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 Tamereth wrote:
It can take a black star but not a rhino, razorback or drop pod. Other than that seems to be a copy and paste of the deathwatch codex entry.
no drop pod kills it for my list.

Well it isn't like the Blackstar is a bad choice. 5-10 Marines bring dropped off from one would be a major hit.

Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum and yet quite an large one, so I hope you will recieve it warmly I'm working on my DW army now, and I'm trying to figure out a list using strengths to maximum and compensating for weaknesses. I thought, that what we have best is a mix of a drop pod assault and stalker sniping, while our greatest weakness is lack of bodies. We can compensate to some degree for this by adding storm sields, but they can make us tougher only against heavy/special weapons. Our greatest enemy is, as weird as it may sound, the bolter. Him, and every other multiple-shot, high-strength weapon. This is true, because our tanking stormsield veterans are only as resistant to bolter fire as regular space marines, despite being twice as expensive, while being able to take much more in terms of high-ap weapons. This we need to compensate by giving our enemy incentive to use his basic weapons against different targets, while our veterans do their job. I thought, that the best source of manpower to achieve that goal would be IG. 50 conscripts cost only few points more than 5-man stalker squad, while having much more damage soaking potential, and staying power (with commisar/priest). This led me to the 1850 CAD with guard allies and strategium kill-team for serious skull-cracking.


CAD
HQ

Librarian (lvl 2, auspex)

Troops

Veterans (drop pod, 2 frag cannons, 3 storm shield/shotgun)
Veterans (drop pod, 2 frag cannons, 3 storm shield/shotgun)
Veterans (drop pod, 5 stalker/boltgun)
Veterans (drop pod, 5 stalker/boltgun)


Astra Militarum (Allied Detachment)

2x Ministorum Priest

HQ

Company Command Squad

Troops

Infantry Platoon
PCS
Conscripts (50)
Infantry Squad (Autocannon)
Infantry Squad (Autocannon)
Infantry Squad (Autocannon)

HS

Wyvern

Strategium Command Team
Aquila Kill Team (drop pod, 3x storm shield/shotgun, powerfist/shotgun, blacksield/powerfist/shotgun, terminator)
Watch captain (artificer, thunder hammer)

Libby goes with strategium, tries to get something to toughen the squad up (invis, etc.). Strategium and frag cannon squads drop turn one, shoot everything up and pray to make it to turn 2, when strategium charge whatever they can. Conscripts run up the field trying to take objectives and draw maximum attention. Autocannons try to blow up light vehicles with CCS orders, while possibly shielding stalker squads. PCS runs behind conscripts for frfsrf. Stalker squads try to pick the juciest targets while sitting on objectives, and their drop pods come in empty, trying to get late-game objectives. I considered swapping one priest for commisar for better order chance on conscripts, or downgrading libby to lvl one and switching captain for master. What do you think?

Hi folks I am playing with the idea of a deathwatch kill team for kill team and with my 200 points was wondering what you guys thought of 2 similar ideas i had for it

1st is more a get at max range and fire then as they get close swatch to boltguns to move
3 x Veteran with stalker and boltgun
1 x Veteran with Heavy bolter and bolter
1 x Veteran Seargent with stalker and boltgun
1 x Razorback with heavy bolters

or another spammy list being
2 x veterans with shotguns and boltguns
2 x veterans with deathwatch frag cannon
1 x veteran seargent shotgun and boltgun
1 x rhino with storm bolter

First in more long range but stationary the other in more in your face and the shotgun ammo gives some defence against being charged. Very low model count on both though, cheers

honestly, for KT I'd drop the HB and go with as many stalkers as you can get, then use the ignore cover ammo/hellfire ammo, and hope for rends (and it's a heavy 2 weapon, so HBs are only slightly better). Maybe drop the rhino/razorback for a termie w/ an asscan or cyclone, but I dunno. what you're lacking is reliable AP2.

