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Blue Horrors are 1-10 = 1 WC, 11-20 = 2 WC.

I haven't seen a screenshot of the Brimstone horrors, but I'm assuming they're S/T 1, 2W.

So assuming you take a standard unit of 11 horrors for 99 points, plus a herald with the double splits thing...
11 horrors => 44 blue horrors => 88 brimstone horrors. 143 wounds (231 if you're facing Dark Eldar who can't ID T1) and up to 44 warp charge... for 99 points.

Potential downside -> giving up kill points. Upsides -> so so many.

Anything worth picking up for a Daemons only army?

If rubric marines count as troops what does Ahriman ability do, allow rubric termies to be troops as well?

If not it seems redundant.

 Skerr wrote:
If rubric marines count as troops what does Ahriman ability do, allow rubric termies to be troops as well?

If not it seems redundant.

Rubric marines are only troops in a thousand sons detachment. Otherwise they are still elites.
Arhiman (and a tzeentch marked sorcerer warlord) makes them troops in any detachment

 Skerr wrote:
If rubric marines count as troops what does Ahriman ability do, allow rubric termies to be troops as well?

If not it seems redundant.

It is still possible to take Ahriman in a non-thousand sons detachment I guess?

the bearer needs to be in the unit for the extra splitting so 11 pink to 44 blue to 44 brimstone or 11 pink into 22 blue into 88 brimstone

Via frontlinegaming.org:
Lord of Flux: Enemy units within 12″ of your Warlord treat all terrain, even open ground, as difficult terrain. Additionally, any enemy units that run, trubo-boost, move flat out or charge within that radius must take dangerous terrain tests.

Magnus gets this automagically. So he's a flying 12" terrain feature that pew-pews everything in the psycic phase! Put him near some vulnerable units for the dangerous terrain test since Tsons cant overwatch.

BomBomHotdog wrote:
the bearer needs to be in the unit for the extra splitting so 11 pink to 44 blue to 44 brimstone or 11 pink into 22 blue into 88 brimstone

.

With the formation of wulfen (9 horrors or flamers or exalted flamers) the focus is to all units in 12 ums,

Here is what I have sitting here. What could do with it? I would love to make a fun and useful army (for local games, not for meta tourneys).

2 Lords of Change
2 Rhinos
2 Thousand Man Squads (10) w/Sorcerers
19 Screamers
40 Pink horrors
3 Flamers
1 Burning Chariot
1 Vindicator
1 Sorcerer
1 Ahriman
8 Thousand Sons with CC weapons and bolt pistols (Dont ask...)

I plan on getting some more stuff for it.

Red_Drake wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
If rubric marines count as troops what does Ahriman ability do, allow rubric termies to be troops as well?

If not it seems redundant.

Rubric marines are only troops in a thousand sons detachment. Otherwise they are still elites.
Arhiman (and a tzeentch marked sorcerer warlord) makes them troops in any detachment

Thanks.

 Whitebeard wrote:
8 Thousand Sons with CC weapons and bolt pistols (Dont ask...)

Why?

Am I correct in understanding that the only formation including Rubric marines is the War Cabal core choice including:

War cabal:
1 Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer
1-3 Rubric Marines
1-3 S O Termies
1-3 Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer


If this is the case then there's really no reason in having more than 3 units of Rubrics if you're aiming for the Grand Coven FBD, and want to be able to get the reroll saves of 1 on your Rubrics (and others)?

Will the wulfen formations be updated to include the new locis? If not that's fine, but if we can take the loci of creation in the warpflame host...

 Skerr wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
icon of flame
All boltguns, combi bolers, heavy bolters, bolt pisols and inferno weapons carried by models with Mark of Tz in unit equipped with icon of flame gain soul blaze. (page 26)

Can you clarify if the flamers have Soulblaze as an auto include. Frontline Gaming seemed to indicate that.

Also is there any adverse table that flamers have to roll in vs someones toughness that might increase or give them FnP? I read that on another forum and hoped that our flamers would not be subject to that.

Inferno/bolt weapons have no additional special rules unless the icon of flame is in the unit which then grants them soul blaze. Warpflame weapons (pistol, flamer & heavy flamer) come with warp flame sp. rule. If a unit suffered one or more unsaved wounds from any attack with warp flame the phase they must take a toughness test. If failed immediately suffers D3 wounds, no armor or cover saves allowed. If test is passed then unit gains 6+ FnP rest of game. or improves existing FnP...for Chaos is fickle.

