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I have been pondering this for awhile, I have made several suggestions in regards to this subject and for the most part have been shot down so I am a bit curious. What do you guys think of Lootas and what would be a good way to make them more playable?


Atm my biggest problems with Lootas are:
1: Heavy Support choices in an incredibly crowded heavy support slot (They used to be elites)
2: Glass Peashooters. Not even glass cannons, they tend to die as soon as they are targeted. Any weapon with Ignores Cover eats them alive.
3: HIGHLY unpredictable. They either put out 45 shots (15hits) a turn or they put out 15 shots (5 hits)
and finally
4: They are boring, there are no upgrades for them, they can't do anything besides shoot and die.


I honestly don't know how they could be improved, every time I say reduce the cost of them all it does is lowers the investment into a crappy unit. And nobody really wants to see them drop to much more.

When I point out how little Dakka they have and suggest adding D3+1 or maybe upping their BS to 3 people say that is to much.

Going with not enough dakka is how random they are, they either put out a lot of shots or they fall on their faces. Adding to that problem is the fact that they are LD7 with a 6+ Save. They tend to die and then run off the board.....A LOT!

Finally, they carry a heavy weapon so they don't usually run around the board, they don't have armor so they can't tank shots, they don't have good leadership so they run off the board a lot and they have ZERO upgrades to make them better in anyway shape or form unless you really want to lose a gun and add in a Mek to give you that all important Mob Rule (Kill yourself) LD check.

What do you think would be a good way to make Lootas more playable or at the very least more enjoyable to field.

I think that fielding Lootas as a "artillery" unit of dakkagunners is boring, especially since they're in the same slot as Mek Gunz. That, and the fact that somehow fielding a giant artillery cannon is somehow beneath an Ork yet strapping a smaller gun to your body is somehow Orky also eludes me.

Part of me feels like they should be a "tech" unit/specialist unit capable of some gimmicks here and there. They're an Elite that start off with non-Twinlinked Dakkagunz and Blue Paint (a 6+ Invulnerable Save, or +1 to existing Invulnerables) and everytime a model within 6"-12" (tweak the range) of a Loota dies, there is a chance of one of the Loota units being able to "acquire" a weapon that model used to carry.

Optionally, should they succeed in wrecking a vehicle or killing a Monstrous Creature, they may remove a number of models to their unit equal to the max wounds/HP of the dead vehicle/monster in order to "take control" of it.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I think that fielding Lootas as a "artillery" unit of dakkagunners is boring, especially since they're in the same slot as Mek Gunz. That, and the fact that somehow fielding a giant artillery cannon is somehow beneath an Ork yet strapping a smaller gun to your body is somehow Orky also eludes me.

Part of me feels like they should be a "tech" unit/specialist unit capable of some gimmicks here and there. They're an Elite that start off with non-Twinlinked Dakkagunz and Blue Paint (a 6+ Invulnerable Save, or +1 to existing Invulnerables) and everytime a model within 6"-12" (tweak the range) of a Loota dies, there is a chance of one of the Loota units being able to "acquire" a weapon that model used to carry.

Optionally, should they succeed in wrecking a vehicle or killing a Monstrous Creature, they may remove a number of models to their unit equal to the max wounds/HP of the dead vehicle/monster in order to "take control" of it.

Controlling an enemy vehicle/MC would be really, really cool. And probably also really, really unbalanced.

I don't really use them in units larger than 5 models. I do use 2 ,3 or more units like that depending on what I'm doing with that list.
My last game I used two mobs of 5. one mob rolled 15 shot 3 out of 4 turns the other rolled 10 for 2 or 3 turns and only 5 for a turn or two, can't exactly remember. That's fairly good for so low of a points investment. It also takes more commitment from enemy units to remove them. What did they kill. Stealth Suits, Tau Skimmers and wounded Crisis suits, removed drones and were killed.They supported my green tide, with 10 big shootas and 2 Dakka Jets. They did really well.
For me keeping them cheap has worked really well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Adding this in, I'd love it if they were BS3 for the same points costs they are now!

I think Lootas are actually okay as they are though they are a bit one dimensional. Gitfindas, bosspole, ammo runts, D3 re-rolling and camo cloak-esque equipment would be a nice addition though.

Heavy Support is definitely overcrowded but there aren't many good choices there except Battlewagons, Mek Gunz and of course the Lootas themselves. Lootas feel like a true HS choice to me but Flash Gitz should be moved to Elites and perhaps they'd get used occasionally.

I don't think the Over crowded heavy support is even an issue in 7th edition with 7th edition list building. Maybe if your restricting yourself to some kind of format but not in normal games.

 warhead01 wrote:
I don't think the Over crowded heavy support is even an issue in 7th edition with 7th edition list building. Maybe if your restricting yourself to some kind of format but not in normal games.

well if you want to take them and not have to worry about HS slots as an ork player you then have to invest in 2 squads of useless grots and a Big Mek. So your taking about 100pts worth of garbage objective holders just to ensure you can take a couple extra HS slots and that is only if your tournament or local area allows multiple CADS or detachments/formations.

