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If you wanted to play Night Lords why not simply go the 30K route? 40K CSM rules will never be as perfect to reflect Night lords as the 30K rules are right now. While the cult legions have been changed by their gods and the Iron Warriors got Daemon engines, I don't really see what makes NL in 40K different from 30K, as they despise daemonic influence (aside furies).
If you want to play Word bearers, simply take Crimson slaughter. I also doubt a new CSM codex will bring them better rules to reflect their backgrounds.
If you want Alpha Legion, take some loyalist chapter and ally in IG as Cultists.
What I'm trying to say: A new CSM won't be able to reflect ALL the legions + renegades. Let's just hope it focusses on nice rules for some of them(Cults) and provides a baseline for the others(undivided + renegades). Right now it's a bland baseline of weak rules for everything and makes nobody happy .

Not sure I really see the point in this book.
Why not just do a new Codex Chaos Space Marines?

Oldmike wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
If the powers are similar I am just over here thinking that I can't wait to infiltrate a sorcerer from Ahriman's cabal and use Electrodisplacement to swap with Kharn and buddies to give them a turn 1 charge chance

Oh, that is just nasty. I love it.

And so unfluffy it makes my head hurt

Your thinking is so old school. In newfluff CSM supervillians team up all the time to fight the superfriends and try to take over the world!

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Oldmike wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
If the powers are similar I am just over here thinking that I can't wait to infiltrate a sorcerer from Ahriman's cabal and use Electrodisplacement to swap with Kharn and buddies to give them a turn 1 charge chance

Oh, that is just nasty. I love it.

And so unfluffy it makes my head hurt

Your thinking is so old school. In newfluff CSM supervillians team up all the time to fight the superfriends and try to take over the world!

To be fair the whole chaos codex is unfluffy. Its just a shockingly written mess. This book obviously wont fix it but if it leads into a revamped chaos dex that addresses the issues that people want fixed with new gear, vehicles etc good. Even if it doesn't address legions as long as the book and army is actually usable then they can supplement legions

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

In 2nd ed people were able to create a fluffy squat army. Things have moved on snce then.

Unfortunately, at least from the squat standpoint. Still, it's a valid point. It seemed to me though Chaos overall wasn't that bad off with 3.5 into 4th edition though, once you included The Lost and the Damned list as an option (one of the best army lists ever for doing "counts as" armies, also) Things seemed to drift downward for Chaos since that point, though.

At this point it won't be a bad thing to had a Black Crusade supplement; bringing back some of the Eye of Terror stuff wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Fluff? Thousand Sons as an army don't exist in the game. Kharn looks so sick man, I need to paint him and put him on a nice base.

I've been losing with this army for over a decade and it's getting old. If my Thousand Sons can throw Kharn into [anything] turn 1, I'm doing it until I get new TS stuff, fluff be damned :p



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Kharn hooooooooooooooooooooo

Well according to the GW Facebook community rep the new psychic powers DO have some unique powers.

And the rumours from people with the white dwarf also keep stating new chaos space marine codex rules and a "powerful" detachment. I think GW realizes chaos marines need help and this is a strong supplement but not going to be the chaos codex 3.5 or complete revamp people want. This is Defintely a placeholder leading into a much longer series of multiple campaigns as this is labeled only as book 1.

gungo wrote:
Well according to the GW Facebook community rep the new psychic powers DO have some unique powers.

And the rumours from people with the white dwarf also keep stating new chaos space marine codex rules and a "powerful" detachment. I think GW realizes chaos marines need help and this is a strong supplement but not going to be the chaos codex 3.5 or complete revamp people want. This is Defintely a placeholder leading into a much longer series of multiple campaigns as this is labeled only as book 1.

Powerful detachment: greater deamon of choice with 30 possessed.

I kid, I just don't want to get my hopes up. If Kharn can be used in KDK, I'll be happy, If he can somehow be shoved into a Fist of Khorne formation (no idea how this would work but it would be hilarious), I'll throw my wallet at GW.

Been disappointed too many times. Definitely waiting to see before buying.

gungo wrote:
Well according to the GW Facebook community rep the new psychic powers DO have some unique powers.

These might be new god-specific ones if they're expanding those into normal sized lores. Or they could be the new awful powers they'll be using to replace all the good ones in the lores they're porting over from AoD. We'll see...

And the rumours from people with the white dwarf also keep stating new chaos space marine codex rules and a "powerful" detachment.

Maybe it will give both Fear and Hatred (Space Marines). That way you won't feel left out no matter if you play Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter!

 dan2026 wrote:
Not sure I really see the point in this book.
Why not just do a new Codex Chaos Space Marines?

Because (and this is Sad Panda, so tantamount to hard fact) 7th is a lame duck and they're not doing any new proper codex updates until they know where they're at.

Why are people so adamant arguing against Legion like rules for CSM. That boggles the mind.

You can do fluffy this and that.

Well, you know how to make it more fluffy? Use rules that support building that theme.

NamelessBard wrote:
Why are people so adamant arguing against Legion like rules for CSM. That boggles the mind.

You can do fluffy this and that.

Well, you know how to make it more fluffy? Use rules that support building that theme.

We had that once.

It was written by Pete Haines and resulted in some of the most broken garbage imaginable, thanks to Iron Warriors.