I don't need AP2 as you cant use 2+ armour in kill team, cant use termies for that reason though I had thought about 2 x vanguard vets.

Ah, true I forgot about that. in that case, I'd stick to stalkers + whatever ammo type is needed over a HB.

True, would give me a few more points for other stuff also

How have people been running their Deathwatch Dreads?

I know they aren't great right now, but I like having variety in my armies and I've always wanted to play Dreads and the Nihilus doesn't seem half bad.

I ike the Nihilus for the Invuln as a relatively hardy weapons platform, except you're stuck with the power fist and can't take a second ranged weapon, so I'm wondering how best to run them, whether the extra ranged weapon is worth giving up the invuln save.

I'm also trying to decide whether to glue on the storm bolter or the heavy flamer to the melee arm.

The new GW FAQ doesn't allow the Beacon Angelis to work the turn it drops from a pod so combining the Beacon with a Skyhammer Annihlation force won't work anymore. I had just bought all the DW models to make an army based around this tactic the weekend before the new FAQ came out.

DW can still Pod in with a Skyhammer, but without the guidance of the Beacon I can't ensure the assault marines will hit their spot each time and assault the speedy weak units an enemy has before they can get away.

I'm turning to the terminator entry in DW. The new FAQ allows TH/SS terminators to take cyclone missile launchers also. A 5-man terminator unit kitted out this way is 375pts. This gives you 10 krak missile shots at 48" and a 2+/3++ defense. Sort of similar to a 30k Iron Warrior Tyrants unit.

I think the 48" range can be used to mitigate return fire. I think attaching Coteaz to the unit makes enemy deep strikers think twice about coming down near the terminators.

375pts is a lot of points to spend on a squad. You would be better off with 10 man Vet Squad with 4 Frag Cannons and a Pod and you would still have some points up your sleeve as well.

Yeah I found the new FAQ ruling on the shotguns to be complete crap personally. I do not see any reason found in the actual game why the veterans could not be equipped with shotguns and bolters. It seems extremely clear thats a totally valid option. The FAQ did not even list a reason as to why they could not perform the action of swapping their weapons out to get the bolter/shotgun combo.

That hit plus the big nerf to the beacon really killed a big part of the entire deathwatch book for me.

So is the Beacon Angelis really worth it's points right now? After the FAQ nerfed Deathwatch out of its best tricks, I'm trying to think of the best way to get this Furor Kill Team where it needs to go:

++++++++++++
Furor Kill Team - 300pts

Terminator
-TH//SS

Veterans x5
- Frag Cannon x4//Storm Shield x4
++++++++++++

Should I just stick with a Black Spear Strike Force and use Locator Beacons on various allied units? Or, should I keep my Watch Company Captain (w/Beacon) on the ground, and inside a transport or Land Raider, or should I have him hoof it covered with shield-bros?

Does anybody know the deal with transports and kill teams now..... because they are clearly in all the kill team formations. So veterans can take them.. but veterans in a kill team cant take them, unless everyone can fit in. So no termis or bikes in a razorback....ok. Well what if i have a 10 man kill team in power armor. They can all fit in but not at one time. Codex space marines can do that with 10 man tac squads with razorbacks or even drop empty drop pods. Like if you cant take transports i'm just going to sell this army. There is no point to them unless your a diehard DW fan. Also the bolter shotgun thing was just laziness... didnt talk about the other combos you can do or just change the wording. It's like the dude who wrote it charged some DW and got murdered in overwatch and lost his mind.

You could technically still take a Shotgun and Combi-Weapon.

I didn't see and FAQ to change that one.

 Sinji wrote:
You could technically still take a Shotgun and Combi-Weapon.

I didn't see and FAQ to change that one.

I actually just thought of this. Maybe that's the "tax" they force you to pay for the privilege of super-gun-option-guys

Ok, so i have the Codex and the FAQ in front of me and im going to try to understand and also give my opinion on this stuff. Mostly going over the nerfs or just stuff thats kinda stupid.

