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I know what it is and it's atcually only 2 units of possessed. I was asking what role they get in the Black Legion decurion. VetereanNoob didn't list it as far as I can see. Fluffwise it could be a core formation.

It sounds good, bUT this has a lot of hooking back up with your smoking hot but cazy as feth bunny boiler ex kind of feel. Going to need to know more.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
So to the guys and gals who have been long time chaos legion fans and gamers, what seems to be the general consensus on TL? Are yall happy with the outcome or did yas hope for something more?

Not primarily a chaos fan but hope this does well, GW have been dropping bomb after bomb for a while now, would hate to see the book fall short.

Well there is still a lot of room for improvement for the faction and some of the new rules are real headscratchers but all things considered I would say it's a big success.

Traitors legion is a great book but feels weird. It's not a codex yet is full of dataslates and feels like this is the content that should have been in the 7th Ed chaos codex should have been not an 8th edition book either. So does this mean chaos got a patch and won't be getting a new codex anytime soon because it's one of the oldest codex.

Goood, goooooooood, still hope to see new kits in the future, surely if the likes of Mortarion are coming back he will get his own Supplement ala Wrath of Magnus and DG will get new goodies, hope so anyway.

Any idea on what the chances are of EC and DG getting the TS treatment soon? If Noise Marine had some updated models I would fall off my chair rushing to grab them before anyone else!

 Alpha wrote:
Any idea on what the chances are of EC and DG getting the TS treatment soon? If Noise Marine had some updated models I would fall off my chair rushing to grab them before anyone else!

From everything I have heard, this is the year for Tzeentch. We will be waiting until afterwards for anything else.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
So to the guys and gals who have been long time chaos legion fans and gamers, what seems to be the general consensus on TL? Are yall happy with the outcome or did yas hope for something more?

Not primarily a chaos fan but hope this does well, GW have been dropping bomb after bomb for a while now, would hate to see the book fall short.

Concencus is mostly positive. Everyone seems to only have minor gripes.

 Alpha wrote:
Any idea on what the chances are of EC and DG getting the TS treatment soon? If Noise Marine had some updated models I would fall off my chair rushing to grab them before anyone else!

Especially if we got back the 2nd ed style noise marines.

 Roknar wrote:
I just noticed there's a formation missing for Black Legion. The tormented. Does anybody know what it is? Considering BL have a ton of possessed it could be a neat core formation. It is part of the supplement according to the description.

Where is our lord and saviour VeteranNoob?

Painting, sharing the book with 30 very excited gamers and somehow winning my first BloodBowl game of the league 4-1 with my Norse.
The BL section doesn't have a formation called The Tormented. Not sure what to tell you.

A lot of questions have resolved themselves I think and various versions of this are floating around. Maybe Frontline put out their review today as well. I'll help where I can if asked. BTW, 100% glorious reception of this book today at the shop. Many guys dusting off some armies.

Just comparing the reception of WoM and TL to Black Legion...

...It just doesn't even come close.

If I get this right, Black Legion Speartip gives all deep-striking units the ability to come in turn one on a roll of 3+. It consists of:

- A Black Legion Warband, which has 1 - 3 units of Terminators.
- An Auxiliary, which can consist of a Terminator Annihilation Force with 3 - 5 units.
- Optionally, Bringers of Despair, which consists of Abaddon and a squad of Terminators with WS 5 and BS 5.
- Optionally, Cyclopian Cabal, which can be 3 - 5 Terminator Sorcerers.

That's 4 - 10 squads of Terminators deep striking on turn one on a roll of 3+, and Abaddon's squad is guaranteed to arrive.

Am I reading this right? I am thinking a combination of Heavy Flamers, Psychic abilities, and Last Memory of Yuranthos wrecks most opponents on turn 1. Then you get to assault with Abaddon on turn 2.

There's also the Command Choice that consists of 1-4 Terminator Sorcerers/Lords and 1-4 Terminators.

Huh? Is that a typo on GW's behalf then or is it somewhere else in the book?
Also, could you confirm that the Black Legion deepstrike only works for models in the detachment? I know I'm fishing here but I'd really like to use that with forgeworld XD

Also grats on winning your bloodbowl game ^^

They probably left it out because it's just so similar to the other Possessed formation they didn't think it was worth reprinting or including.