 Whitebeard wrote:

2 Thousand Man Squads

Also that is a lot of men

VeteranNoob, What is the exact wording on the formation benefits for the formation with Kairos Fateweaver and 1-3 Lords of Change?
is it generic "models in this formation reroll" or is it a specific "the lords of change in this formation reroll"

Pic of Magnus page from the book on Age of Sigmar

Trasvi wrote:
Blue Horrors are 1-10 = 1 WC, 11-20 = 2 WC.

I haven't seen a screenshot of the Brimstone horrors, but I'm assuming they're S/T 1, 2W.

So assuming you take a standard unit of 11 horrors for 99 points, plus a herald with the double splits thing...
11 horrors => 44 blue horrors => 88 brimstone horrors. 143 wounds (231 if you're facing Dark Eldar who can't ID T1) and up to 44 warp charge... for 99 points.

Potential downside -> giving up kill points. Upsides -> so so many.

A couple issue with the math here. It's hard to judge how many WCs you can get because models that are Split MUST join a unit that is within 6" unless a unit is not in range, then and only then can you make a new unit. So at most, a unit of 11 horrors would only make 1 extra unit per turn, since they cannot move away unit their movement phase or with clever removing of casualties (which the attacking player has more control over anyway)
You have to "split" them over multiple turns in order to make that many new units. Also, You can't have all the WC at once. The 2WC from the original 11 Horrors goes away once the unit dies

The best case scenario for the Daemon play in the first turn is to have 3 Pinkes get killed while in a unit with the Loci, creating 12 Blues. Now they have 1WC from the remaining 8 Pinks and 2WC from the new unit of 12 Blues. That is only 1 more than they started with. Hardly game breaking. If you manage to kill a lot of Pinkies, than you make a single large unit of Blue. If you kill ALL the Pink in that turn, the unit of 22 Blues only generates 2 WC, just like the staring 11 Pinks

Even Killing Pinks in multiple phases will typically only creates 1 unit of Blues. For Example: You use Psychic Shriek to kill some, a new unit is made within 6".
In your shooting phase you kill some more Pinks. Guess what? the unit of Blues you created before is still within 6", so new models add to that unit.
Now you assault the Pinks. Unless the Daemon player can remove casualties in a way that makes the Pink & Blue units more than 6" away, they won't be able to create a new unit until YOUR new turn (with some exceptions like perils, dangerous terrain, etc).

The Split rule is pretty amazing, but it is not possible to make 90 pts unit into 250pts worth of units in the same turn, nor is it likely to produce all the Warp Charge, all the time.
At best, the Daemon player will have about 2-4 WC being produced for the "same" 90pt investment at any given turn. Not 44

-

Red_Drake wrote:
VeteranNoob, What is the exact wording on the formation benefits for the formation with Kairos Fateweaver and 1-3 Lords of Change?
is it generic "models in this formation reroll" or is it a specific "the lords of change in this formation reroll"

Kairos and the 1-3 LoC from this formation can reroll any rolls of 1 when making psychic tests, to hi or to wound rolls. Also, while all the models from this formation are on the battlefield you can choose to reroll any attempt to seize the initiative and any reserve rolls.
note: could see it both ways but I think the last rule is for the original number of LoC you took in the formation to all still be alive. So 1-3 LoC.

Still hoping one of the lucky folks who's got the book can let us know if the Tzaangors can be equipped with different weapons within the same unit, or if they all have to be identically equipped. I'm hoping I can mix and match!

Thanks!

angryboy2k wrote:
Still hoping one of the lucky folks who's got the book can let us know if the Tzaangors can be equipped with different weapons within the same unit, or if they all have to be identically equipped. I'm hoping I can mix and match!

Thanks!

Any Tzaangor may replace both close combat weapons for autopistol and chainsword at 1pt/model.

The detachment was just released and I saw no mention of anything for tzeentch daemons. Anyone know where that is in the book?

 VeteranNoob wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
Still hoping one of the lucky folks who's got the book can let us know if the Tzaangors can be equipped with different weapons within the same unit, or if they all have to be identically equipped. I'm hoping I can mix and match!

Thanks!

Any Tzaangor may replace both close combat weapons for autopistol and chainsword at 1pt/model.