Q: Can a Veteran be equipped with both a Deathwatch shotgun
and a boltgun? This seems possible since they can take items
from both the Ranged Weapons and Special Weapons list.
A: No. ( That one is pretty straight forward. I wish they would address the problem though. Because people will still want to take combi-bolter/shotgun or stalker/bolter or stalker/shotgun, so kind of lazy in a sense)

Q: Can a Watch Sergeant or Black Shield take items listed as
being available to Veterans?
A: No. (So no blackshield with a HTH)

Q: The rules say that the guardian spear can be both fired and
used in the Assault phase in a single turn, but as it’s fired
as a boltgun (Rapid Fire), the model surely cannot charge,
and could therefore only use it either as a ranged or as a
melee weapon?
A: In the event the Model gains the Relentless special
rule – or fires in Overwatch – it could both shoot and
fight with this weapon. Otherwise, yes, shooting would
prevent you from charging.(I thought they already answered this on the facebook or a battle report or some crap and it was the opposite answer i guess this nerfs the Custodian as well)

Q: Are the Banebolts of Eryxia intended to be distributed by
the character to any squad he joins? All models in a unit must
fire the same special issue ammunition – if you give a Captain
Banebolts of Eryxia, and he chooses to use them, no other
model in the squad can fire their bolt weapons using special
issue ammunition, unless this relic was intended to spread to
any unit the character joins, or is otherwise an exception to
that rule.
A: No. (so why ever take these if it makes the squad your with unable to shoot)

Q: Can a Terminator fire both the auxiliary meltagun and
the cyclone missile launcher in the same turn? (The cyclone
missile launcher can fire in addition to the storm bolter, and the
auxiliary meltagun says it can fire instead of another weapon.
Do these two criteria combine?)
A: No, you can shoot the cyclone missile launcher and
storm bolter, or only the auxiliary meltagun (kind of stupid... if your going to pay the points you should be able to shoot both. I mean its deathwatch you think they could get something unique and its no like terminators are great anyway)

Q: How is a model’s ‘type’ determined for the Thief of Secrets? Is
it purely the model name, or does it apply to the unit (e.g. if you
wound a Space Marine Sergeant in a Tactical Squad, does that
mean you only get the bonus against Space Marine Sergeants,
or against the Tactical Marines too)?
A: In this example, you would get the bonus against
Space Marine Sergeants. (Really!.... so just the Sergeants not Tactical Marines, i dont know why this is so specific its just a power sword that can wound on 2+ after you get a kill)

Q: It’s not specifically stated that anything other than Veterans
can take a Dedicated Transport. The assumption is that all Kill
Team combinations,Terminator units, etc. can take a Dedicated
Transport within the limitations dictated by the types of model
in the squad. Is this correct?
A: No, but you can select Transports as Fast Attack
options, for example, if you like. (So i guess people were trying to take Rhinos for bikes or terminators because they were part of a kill team? Or were they trying to take multiple transports for a single kill team? That's how i understand it and it obviously doesn't work like that and that would be common sense to me)

Q: The Deathwatch Vanguard Veteran construction book
includes the instructions for a Vanguard Veteran with a relic
blade and grav-pistol, but this isn’t supported in the rules –
should this be an option?
A: No.(I like how this is a No but on the vanguard DW box it has a guy holding a relic blade.... i guess it's just a big power sword)

Q: Can a unit of Veterans that is part of a Kill Team take a
Dedicated Transport for themselves if it can’t carry the other
members of the Kill Team?
A: No. (This on I have some trouble understanding, So if i have an Aquila Kill Team and its a unit of Vets and a Libby in power armor i can take a Razorback, 6 guys. But what if that Libby is in Terminator armor? No? or what if the unit is over 6 man can i no longer get a Razorback? So the coolness that makes Kill teams unique is now very limited to what will jam into a transport. So what is the point of this book... i guess we are just an ally force and should never be played as a stand alone army?)