Anyways, who is really arguing against Legion like rules for CSM?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

And the rumours from people with the white dwarf also keep stating new chaos space marine codex rules and a "powerful" detachment.

Maybe it will give both Fear and Hatred (Space Marines). That way you won't feel left out no matter if you play Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter!

Due to a typo though, they end up with fear of Space Marines.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Maybe it will give both Fear and Hatred (Space Marines). That way you won't feel left out no matter if you play Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter!

Yes, Fear, thats a useful ability in a game dominated by people that Know No Fear. So clearly thats what Chaos will get universally rather than in small ammounts.

 Kanluwen wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
Why are people so adamant arguing against Legion like rules for CSM. That boggles the mind.

You can do fluffy this and that.

Well, you know how to make it more fluffy? Use rules that support building that theme.

We had that once.

It was written by Pete Haines and resulted in some of the most broken garbage imaginable, thanks to Iron Warriors.

Anyways, who is really arguing against Legion like rules for CSM?

That wasn't any fault of the actual system though, just that the IW rules happened to be broken. Legion rules would just be like chapter tactics for SM.

But yeah, no one has really argued against it I don't think.

Rumors of people who have seen it allows Kharn in KDK but yeah, nothing wrong with waiting to see. My first game vs Kharn depends on this, naturally, and I'm hoping to face a badass Kharn army

I am counting on being disappointed again, and the bar is so low already... I would really love to see more Legion specific stuff like Legion tactics but I guess that's going to be on hold for a while.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Rumors of people who have seen it allows Kharn in KDK but yeah, nothing wrong with waiting to see. My first game vs Kharn depends on this, naturally, and I'm hoping to face a badass Kharn army

If nothing else, that would make me want to start a KDK army. Regular CSM are fail. But KDK seem like they would be fun.

anyone heard what model is on the next WD mag??

It's cool that they are trying to release these supplements and everything. I like the new psychic powers, formations and detachments. But at the end of the day, our codex still does not function properly.

Until we get points reductions and cheap, useful assault vehicles we are essentially a one legged assault army trying to bring a knife to a machine gun fight.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Rumors of people who have seen it allows Kharn in KDK but yeah, nothing wrong with waiting to see. My first game vs Kharn depends on this, naturally, and I'm hoping to face a badass Kharn army

If nothing else, that would make me want to start a KDK army. Regular CSM are fail. But KDK seem like they would be fun.

I played vs KDK in Sweden and was very very surprised no Kharn. Offered to let opponent use that as I "clearly saw that as an oversight or typo" but he declined.

 Brometheus wrote:
Fluff? Thousand Sons as an army don't exist in the game. Kharn looks so sick man, I need to paint him and put him on a nice base.

I've been losing with this army for over a decade and it's getting old. If my Thousand Sons can throw Kharn into [anything] turn 1, I'm doing it until I get new TS stuff, fluff be damned :p



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Kharn hooooooooooooooooooooo

I dunno. Assuming the powers are mostly the same as the equivalent marine powers, tzeentch might benefit from this book quite a bit.
Ahriman could kill any one vehicle a turn with heretech powers(or whatever it's called). Including flyers iirc, not sure if you need to roll to hit on Machine flense.
Any tzeentch themed army already got a little buff with the conclave, but now they get a whole lot more tools.
Tzeentch units benefit the most from veil of time, even the terminators look ok with a rerollable 2+/4++. Still doesn't make them competitive and a far cry from proper rules but it should help with normal games.

 Kanluwen wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
Why are people so adamant arguing against Legion like rules for CSM. That boggles the mind.

You can do fluffy this and that.

Well, you know how to make it more fluffy? Use rules that support building that theme.

We had that once.

It was written by Pete Haines and resulted in some of the most broken garbage imaginable, thanks to Iron Warriors.

Anyways, who is really arguing against Legion like rules for CSM?

The ironic thing is that while those things were "OP" in those days (and really, it wasn't THAT bad) it would be just "meh" if we were using the 3.5 Codex in the current version of 40k.

Use Crimson Slaughter they all have fear.

Gree wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 redleger wrote:

If I want Fear stuff for my non-Raptor Marines I have to go for Nurgle stuff.

 loki old fart wrote:
anyone heard what model is on the next WD mag??

There isn't one. There's a free comic to promote the new 40K comics. Third issue is rumoured to have a model but no clues yet.

Oldmike wrote:

Fun fact thousand sons in 3ed (not 3.5) cast the same as they do now had 2wounds and ignore weapons less then strength 5

Well now im just freakin insulted. That sounds amazing, even if you drop the Weapon immunity.

 Kanluwen wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
Why are people so adamant arguing against Legion like rules for CSM. That boggles the mind.

You can do fluffy this and that.

Well, you know how to make it more fluffy? Use rules that support building that theme.

We had that once.

It was written by Pete Haines and resulted in some of the most broken garbage imaginable, thanks to Iron Warriors.

Anyways, who is really arguing against Legion like rules for CSM?

I had a lot of fun with my Thousand Sons under that list.

Has anyone noticed that GW just said this is "part 1"? Any other rumors about Traitors Hate 2?

I expect Black Crusade: Part 1 is the more likely.