoulder pad (easier to get hold of now) and then just a few "-I-" modelled on. You can source most bitz from the various sellers on ebay or standard bitz stores like Bitzbox/bitzandKits etc...

Here's mine:

So i'm no deathwatch player, but thinking of including a small allied detachment of them. I'll throw out a handy tip for prospective DW players though, I regularly use Lias Issodon, a Forgeworld SM character who brings a heap of perks, especially for any armies that revolve around reserves. He also fits the DW theme perfectly, as he comes with special ammo stock. His rules are free from the FW website, but in short he comes with master of ambush warlord trait stock, shrouding, re-roll reserve rolls, -1 to enemy reserves and a special sneak attack before the game starts. I sometimes bring a fun list including him, which is based around Lias & loads of legion of the damned deep striking in, so not too far away from what allot of DW armies will probably look like, elite infantry dropping in from reserves.

Anyways hope that helps someone, Lias & two min scout squads, for 285 points total, will add allot to any DW army imo.

On to my question then, so I was gonna take a DW librarian with the Dominus Aegis & a small, bog standard vet squad. The DW Libby role would be to help protect a librarius conclave that I run, stick him in with them, Lias (he comes with shrouding) and roll up on invisibility or Sanctuary+Veil of time with the conclave, to help keep them alive. I don't particularly move the conclave as they are around for support, so for 225pts total, i'd be buying a sternguard squad essentially and a level two libby with the dominus.

Kind of on the fence about it though, a cheaper alternative would be to buy a SM command squad with stormshields & apoth, but the DW route on the other hand gets you extra psychic dice & a 4++ for everyone.

Any thoughts for someone interested in shamelessly plugging the DW codex for one relic?

Does anyone know whether we're allowed to sub out the DW Dreadnoughts for Contemptor ones? Similar to Angels of Death, where normal Spess Mehreens can do the same.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Does anyone know whether we're allowed to sub out the DW Dreadnoughts for Contemptor ones? Similar to Angels of Death, where normal Spess Mehreens can do the same.

Currently, I haven't seen anything that indicates we can. I have hope for the future, but right now, doesn't look like it.

BossJakadakk wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Does anyone know whether we're allowed to sub out the DW Dreadnoughts for Contemptor ones? Similar to Angels of Death, where normal Spess Mehreens can do the same.

Currently, I haven't seen anything that indicates we can. I have hope for the future, but right now, doesn't look like it.

That's the impression I was under, as well.

I'd love to swap the Corvus out for a Dread, especially a melee one, but we seem to be lacking in the non-shooty dreadnought department.

BrianDavion wrote:
on a slightly related topic, can anyone suggest a good place to pick up peices to make a custom inqusitor?

That kinda depends on what you want to equip your inquisitors with.
(I posted a link to some of my conversions on the previous page.)

So which psychic disciplines seem best suited for the Deathwatch? Obviously Telepathy is a good choice (it always is), but which of the other ones are good. Biomancy aiming for Endurance seems like a good choice to increase mobility and get some added durability. Divination is always a winner due to attacks hitting more often. Fulmination adds some Haywire and the ability for a Librarian to get a faux Storm Shield.

What are your thoughts?

Honestly for me, what you listed is pretty much what I'm gonna be taking. I feel like having a level 2 libby in any team is gonna be rare for me, so I want to make sure whatever primaris each lib is getting is going to be something they can use in almost any instance, regardless of what they roll on the discipline's table itself.

Didn't roll invis? Still got shriek.
Didn't roll Endurance? Still got smite.
Div power you rolled situational? Prescience.
Rolled haywire nova and they don't have vehicles? WC 1 S5 AP4 Assault 6 power

I am using a Lvl 2 Librarian as my Command so I will almost always have one on the board. What you just said sums up my thoughts as well.

I feel if you're going psychic heavy, which this army has no trouble doing, sanctic and librarius will be decent options.

Against a psychic deathstar?
Null zone, then smash face
Psychic scourge
Veil / might of heroes arent bad
Adamantium will and 4++ not bad either

worst case scenario a S5 AP3 blast is still an okay shooting attack.

Sanctic is more dangerous, but more deadly.
Need to take out an imperial knight?
Hammer hand with staves gives you 4 S8 attacks on the charge, vortex is self explanatory.
Cleansing flame can almost always find a use, same for gate and sanctuary.

Wouldn't bother with a lvl 1 though, in case you roll purge soul, and banishment :/

Why would anyone run a LV1 Mastery in the first place? Always go for the max you can.

As with everything deathwatch you need the spells to fill a hole in your list against a specific target. Personally I find myself always looking at the new trees and they offer a lot of potential for deathwatch. Th new anti vehicle tree is really solid help against Knights. The ignore LOS power is great for stalkers, etc.

Does anybody know?

Can a Deathwatch unit that contains an Independent Character from another codex be teleported via the Beacon Angelis?

sizzlebutt666 wrote:
Does anybody know?

Can a Deathwatch unit that contains an Independent Character from another codex be teleported via the Beacon Angelis?

If the new FAQs are a precedent, then most likely no.

SJ

Beacon says friendly units so i dont see why not.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

sizzlebutt666 wrote:
Does anybody know?

Can a Deathwatch unit that contains an Independent Character from another codex be teleported via the Beacon Angelis?

If the new FAQs are a precedent, then most likely no.

SJ

With the new FAQ, a unit containing 2 factions is considered both factions. Eg preffered enemy space marines, and PE imperial guard,both work against a conscript squad with a SM librarian. etc

So if a unit has a deathwatch IC, it is a deathwatch unit, add a friendly unit, and may be targeted by the Beacon Angelus .

This might change with the FAQ, so you might as well put the question on their facebook post, they are asking for deathwatch questions this week

The precedent I speak of is that the FAQs seem to be ruling against combos rather than in support, creating inconstancies and outright contradictions. Just being salty.

SJ

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would anyone run a LV1 Mastery in the first place? Always go for the max you can.

I need those points for more weapons!

I've thought about it, and I'll probably try some lv2 soon, but for my first few games, I feel like more weapons will make the army more consistent than a few extra wc and an extra roll on each table. I'm willing to be wrong though. Coming from Eldar and Daemons, it feels so weird making lists that start with only like 3-5 wc.

I got a captain, and was debating what to put on him, then decided to make him melee-oriented for funsies, storm shield and power maul. Then I realized it costs 15 points to give him a SS (in other words, only +1 to his already-existing invul), while it only costs nearly everything else 10 points to get that shield. Is that the same for vanilla SM captains compared to vanilla vets? Regardless, now I'm back to figuring out how I want to build him. Bolter and maul? I'm favoring the maul, at least.