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 cuteywitdabooty wrote:
Yea I agreed to all the stuff, if taking away units and not playing certain things makes him happy then it's an easy fix.. I'm new.. I see something and I'm like ohh shineyyy let me play with this. I have no idea what im doing I'm just painting things and rolling dice.. not really that big of a deal. I already told him to tailor my list that way I don't grab something unreasonable. I tabled the spiders and haven't played the wraith since game 1.. I also took out the units of bikes and downgraded some the scats to skurken.. after reading half the comments I might be the salty one now lol

Welcome to the community. Not sure if anyone has actually done that yet since, you know... Eldar.

Also, welcome to being an Eldar player lol. This is kinda what happens with us.

Have you chosen a craftworld's lore you like in particular? I'd be happy to help you find fluffy lists that meet with your craftworld's lore that tone down the army you're in. Alternatively, there's always themed lists besides craftworld lists that are fun and use the shiny new things.

Personally I'd bump the Chaos points before removing Eldar units - like I mentioned earlier, I don't think an Eldar player should be penalized and not be able to use certain models that he/she have painted up and spent time assembling etc.

Just toss another 300-400 points to the Chaos player and have at it.

SemperMortis wrote:
(Quote truncated for brevity)

I actually spelled out that I didn't want to include ridiculous formations, because if that is what we are doing then lets just start lumping Wraithknight spam and Scatbike spam and Warpspider spam into the mix shall we?

I was going by the basic CHEAPEST ML1 character available to each codex, the only mistake I made was the zoanthropes, I don't play against Nids to often so I forgot they get a 3++.

The fact remains that for 35pts an Eldar player can add a warlock to a number of units which buffs the eldar army immensely. And as far as acting as batteries for the better psykers.....so what? Your farseers can very easily become god like with their abilities to reroll and basically ignore perils.

If you want to play the game of who has the best what I would suggest you go look at the numerous threads already on that subject, here is a hint, Eldar usually are in 1st or 2nd place in regards to most of those polls. "Who has the best Psykers" "Who has the best Troops" and so on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ohh and I forgot to mention this earlier...Orks aren't a melee specialist army, if that was the case we would be a hell of a lot better at melee then we are. S3 and I2 on Melee troops generally isn't that great

Point of order. You're conflating two very different questions. Taking the answer to "what's the best generic/broadly-available ML1 psyker" and equating it to "what army has the best psykers" isn't particularly helpful.

As to the first question I'd put the Inquisition before the Eldar. An Inquisition psyker doesn't have a 4++, a fleshbane melee attack, or a pseudo-rending pistol, but I can get three for less than the price of a Warlock and I can tailor the squad they're supporting quite a bit more.

If you're going to ask "what army's got the best psykers" and then add on "...naked, without formations, without special characters, and without considering what their powers actually do for you" yes, the answer is easily Eldar. If you ask the question without qualifiers it's probably Space Marines, Eldar, and Daemons in that order. You've been making rather grandiose statements about the brokenness of Eldar psykers in a heavily constrained environment that didn't make a lot of sense to me, I don't dispute that they're good but they're not exactly outliers.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
(Quote truncated for brevity)

I actually spelled out that I didn't want to include ridiculous formations, because if that is what we are doing then lets just start lumping Wraithknight spam and Scatbike spam and Warpspider spam into the mix shall we?

I was going by the basic CHEAPEST ML1 character available to each codex, the only mistake I made was the zoanthropes, I don't play against Nids to often so I forgot they get a 3++.

The fact remains that for 35pts an Eldar player can add a warlock to a number of units which buffs the eldar army immensely. And as far as acting as batteries for the better psykers.....so what? Your farseers can very easily become god like with their abilities to reroll and basically ignore perils.