The only competitive builds from orks involve utilizing a lot of heavy support slots for Mek gunz or Battlewagons to transport Elite/troop choices into CC.

I think moving them to Elite makes sense. I also think a couple of our units should be able to be taken in multiple CAD slots. Kanz should be elite/heavy, Burna/Tankbustas should be elite/troop and so on it would be crazy but it would give the ork players more tactical flexibility without wasting points on useless units.

I always take 1 or 2 mobs of grot anyway, mostly to unlock extra slots or as a way to take units that aren't boys mobs. So it's all the same to me. I don't really thing the elite slots are very good right now and I would be for more dakka, that would let me easily double down on slots in a more useful way. effectively opening 6 useful slots. Right now if I only had one of your ideas to choose from, I think BS 3 is winning. But it's a close race, now that I'm thinking about it. that could be those 6 more slots...

BS 3 means instead of 10 shots hitting out of 30 it would be 15, so basically a 50% increase in HIT rate. Not bad but it also really doesn't address the other huge problems that Lootas have. AND Considering they are 14pts a model they are literally paying 8pts for those Deff Gunz. CSM havocs (arguably just as bad as Lootas) pay 10pts for a Autocannon which is a guaranteed 2 shots a turn, and they have BS4 instead of BS2 as well as being on a more survivable platform.

Eldar are probably the worst offender in regards to this line. Windriders are 17pts and a Scatbiker is 27pts. So for 10pts your gaining a BS4 S6AP6 Range 36 gun that can be spammed on a model with T4 3+ armor and a 4+ Jink save. ohh and did I mention they are JET BIKES! so good luck catching them.

if GW would stop being stupid about upgrades they would address these problems.

I think I see where your going with this. It is more or less the same reason I field them in units of 5. I keep their costs low and minimize my losses when they either run away or are killed.
I've mentioned the teef economy before. I like the deff gun the way it is, maybe it should be a 5 point weapon but your paying for more range and more strength than a big shoota, even though it's a Heavy weapon. Maybe it should be 1+D3. who knows. I'd prefer the Ork army to just get piped up to BS3 across the board. Orks don't have as many good AP weapons, beyond rockits, that are "spammed out". Like tank bustas where every ones got one.
I think it would be totally fair in this edition, given how shooting is so strong right now. If the number of shots or their BS doesn't go up, I'd be happy with them moving to an Elite slot. I'd still use them the same way but it would cost me less grot tax to field my KMK's. ( I have 10 of them now!!! Should I by 5 more...?)
The thing that I am still thinking about is Unboud lists. By my way of applying it I build my bound army then just add what ever with out the extra tax. I know it's some what frowned upon but it's still there. I think starting with a bound army makes this sort of thing more digestible for other players.

Lootas perform ok as they are. However, in no way they're 'lootas'. Just 'Deffgunnaz'. And it makes me sad.

The way i'd improve them is give them free reign on taking whatever stuff they want all from different codexes as they're supposed to be looting shiny and loud guns.

Bolters, stormbolters, assault cannons, missile launchers, plazma cannons, scatlasers, shuricannons, lazcannons, sniper rifles, heavy stabbers, meltas and so on. That's what they should be able te pick from. And autocannons if you want them to be fielded as is.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Controlling an enemy vehicle/MC would be really, really cool. And probably also really, really unbalanced.

Honestly, I don't really think it would be *that* unbalanced. You have to actually kill the thing in Melee *with* your Lootas, whom themselves are squishy so you have to soften the bloody thing up first with other supporting elements. Compared to (as an example), the Cyclopea Cabal mind-controlling the unit's shooting from a distance, there's a greater inherent risk in attempting to "Loot" the enemy unit in close combat.

You did not specify melee combat-or if you did, I just missed it.

And I still feel like it'd be a booper to balance. On the one hand, if they aren't killy enough, they'll never get to use it, making it a useless rule. If they ARE killy enough, then you can nab stuff like Land Raiders, Daemon Princes, Knights... At full Strength, midway through the game.

I really don't like that idea. I'd be happy if they could just pay for looted stuff. Not a fan if the in game looting idea.

adding in a few ammunition dumps to your terrain pool can lead to some fun shooting

 JNAProductions wrote:
You did not specify melee combat-or if you did, I just missed it.

And I still feel like it'd be a booper to balance. On the one hand, if they aren't killy enough, they'll never get to use it, making it a useless rule. If they ARE killy enough, then you can nab stuff like Land Raiders, Daemon Princes, Knights... At full Strength, midway through the game.

I forgot to mention it. It would be silly if they could shoot a Landspeeder across the map then suddenly teleport into it once it wrecks.
But yes, they have to deliver the "killing blow" in melee, which is the key to using them; that and hoping your opponent doesn't block off the assault vectors to your *really* powerful units.
RAW, they wouldn't be able to loot a Super-Heavy in-game because any SHV automatically suffers Catastrophic Damage on losing its last hull point. RAI, that would probably need to be tweaked.
As for the "Looted Daemon Princes", it would probably be a fair point to add a restriction that you cannot loot "Characters" in this manner. (Non-character Vehicle/MC). So you could do something like the Looted Carnifex (and let's face it, people do mod it) but the Looted Flyrant is a no-go.