 Beastagon wrote:


Q: Can a unit of Veterans that is part of a Kill Team take a
Dedicated Transport for themselves if it can’t carry the other
members of the Kill Team?
A: No. (This on I have some trouble understanding, So if i have an Aquila Kill Team and its a unit of Vets and a Libby in power armor i can take a Razorback, 6 guys. But what if that Libby is in Terminator armor? No? or what if the unit is over 6 man can i no longer get a Razorback? So the coolness that makes Kill teams unique is now very limited to what will jam into a transport. So what is the point of this book... i guess we are just an ally force and should never be played as a stand alone army?)

This one I disagree with entirely. I know it has been addressed before that you can buy a DT for a unit even if that unit's model count is higher than the vehicle's transport capacity. Wish I remembered where I read that, but as an Ork player I have used DT trucks to block LOS on 30-strong Boyz mobs. I don't see what makes this different; you just have to deploy the unit outside of the vehicle and they won't be able to embark unless casualties reduce you to under capacity or the bulky model dies or w/e.

Between the no Bolter/Shotgun and the Beacon rulings now makes me glad I haven't yet invested in a DW army.

They did give a minor buff to Terminator Librarians and Watch Captains by letting them keep SI Ammunition if they take a Combi-weapon.

I cut all of my close combat weapons off to allow the Shotguns to be held.

:-(

Honestly the shotgun/bolter nerf doesn't surprise me. I never expected that to stick around. If they had intended that to be a free option then the units would have been given the combo in the wargear to start with.

The beacon thing irritates me because that could have been an easy catch if they did a rules review, the way it is worded specifically allows it to work regardless if the model starts the turn on the board. Its not a deal breaker for me because I love the DW theme, but I am curious how this will affect some of the strategies.

 ChobitsCrazy wrote:
Between the no Bolter/Shotgun and the Beacon rulings now makes me glad I haven't yet invested in a DW army.

I won't lie. Losing Beacon, Shotguns/Bolters, and TRANSPORTS FOR KILL TEAMS, makes me somewhat regret that I did at all as well.

***Edited my comment to add "somewhat" to sound less dramatic.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 ChobitsCrazy wrote:
Between the no Bolter/Shotgun and the Beacon rulings now makes me glad I haven't yet invested in a DW army.

I won't lie. Losing Beacon, Shotguns/Bolters, and TRANSPORTS FOR KILL TEAMS, makes me regret that I did at all as well.

I am sorry but that's like saying you only played skitarii because of the flesh tearers drop pods.

If you chose DW because of those 3 reason alone then maybe it was a hasty decision. Which I wont lie, I have done myself many-a-time. I try to pick armies for visual appeal and theme now though so I don't get bent up on codex changes or FAQ nerfs. Its saved my wallet too honestly.

I am sorry but that's like saying you only played skitarii because of the flesh tearers drop pods.

If you chose DW because of those 3 reason alone then maybe it was a hasty decision. Which I wont lie, I have done myself many-a-time. I try to pick armies for visual appeal and theme now though so I don't get bent up on codex changes or FAQ nerfs. Its saved my wallet too honestly.

word, the shotgun/boltgun lose is meh, I never really used beacon angelis, and just stuff those kill teams in corvus and you will be fine.

afterall, I ran this quasi-deathwatch double cad gladius 1850~2000, with like 5~6 pods, 5~6 rhinos, its super effective. I mean, DW damage output is tremendous and people weep as suicide meltas and frag cannon decimate 1/3~1/2 of his/her army turn 1, with pseudo-predator rhino frag cannon gunning everything down turn by turn.

or better, I ran this DW rhino CAD with Sicarian Killclade, its super effective, both extremely shooty and choppy. As ruststalkers and infiltrators are fast, and DW frag cannon can soften things up before they charge, and those transonic blades AP2 at I4.