If you want to play the game of who has the best what I would suggest you go look at the numerous threads already on that subject, here is a hint, Eldar usually are in 1st or 2nd place in regards to most of those polls. "Who has the best Psykers" "Who has the best Troops" and so on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ohh and I forgot to mention this earlier...Orks aren't a melee specialist army, if that was the case we would be a hell of a lot better at melee then we are. S3 and I2 on Melee troops generally isn't that great

Point of order. You're conflating two very different questions. Taking the answer to "what's the best generic/broadly-available ML1 psyker" and equating it to "what army has the best psykers" isn't particularly helpful.

As to the first question I'd put the Inquisition before the Eldar. An Inquisition psyker doesn't have a 4++, a fleshbane melee attack, or a pseudo-rending pistol, but I can get three for less than the price of a Warlock and I can tailor the squad they're supporting quite a bit more.

If you're going to ask "what army's got the best psykers" and then add on "...naked, without formations, without special characters, and without considering what their powers actually do for you" yes, the answer is easily Eldar. If you ask the question without qualifiers it's probably Space Marines, Eldar, and Daemons in that order. You've been making rather grandiose statements about the brokenness of Eldar psykers in a heavily constrained environment that didn't make a lot of sense to me, I don't dispute that they're good but they're not exactly outliers.

'

The original point may have gotten lost in the mix, but it started out as a demonstration of how GOOD a warlock is, since originally it was dismissed as a toss away model. In any other codex it would be either a good HQ choice or a good addition to a squad and would be seen frequently. In the Eldar Codex not so much because they have a ton of things that are so stupidly OP that the warlock is over shadowed.

I also left out the sub factions like Inquisition and such because they really aren't a standalone army.

deathmagiks wrote:

 cuteywitdabooty wrote:
Yea I agreed to all the stuff, if taking away units and not playing certain things makes him happy then it's an easy fix.. I'm new.. I see something and I'm like ohh shineyyy let me play with this. I have no idea what im doing I'm just painting things and rolling dice.. not really that big of a deal. I already told him to tailor my list that way I don't grab something unreasonable. I tabled the spiders and haven't played the wraith since game 1.. I also took out the units of bikes and downgraded some the scats to skurken.. after reading half the comments I might be the salty one now lol

Welcome to the community. Not sure if anyone has actually done that yet since, you know... Eldar.

Also, welcome to being an Eldar player lol. This is kinda what happens with us.

Have you chosen a craftworld's lore you like in particular? I'd be happy to help you find fluffy lists that meet with your craftworld's lore that tone down the army you're in. Alternatively, there's always themed lists besides craftworld lists that are fun and use the shiny new things.

Thanks! I picked saim hann, Honestly.. (and I apologize ahead of time, I lack a filter).. BF told me about the Eldar and their back ground and I was like sweet, They are freaky, pleasure driven and not afraid to chase down what they want and they shoot stuff.. (Sounds like my kinda peeps and my first date)... Little did I know that they would be top tier and everyone will hate you for breathing the same air as them. I don't mind toning down the list.. and throwing him some extra points.. We did that for AoS cause yet again I picked the Stormcast Eternal.. cause you guessed it,, They are shiney!.. Notice the pattern here folks.. Easily amused.. cute and deadly.. same thing happen for dark age, I picked the nasier.. (cause come on man they have boobies!) and he picked the werewolves.. same problem.. From now on, Im making him pick my armies LOL... but def feel free to send info my way..

SemperMortis wrote:

(Quote retruncated)

The original point may have gotten lost in the mix, but it started out as a demonstration of how GOOD a warlock is, since originally it was dismissed as a toss away model. In any other codex it would be either a good HQ choice or a good addition to a squad and would be seen frequently. In the Eldar Codex not so much because they have a ton of things that are so stupidly OP that the warlock is over shadowed.

I also left out the sub factions like Inquisition and such because they really aren't a standalone army.