Either way, Orks definitely could use some "love" in terms of "utility options" and the idea of being able to steal their vehicles has its appeal.

The "Use options from another army's unit entry" option is also another way to go about it, if you so desired.

It makes no sense that they can loot it instantly. They just destroyed a tank. It is not magically working again just because you replaced the driver.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It makes no sense that they can loot it instantly. They just destroyed a tank. It is not magically working again just because you replaced the driver.

They are Orks...

Step 1: put them in elites. They should never have left.

Step 2: give them rhinos, ghost arks, land raiders, wave serpents, chimeras, raiders, tauroxes, basically everyone else's transport as their dedicated transport pool. Have them make it BS2 because orks can't aim. They might be squishy but if they can take their pick of the 40k metal box motor pool then that gives them a lot of versatility. You can put them in a wave serpent for protection, or a land raider so you can fit 15 of them. Maybe prevent them from taking a vehicle from a faction that you allied with for fluff reasons. Yes, you can plasticard up one of those vehicles and use it as an ork vehicle, but there are vehicles that aren't represented well by trukks, battlewagons or looted wagons.

Step 3: let them purchase some gear. Nothing too fancy, just stuff like camo cloaks, armor, and melee weapons.

Step 4: drop their cost by one point and make deffguns heavy D2+1. Maybe give them sluggas so they can shoot at things if they have to move, or shoot+charge.

This is my fix to lootas that should bring them back in line with the fluff while making them more powerful options.

Edit: forgot to cite my inspiration. Props to dr. Zoidbork for inspiring this.

They should be able to purchase heavy armor. It is silly that they can't. At the end of the day, I would just be happy if they could take looted wagons as a dedicated transport again. It would help with how crowded the heavy support section is. For that matter, I think every deff dread you take, you should be able to take a unit of killa kans (without taking up an extra heavy support slot).

I think them having a specific rule to be able to use other races dedicated transports would be neat. The main issue is they compete with Mech Guns.

I think that having meks be able to give upgrades to the unit's weapons (Kustomization!) would solve the immediate problem of lack of customization for lootas and most of the other ork units. As for making them interesting, while I am of the opinion that having a straight forward unit is okay, perhaps vehicles wrecked (not exploded) by lootas become objectives for the ork army.

What if lootas got a bonus for killing certain things thoughout the game? Kill an HQ? gain +1 Ap. Kill a Heavy Support, Gain +1 shot.

All this stuff is great, but you're whistling past a (looted) graveyard if you don't email GW again, and again, and again.

What's their max unit size? Could you field a horde with some Mega Armored Gits to move them while shooting help with LD and tank incoming shots?

Before deployment let the unit roll a D6 to "kustomize" their weapon which modifies the deffgun slightly. Something like -1 to enemy cover saves, pinning, AP3, poison, rending, etc. Maybe let them have a rule that is impractical but fluffy where if they wipe out a unit in CC or get into base contact with a wrecked vehicle that they can roll on the table again and add that property to their gun (repeats are wasted). Gives them a boost in power while making them "unreliable and orky" but without the downside that so much of the random rolls tend to be for the Orks. Maybe having a mek in the unit allows a reroll on the kustomize table.

Also I am fine with lootas being Heavy Support as they act very similar to Devastator Marines, Broadsides, etc which are heavy support. What needs to be moved to the Elite slot are Flash Gitz while Killa Kanz and Deffdreads need to not compete for the same slots.

I kind of think lootas are OK as they are, but maybe could do with costing a couple of points fewer. A suggestion I saw someone make on here a while ago which I liked was to allow Lootas with a mek in the mob to reroll the number of shots. Nice and fluffy and means there's actually a reason to take a mek. Maybe let him keep the deffgun too.

I like the Mek for the rerolling the number of shots idea.

I'd like to see Nobs being able to buy Deff Guns.
Like the Old kustum kombi weapon, I think that's what it was called.
I'd really like the WAAAGH rule expanded to shooting units the way it works for WAAAGH Planes as well.

 warhead01 wrote:

I'd really like the WAAAGH rule expanded to shooting units the way it works for WAAAGH Planes as well.

Now That'd be a hilarious buff. drowning people in slugga fire before charging in. This extra punch is invaluable to choppaboyz. And shootas with assault 3. 2-shot rokkits and 1+d3 shot deffgunz. Man, it'd justify ghazcurion. Well, it'd kinda overbuff tankbustas compared to flash gitz and even lootas.

Oh, wow. I missed all of that when I was thinking aboput it! I was just thinking my shoota boys and the like would get more shots! That would really be even more amazing!!!
Don't know if rockits would/should get it. but heck, why not!