Was looking through the FAQ regarding the issue with killteams not being able to take transports, and I came across this:

Q: Can a unit of Veterans that is part of a Kill Team take a
Dedicated Transport for themselves if it can’t carry the other
members of the Kill Team?
A: No.

Now, looking at the earlier Q/A that seems to implicate that killteams cannot take transports at all, I think it may be more of a case of players assuming an option is listed that isn't listed (I point out the mention of Terminators, who do not have dedicated transports in DW). I would interpret the 'no' to dedicated transports as meaning that it isn't added as an option if it isn't already there, in the instance that there is a killteam that has no veterans to take the dedicated transport option (is there a killteam that doesn't require veterans? I don't have my book handy).

So... Reading into it, it looks like killteams can still take dedicated transports, provided part of the team has the option, and all the models can go into said transport. Unfortunately, I somehow doubt tournament organizers are going to understand, and jump onto the Internet wailing about how DW can't take dedicated transports.

In either case, I'm glad I was planning my force as a CAD. Can anyone else confirm my hypothesis?

 Rezyn wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 ChobitsCrazy wrote:
Between the no Bolter/Shotgun and the Beacon rulings now makes me glad I haven't yet invested in a DW army.

I won't lie. Losing Beacon, Shotguns/Bolters, and TRANSPORTS FOR KILL TEAMS, makes me regret that I did at all as well.

I am sorry but that's like saying you only played skitarii because of the flesh tearers drop pods.

If you chose DW because of those 3 reason alone then maybe it was a hasty decision. Which I wont lie, I have done myself many-a-time. I try to pick armies for visual appeal and theme now though so I don't get bent up on codex changes or FAQ nerfs. Its saved my wallet too honestly.

Those are different things. Skitarii are not Flesh Tearers.

I'm content with my purchase, however, losing access to TRANSPORTS for their main form of function is a huge, pointless reduction to Deathwatch.

I can still do them, and will, through other forms, but losing access to their customization is enough to make me feel low.

So I'm assuming the only effective way of running a DW only army is going to be with a CAD now. Anyone have any effective CAD lists that they've played with or are theory crafting?

I hate this FAQ. :(

 Buzzdady wrote:
So I'm assuming the only effective way of running a DW only army is going to be with a CAD now. Anyone have any effective CAD lists that they've played with or are theory crafting?

I hate this FAQ. :(

I have only run my Deathwatch as a CAD Detachment this far.

The ability to combat squad and also giving your veterans Objective Secured is so unbelievably good that it out weighs all the pros that the kill teams can provide.

I have only run my Deathwatch as a CAD Detachment this far.

The ability to combat squad and also giving your veterans Objective Secured is so unbelievably good that it out weighs all the pros that the kill teams can provide.

that, use DW CAD at tourney, and it sort of worked.

at casual games it will definitely work

you can do half drop pod and half rhino, like a quasi-gladius but with more firepower. or all drop pod or all rhino, make your opponent hate you and those frag cannons.

i run 5 rhinos with 5 marines with 2 frag cannons in each rhinos and sicarian killclade for choppy. It works, almost pummeled a warcon.

 Buzzdady wrote:
So I'm assuming the only effective way of running a DW only army is going to be with a CAD now. Anyone have any effective CAD lists that they've played with or are theory crafting?

I hate this FAQ. :(

Chaplain, auspex
5 veterans, 3 frag cannons, pod
5 veterans, 3 frag cannons, pod
5 veterans, 5 shotguns, pod
5 veterans, 5 stalker boltguns
10 veterans, pod
5 bikers, 5 power mauls, teleport homer
5 bikers, 5 power mauls, teleport homer
5 terminators, 5 SS/TH, 5 cyclone missiles

I'm still working on this. Some of it is left over from when the Beacon worked and I had a Skyhammer added to it.

I like the bikers with power mauls. I like the stalker bolt gun unit. Maybe put them in a building. I like the 3 small pod units. The 10 man unit used to be in a rhino and worked with the Beacon, but they are left over right now.