And I don't think Warlocks are anywhere near as good as you seem to. A single Warlock is a terrible HQ choice; he isn't an Independent Character, provides only self-range powers, and has no offensive potential. All he'd really accomplish is giving up First Blood really easily. As a squad the Seer Council is pretty inefficient, it's an expensive way to give another psyker more Warp Charge or an expensive tanky deathstar that can't kill anything. Warlocks in Guardian squads are okay, but their list of powers don't really benefit their squads much.

They're usable, but they're mediocre by comparison to HQ psykers and squad-leader psykers in almost any other army. Even a GK Strike Squad has powers that interact better with what the squad's there to do than a Warlock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cuteywitdabooty wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:

 cuteywitdabooty wrote:
Yea I agreed to all the stuff, if taking away units and not playing certain things makes him happy then it's an easy fix.. I'm new.. I see something and I'm like ohh shineyyy let me play with this. I have no idea what im doing I'm just painting things and rolling dice.. not really that big of a deal. I already told him to tailor my list that way I don't grab something unreasonable. I tabled the spiders and haven't played the wraith since game 1.. I also took out the units of bikes and downgraded some the scats to skurken.. after reading half the comments I might be the salty one now lol

Welcome to the community. Not sure if anyone has actually done that yet since, you know... Eldar.

Also, welcome to being an Eldar player lol. This is kinda what happens with us.

Have you chosen a craftworld's lore you like in particular? I'd be happy to help you find fluffy lists that meet with your craftworld's lore that tone down the army you're in. Alternatively, there's always themed lists besides craftworld lists that are fun and use the shiny new things.

Thanks! I picked saim hann, Honestly.. (and I apologize ahead of time, I lack a filter).. BF told me about the Eldar and their back ground and I was like sweet, They are freaky, pleasure driven and not afraid to chase down what they want and they shoot stuff.. (Sounds like my kinda peeps and my first date)... Little did I know that they would be top tier and everyone will hate you for breathing the same air as them. I don't mind toning down the list.. and throwing him some extra points.. We did that for AoS cause yet again I picked the Stormcast Eternal.. cause you guessed it,, They are shiney!.. Notice the pattern here folks.. Easily amused.. cute and deadly.. same thing happen for dark age, I picked the nasier.. (cause come on man they have boobies!) and he picked the werewolves.. same problem.. From now on, Im making him pick my armies LOL... but def feel free to send info my way..

Thinking out loud here, but if you'd be up for doing some kitbashing/conversion work and digging up an Imperial Armour book you could try Corsair jetbikes. They're a little more in line with "your kinda peeps" than the Craftworlders are usually portrayed as, and they're more flexible than Craftworld jetbikes (Craftworlders are stuck as a fast source of S6 spam, Corsair bikes can kit up for melee or run guns that can handle different targets (Dark Lances, splinter cannons)). The Chaos Marines would have a more fun time with a Jetbike unit that tried to stab them in the face than one that plays keep-away with scatter lasers.

XvReaperXv wrote:Well, of course we talk about it before hand, its just she doesn't understand why I think a lot of her codex is just flat out stupid, and no fun to play against. She sees it as me saying you cant take half the models you spent hours painting. And I can see her side of that, no one should have to shelve half their army for something not in their control.

This is what you need:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

Since you are playing against Eldar, then you are probably going to get tabled every time.

So, no changing that.

However, you are married to your opponent.

So I'm sure that you can both find some way to condition you psychologically to look forward to getting tabled.

 Traditio wrote:
...Since you are playing against Eldar, then you are probably going to get tabled every time...

I thought we were trying to find a way around this?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
...Since you are playing against Eldar, then you are probably going to get tabled every time...

I thought we were trying to find a way around this?

Lolno.

Not against Eldar cheese.

 Traditio wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
...Since you are playing against Eldar, then you are probably going to get tabled every time...

I thought we were trying to find a way around this?

Lolno.

Not against Eldar cheese.

I just want to say that as an Eldar player who's been making an effort to find a way to play normally with this stupid-*bleep* Codex your casual dismissal depresses me to no end.