Thanks, VeteranNoob! That's perfect! That means I can use some of the autopistols from the box to mod my Silver Tower Tzaangors, while keeping CC weapons for half the unit, masking the fact they're repeated poses.

So according the the wording on the Split rule, if you kill a unit of pink horrors in one go, they don't split, as there is no unit to place within 6" of at the end of the phase.

Special exception is given to RULES that completely remove the unit (assuming sweeping advance and posession, and perils result 1 fall under this), but not if the unit is entirely removed for any other reason

Additionally, any horrors killed BEFORE the point that the unit is removed entirely dont split as well, for the same reason.
If you kill all but one model in assault and they roll 12 on their instability test, you only get 2 blue horrors (as there was one model in the unit when the unit was removed) and the unit no longer exists to place the other blue horrors near to.

Does this mean the way to avoid the bs splitting is to kill the entire unit in one go? the OPPOSITE of the usual tactic which is "kill 1 model to drop them down 1 warp charge"


and amusingly, if they weren't immune to psychology, they would split when they ran off the board edge or were sweeping advanced

Would you not class "remove model from play if it has lost it's last wound" a rule?

Red_Drake wrote:
So according the the wording on the Split rule, if you kill a unit of pink horrors in one go, they don't split, as there is no unit to place within 6" of at the end of the phase.

Special exception is given to RULES that completely remove the unit (assuming sweeping advance and posession, and perils result 1 fall under this), but not if the unit is entirely removed for any other reason

I had this thought initially, but then I remembered that everything you do in 40K is governed by a "rule". So failing their saves and being removed as casualties is a "rule", though not a "special rule" as defined by the BRB. But the Split rule doesn't say "special rule", just "rule". If the Split rule said "special rule" you would be right.

However it doesn't so it appears that the only way to stop splitting is to cause the unit to fail an Instability test, specifically a failure that removes the whole unit (either double 6s or rolling high enough to kill every model left in the unit). All other "rules" will still allow them to split

-

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
icon of flame
All boltguns, combi bolers, heavy bolters, bolt pisols and inferno weapons carried by models with Mark of Tz in unit equipped with icon of flame gain soul blaze. (page 26)

Can you clarify if the flamers have Soulblaze as an auto include. Frontline Gaming seemed to indicate that.

Also is there any adverse table that flamers have to roll in vs someones toughness that might increase or give them FnP? I read that on another forum and hoped that our flamers would not be subject to that.

Inferno/bolt weapons have no additional special rules unless the icon of flame is in the unit which then grants them soul blaze. Warpflame weapons (pistol, flamer & heavy flamer) come with warp flame sp. rule. If a unit suffered one or more unsaved wounds from any attack with warp flame the phase they must take a toughness test. If failed immediately suffers D3 wounds, no armor or cover saves allowed. If test is passed then unit gains 6+ FnP rest of game. or improves existing FnP...for Chaos is fickle.

Bummer. I mean slight chance of it backfiring so I guess no to bad. do not have any xp using it.

Thanks VN

 mrhappyface wrote:
Would you not class "remove model from play if it has lost it's last wound" a rule?

right, but thats not a rule that removes the whole unit from the board (unless you consider the last model in the unit being removed as a "unit of 1", and even then, it would only allow "the unit" (read: the last model) to split instantly. the rest of the casualties would still be placed at the end of the phase, nearby the non-existant unit)


EDIT: whoops, forgot that instability was specifically excluded from letting a unit split when removed. I removed that bit from this post

I was just looking at the sprues for the Tzaangors and they seem to have shields, is there a specific entry stating they can take shields? Are the shields base wargear? Do they count as Close Combat Weapons?

They also have some pretty neat swords and axes, and also some miscellaneous weapons, great kit over all.

When a Pink dies you set up 2 blues at the end of that phase (so they can't act in that phase. If there is already a unit of blues within 6" of the dying pinks, the 2 models/pinks go there. Otherwise, even if the whole unit of pinks is destroyed, excluding demonic instability, the last pink to be removed from the table (so controlling picks which pink to pick up last) is the point where 6" of this last horror (still 2blues/pink) so that this new unit of blues is entirely within the 6" bubble, essentially, of that last pink. Same with brimmies

also: I put the pics up from the rules a few pages back so everyone can just see for themselves.

So should I be picking up a bunch of blue horrors and brimstone models?