AnomanderRake wrote:I just want to say that as an Eldar player who's been making an effort to find a way to play normally with this stupid-*bleep* Codex your casual dismissal depresses me to no end.

Well, you could always burn that stupid *bleep* Codex and use the 6th ed codex. Minus wave serpents and wraithknights, of course.

Even better: break out the 5th ed codex and use the 6th ed numbers for hull points.

But I doubt that his wife will be willing to do either of these things.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You really can't make a toned down list with eldar. The only not great units in the army are rangers/howling banshees/and vibro cannons. I routinely house competitive armies with "toned down" eldar lists. The problem is eldar weapons are just flat out better than everyone elses.

You are crushing competitive armies with Storm Guardians and Swooping Hawks? Wow.

 cuteywitdabooty wrote:
I picked the nasier.. (cause come on man they have boobies!)

Dark eldar are even boobier! It's part of being attracted to eldar. You stomp the opponent (husband) and when he whines you reciever Power From His Pain. Yep, you definitely should try dark eldar.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

The original point may have gotten lost in the mix, but it started out as a demonstration of how GOOD a warlock is, since originally it was dismissed as a toss away model. In any other codex it would be either a good HQ choice or a good addition to a squad and would be seen frequently. In the Eldar Codex not so much because they have a ton of things that are so stupidly OP that the warlock is over shadowed.

I also left out the sub factions like Inquisition and such because they really aren't a standalone army.

And I don't think Warlocks are anywhere near as good as you seem to. A single Warlock is a terrible HQ choice; he isn't an Independent Character, provides only self-range powers, and has no offensive potential. All he'd really accomplish is giving up First Blood really easily. As a squad the Seer Council is pretty inefficient, it's an expensive way to give another psyker more Warp Charge or an expensive tanky deathstar that can't kill anything. Warlocks in Guardian squads are okay, but their list of powers don't really benefit their squads much.

They're usable, but they're mediocre by comparison to HQ psykers and squad-leader psykers in almost any other army. Even a GK Strike Squad has powers that interact better with what the squad's there to do than a Warlock.

Again, I am not comparing it to the BEST options out there. This is a point your really not getting. The original point was that if you removed all the GREAT OP crap from the Eldar codex that the left behind units wouldn't be playable because they are to weak. I am pointing out that for the most part that is utterly wrong. In the Ork Codex the Warlock would be better then our current psyker. In the SM Codex it would be acceptable because of the ++ with the plethora of special rules and how cheap it was. In the IG Codex again, same principle, in the Nid codex the ability to take psykers on troops choices would be amazing.

Eldar players tend to hate these arguments because they are reminded that the units they consider to be garbage are for the most part the AVERAGE unit that most other codexs have to deal with.

Guardians aren't very good in the Eldar Codex, in a number of other codex's they would be heralded as far better troops then currently available. Fire Prisms same thing. The list goes on and on, so the point is that while yes you would lose a lot of power if you were not to field Scat bikes, Wraithknights, warp spiders, fire dragons, D weapons, D wraithguard and so on you would still be left with a solid core of units that would be more then playable against the Have no codex's.

How not to get salty? How about have a fun game and know that your opponent is playing an army he/she loves and enjoys playing because that is who they are, an Eldar player.

Feel pity for those people who play Eldar because they need to win with plastic toy soldiers and they only jumped on Eldar because it's the easy thing to do and know once Eldar become less powerful or a more powerful codex comes out they will jump to that codex.

Or how about just have fun no matter what because you are playing an army you love and you don't need to win with plastic toy soldiers and just enjoy it no matter how powerful your opponent's codex is and how underpowered your is. Enjoy that you can actually get a game in and just have FUN.

To get salty over something you know is an already imbalanced game and get upset with speaks more of our character than it is GW. After all if my parents were alive they would say "Davor why you so stupid and getting angry to play something you already know in right or fair. You have know one but yourself to blame buy yourself. Either accept it or walk away."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought this was against strangers, but this is against your wife? You are salty playing your wife? She is playing an army she likes the look of. She is playing the army she likes/loves. She didn't pick an army because it's the best or easiest, but the way it looks, and fluff I believe. So you can't blame her.

As I said, be happy for her because she is an Eldar, just like you are a Chaos Space Marine. Just put in your house rules and PRACTICE. Find out where the point limit bonuses you get are. Should you get 100 points more? 1000 points more? Play games and try them out.

If anyone is salty it's you for not even trying these out. We complain about GW not doing any play testing but you don't want to be play testing either. Know that 40K is not a balanced system. So you will have to find that balance. So if it's like was said 1850 Eldar vs 2150 CSM so be it. If it works then it's perfect because she can field what she wants, and not feel bad and you can field what you want and not field bad.

40K is a mess. Accept this. Understand this. Adjust to this. You are not playing strangers, but your life partner. So just like a marriage, change it so it works. No need to be salty when playing with your wife.

When 40K didn't work for me and my kids I changed the rules so they were ok so we all had fun. Kids like the rules for Lord of the Rings that GW put out. So I made it like 40K plays like Lord of the Rings and the kids had so much more fun. Simple as that.

Change what doesn't work, add in what does work. After all who is going to say you can't make your own "house rules" when the two of you play? Change what ever you want. Change what ever she wants. If it doesn't work, try it again. It's up to you two to find out what works for you.

So is this how a marriage consoler feels like?

 Traditio wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:I just want to say that as an Eldar player who's been making an effort to find a way to play normally with this stupid-*bleep* Codex your casual dismissal depresses me to no end.

Well, you could always burn that stupid *bleep* Codex and use the 6th ed codex. Minus wave serpents and wraithknights, of course.

Even better: break out the 5th ed codex and use the 6th ed numbers for hull points.

But I doubt that his wife will be willing to do either of these things.

I'm sorry, what? Despite popular opinion, not everything in the Eldar codex is "broken OP".

 cuteywitdabooty wrote:
Yea I agreed to all the stuff, if taking away units and not playing certain things makes him happy then it's an easy fix.. I'm new.. I see something and I'm like ohh shineyyy let me play with this. I have no idea what im doing I'm just painting things and rolling dice.. not really that big of a deal. I already told him to tailor my list that way I don't grab something unreasonable. I tabled the spiders and haven't played the wraith since game 1.. I also took out the units of bikes and downgraded some the scats to skurken.. after reading half the comments I might be the salty one now lol

Take whatever you want. If you like your Eldar, play them. If your opponent is picking a weak army, simply let him take more points to make up the difference in power. Or, put a portion of your forces in Reserves to reduce their effectiveness on the board. The myth that all games have to be equal points just doesn't apply if you're playing at home. It's not like you're preparing for a tournament or anything.

You like the Wraithknight? Play it! You like Warp Spiders and Scatbikes? Play them!

Just be aware that you might be bringing 1500 pts of "good" Eldar vs 2000 pts of his weak CSM. And that's totally fine.

Remember, this is for FUN, and a big part of that is playing an army that you like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:I just want to say that as an Eldar player who's been making an effort to find a way to play normally with this stupid-*bleep* Codex your casual dismissal depresses me to no end.

Well, you could always burn that stupid *bleep* Codex and use the 6th ed codex. Minus wave serpents and wraithknights, of course.

Even better: break out the 5th ed codex and use the 6th ed numbers for hull points.

But I doubt that his wife will be willing to do either of these things.

I'm sorry, what? Despite popular opinion, not everything in the Eldar codex is "broken OP".

You guys are feeding the biggest anti-Eldar troll on Dakka. It's best to just ignore the troll.

 Traditio wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:I just want to say that as an Eldar player who's been making an effort to find a way to play normally with this stupid-*bleep* Codex your casual dismissal depresses me to no end.

Well, you could always burn that stupid *bleep* Codex and use the 6th ed codex. Minus wave serpents and wraithknights, of course.

Even better: break out the 5th ed codex and use the 6th ed numbers for hull points.

But I doubt that his wife will be willing to do either of these things.

I'm sorry, but this is a pretty dumb suggestion. I'm using a current/official GW Codex in a game because I want to be able to play pick-up games with strangers, asking other people to analyze my attempt to composite bits and pieces of older books/houserules on the fly is unfair. And if I'm going to break from that and start writing houserules I'm going to do a damn sight more thorough job than stapling together a half-assed patch on older books.

(Also are you seriously suggesting I take the 4e book and add hull points? That entire book was at least 25% too expensive in the era it was written for, add three extra editions of power creep and I'd be setting records for the fastest time from deployment to getting tabled every single game.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

The original point may have gotten lost in the mix, but it started out as a demonstration of how GOOD a warlock is, since originally it was dismissed as a toss away model. In any other codex it would be either a good HQ choice or a good addition to a squad and would be seen frequently. In the Eldar Codex not so much because they have a ton of things that are so stupidly OP that the warlock is over shadowed.

I also left out the sub factions like Inquisition and such because they really aren't a standalone army.

And I don't think Warlocks are anywhere near as good as you seem to. A single Warlock is a terrible HQ choice; he isn't an Independent Character, provides only self-range powers, and has no offensive potential. All he'd really accomplish is giving up First Blood really easily. As a squad the Seer Council is pretty inefficient, it's an expensive way to give another psyker more Warp Charge or an expensive tanky deathstar that can't kill anything. Warlocks in Guardian squads are okay, but their list of powers don't really benefit their squads much.

They're usable, but they're mediocre by comparison to HQ psykers and squad-leader psykers in almost any other army. Even a GK Strike Squad has powers that interact better with what the squad's there to do than a Warlock.

Again, I am not comparing it to the BEST options out there. This is a point your really not getting. The original point was that if you removed all the GREAT OP crap from the Eldar codex that the left behind units wouldn't be playable because they are to weak. I am pointing out that for the most part that is utterly wrong. In the Ork Codex the Warlock would be better then our current psyker. In the SM Codex it would be acceptable because of the ++ with the plethora of special rules and how cheap it was. In the IG Codex again, same principle, in the Nid codex the ability to take psykers on troops choices would be amazing.

Eldar players tend to hate these arguments because they are reminded that the units they consider to be garbage are for the most part the AVERAGE unit that most other codexs have to deal with.

Guardians aren't very good in the Eldar Codex, in a number of other codex's they would be heralded as far better troops then currently available. Fire Prisms same thing. The list goes on and on, so the point is that while yes you would lose a lot of power if you were not to field Scat bikes, Wraithknights, warp spiders, fire dragons, D weapons, D wraithguard and so on you would still be left with a solid core of units that would be more then playable against the Have no codex's.

...I'm not comparing the Warlock to the best options in the game. I'm comparing the Warlock to all options in the game.

If you removed all the OP crap from the Eldar book it'd still be a fine book. This is not in dispute. The Warlock just happens to be a poor example of this, since it's actually mediocre compared to the game as a whole.

Trying to analyze the Warlock by listing off its special rules in a vacuum doesn't give the entire picture; it's mediocre because the Eldar are (without the most OP units) designed as an army of specialists and the Warlock doesn't contribute materially to what most of the units it can be taken with want to be doing. He's available in five different places (the Seer Council, Guardian Defenders, Storm Guardians, Windriders, and artillery). His list of powers is highly situational, and focuses on trying to turn Guardians into generalists in an unreliable and inefficient manner.

Pretty much every other psyker in the game can get more useful powers and do things other than cast powers. (I was going to list all psykers that are better than Warlocks, but the only psykers I found that weren't were Aspiring Sorcerers, Grey Knight Purgators, and Weirdboyz.)

Guardians, Wraithlords, and all the grav-tanks are all much better examples (point of fact the Warlock, Rangers, and the Vyper are the only things in the book I wouldn't call 'good units' by comparison to the broader game).

Davor wrote:
How not to get salty? How about have a fun game and know that your opponent is playing an army he/she loves and enjoys playing because that is who they are, an Eldar player.

Feel pity for those people who play Eldar because they need to win with plastic toy soldiers and they only jumped on Eldar because it's the easy thing to do and know once Eldar become less powerful or a more powerful codex comes out they will jump to that codex.

Or how about just have fun no matter what because you are playing an army you love and you don't need to win with plastic toy soldiers and just enjoy it no matter how powerful your opponent's codex is and how underpowered your is. Enjoy that you can actually get a game in and just have FUN.

To get salty over something you know is an already imbalanced game and get upset with speaks more of our character than it is GW. After all if my parents were alive they would say "Davor why you so stupid and getting angry to play something you already know in right or fair. You have know one but yourself to blame buy yourself. Either accept it or walk away."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought this was against strangers, but this is against your wife? You are salty playing your wife? She is playing an army she likes the look of. She is playing the army she likes/loves. She didn't pick an army because it's the best or easiest, but the way it looks, and fluff I believe. So you can't blame her.

As I said, be happy for her because she is an Eldar, just like you are a Chaos Space Marine. Just put in your house rules and PRACTICE. Find out where the point limit bonuses you get are. Should you get 100 points more? 1000 points more? Play games and try them out.

If anyone is salty it's you for not even trying these out. We complain about GW not doing any play testing but you don't want to be play testing either. Know that 40K is not a balanced system. So you will have to find that balance. So if it's like was said 1850 Eldar vs 2150 CSM so be it. If it works then it's perfect because she can field what she wants, and not feel bad and you can field what you want and not field bad.

40K is a mess. Accept this. Understand this. Adjust to this. You are not playing strangers, but your life partner. So just like a marriage, change it so it works. No need to be salty when playing with your wife.

When 40K didn't work for me and my kids I changed the rules so they were ok so we all had fun. Kids like the rules for Lord of the Rings that GW put out. So I made it like 40K plays like Lord of the Rings and the kids had so much more fun. Simple as that.

Change what doesn't work, add in what does work. After all who is going to say you can't make your own "house rules" when the two of you play? Change what ever you want. Change what ever she wants. If it doesn't work, try it again. It's up to you two to find out what works for you.

So is this how a marriage consoler feels like?

I don't have a problem not winning, I expect it, and i did have fun the first 5 or so games just playing my CSM, but it really feels like i'm just there to move targets to die, which is no fun. When you can pour 500 points of CSM shooting and not kill a unit, but the 95 point warp spiders jump all over the field killing 400+ points of units, its not fun, no matter who i'm playing. This post wasn't complaining about her army choice, or what models she wants to take, it was a post on how people deal with playing eldar and not getting mad, letting it roll of them.

Most people on here get a game a month or even less, and complain about eldar. Try bashing your face against this army 3x a week for a year and tell me if its still fun for you to just be playing the game. And yes, she has agreed to let me take more points, we are going to try some handicap next few games, see how it works out. She just needed to see it wasn't just me complaining lol.

Heldrakes are murder against the bikes at least.

Martel732 wrote:
Heldrakes are murder against the bikes at least.

Funny enough she gets salty as hell when I bring one lol.

Eldar don't really get to complain at this point.

I think we need to take another look at the Fire Prisim.

It has a mode of fire like a Battlecannon. Compare it to a LOT with a battle cannon. It's got better range, but both are long enough. It's got mobility and jink vs AV 14. It's got a small sidearm for small arms fire vs the LR options. Seems fair at that point....

Except that it's S5 vs S8. If you don't think that's huge, wtf. That is a huge tradeoff for viability.

It's got its Lance shot. BS4 not twinlinked. So about the same as a Las pred sans sponsons. For a lot more points. Or a Dev squad with a pair of Lascannons. You could have about double the firepower for the same points.

It has the Plasma cannon shot. Compared to a Tac squad with a PC, it has range and no gets hot. Take 4 in a Dev squad for about the same points.

So it can do any one of those jobs about half or a quarter as well as the generic version, for the same points. But it can only do one per round.

I wouldn't call that OP.


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Also, you can't shoot 500 points of CSM and not kill Guadians. CSM will destroy them seven ways to Sunday.

Last I checked I was saying that Guardians and the Fire Prism are decent to good, not OP.


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XvReaperXv wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Heldrakes are murder against the bikes at least.

Funny enough she gets salty as hell when I bring one lol.

It's an actual target for the Crimson Hunter! (I'm the only person at my FLGS who uses aircraft in any quantity, never had occasion to use it)

Bharring wrote:
I think we need to take another look at the Fire Prisim.

It has a mode of fire like a Battlecannon. Compare it to a LOT with a battle cannon. It's got better range, but both are long enough. It's got mobility and jink vs AV 14. It's got a small sidearm for small arms fire vs the LR options. Seems fair at that point....

Except that it's S5 vs S8. If you don't think that's huge, wtf. That is a huge tradeoff for viability.

It's got its Lance shot. BS4 not twinlinked. So about the same as a Las pred sans sponsons. For a lot more points. Or a Dev squad with a pair of Lascannons. You could have about double the firepower for the same points.

It has the Plasma cannon shot. Compared to a Tac squad with a PC, it has range and no gets hot. Take 4 in a Dev squad for about the same points.

So it can do any one of those jobs about half or a quarter as well as the generic version, for the same points. But it can only do one per round.

I wouldn't call that OP.


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Also, you can't shoot 500 points of CSM and not kill Guadians. CSM will destroy them seven ways to Sunday.

That's why no one complains about the Prism, they complain about the Wave Serpent

Which is nowhere as effective as it is. Sure, you have 2d6 S6 shots with Ignores cover. They also have no AP and imply sacrifying a great defensive tool. Its damage output is midling at best now in most of its configurations.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Which is nowhere as effective as it is. Sure, you have 2d6 S6 shots with Ignores cover. They also have no AP and imply sacrifying a great defensive tool. Its damage output is midling at best now in most of its configurations.

\

What? WHAT? It's a transport, man. Having 2d6 S6 shots on a freaking transport is awesome. Plus, guess what, give it up and you can still Jink!

 jreilly89 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Which is nowhere as effective as it is. Sure, you have 2d6 S6 shots with Ignores cover. They also have no AP and imply sacrifying a great defensive tool. Its damage output is midling at best now in most of its configurations.

\

What? WHAT? It's a transport, man. Having 2d6 S6 shots on a freaking transport is awesome. Plus, guess what, give it up and you can still Jink!

Although jinking kills all the firepower of the vehicle and the unit inside it.

Almost as good at getting 9 Grav shots on jinking troops?

It's some firepower, more than it should be, but not as fantastic as it sounds, for its points.

The Serpent compares reasonably to the Ghost Ark. Razorbacks don't do so well, unless it's Gladius, then they are OP.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Which is nowhere as effective as it is. Sure, you have 2d6 S6 shots with Ignores cover. They also have no AP and imply sacrifying a great defensive tool. Its damage output is midling at best now in most of its configurations.

\

What? WHAT? It's a transport, man. Having 2d6 S6 shots on a freaking transport is awesome. Plus, guess what, give it up and you can still Jink!

It's a 100+ points transport. It can cost more than the squad it carries even without upgrades. It contributing to the army's firepower shouldn't be so outlandish. And, guess what, jinking doesn't work after getting the pen through, which is what the serpent shield is for.
Did we need the nerf? Yes. Is the serpent bad? No, barring very little stuff, there's nothing bad in this codex. I'm just saying that the current ve serpent is nowhere as bad still think.