If Death Guard gets the same treatment as Thousand Sons, I'll be starting a new army in the new year.

 techsoldaten wrote:
If I get this right, Black Legion Speartip gives all deep-striking units the ability to come in turn one on a roll of 3+. It consists of:

- A Black Legion Warband, which has 1 - 3 units of Terminators.
- An Auxiliary, which can consist of a Terminator Annihilation Force with 3 - 5 units.
- Optionally, Bringers of Despair, which consists of Abaddon and a squad of Terminators with WS 5 and BS 5.
- Optionally, Cyclopian Cabal, which can be 3 - 5 Terminator Sorcerers.

That's 4 - 10 squads of Terminators deep striking on turn one on a roll of 3+, and Abaddon's squad is guaranteed to arrive.

Am I reading this right? I am thinking a combination of Heavy Flamers, Psychic abilities, and Last Memory of Yuranthos wrecks most opponents on turn 1. Then you get to assault with Abaddon on turn 2.

It also works with dreadclaws, the raptor talon, the heldrake terror pack and the cult of destruction. Not sure how to get the warpsmith in range mind you.
Daemon Princes too, but they come down swooping. It's possible to null deploy in terms of units. Not sure yet if that makes a viable army.
You can also put the dimensional key on the raptor talon lord and charge turn 1 to activate it.

Is the death guard formation Typhus only, or can you use a chaos lord in his place?
And can the terminator annihilation force be taken by any legion, or jut black legion?

 Roknar wrote:
Huh? Is that a typo on GW's behalf then or is it somewhere else in the book?
Also, could you confirm that the Black Legion deepstrike only works for models in the detachment? I know I'm fishing here but I'd really like to use that with forgeworld XD

Also grats on winning your bloodbowl game ^^

What's your question?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
They probably left it out because it's just so similar to the other Possessed formation they didn't think it was worth reprinting or including.

That's the thing, they didn't leave it out. It's in the list of formations on the website. But if they didn't give the black legion formation to black legion then...uuuhh..wut?
I prefer it to the favoured of chaos. Hatred (now), WS5, I5 and rending is pretty good, at that point any result is gravy. With shred they can almost reliably kill a wraithknight, unmarked.
Still you want to avoid TEQ and knights, but they stand a chance at least.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
There's also the Command Choice that consists of 1-4 Terminator Sorcerers/Lords and 1-4 Terminators.

Then this might actually be the most important formation in the game, at least with regards to objectives. I would argue it's more important than Emperor's Children or Death Guard.

Turn one, a bunch of Terminators come in and mow down opponents with Heavy Flamers. A Sorcerer pulls off Last Memory of Yuranthos and they wipe out whoever is in the backfield. Doesn't matter if it's Eldar or Orks, a lot of things die very quickly.

Turn two, Abaddon assaults with his WS5 and BS6 Terminators. They wipe out the most valuable unit they face while the other Terminators tie up transports and their occupants. That Cyclopedan Cabal uses Shroud of Deceit on, say, a scatterbike squad and gets it to gun down the other one.

Turns three through five, the opponent is entirely tied up with MSU Terminators. A few BL squads are killed off, sure, but they successfully tied up their opponents most of the game. Since they are troops, they are denying ObjSec on all the objectives they happen to be standing by.

While all this is happening, some 10 man Cultist squads seize all of the objectives on the board. Now we are rolling off to see if the game continues, and the opponent has not made it off their own table edge.

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Huh? Is that a typo on GW's behalf then or is it somewhere else in the book?
Also, could you confirm that the Black Legion deepstrike only works for models in the detachment? I know I'm fishing here but I'd really like to use that with forgeworld XD

Also grats on winning your bloodbowl game ^^

What's your question?

Two questions.
1. The website description says the book has the following formations:
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband

That is (was) a black legion formation. You say it's not a part of the Black Legion detachment. Seems weird, but ok.
But in that case, I'm wondering where it is in the book? Did it become a generic CSM formation instead?

2. Command benefits for detachments usually go something like this:
... units or models in this detachment gain...
Does the Black Legion first turn deepstriking also work on units in the detachment?
Or does it say, if this is your primary detachment, deepstriking units may deepstrike on turn 1...

Because that would allow units in your entire army to deepstrike turn one so long as your primary detachment is of the black legion.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
So to the guys and gals who have been long time chaos legion fans and gamers, what seems to be the general consensus on TL? Are yall happy with the outcome or did yas hope for something more?

Not primarily a chaos fan but hope this does well, GW have been dropping bomb after bomb for a while now, would hate to see the book fall short.

Well it's got me interested in playing 40k again. While I'm still hoping for an Age of Sigmar style reboot for 40k, this seems like a good hold over. I just can't be bothered with the rules on top of rules on top of special formation rules that is the bloated mess of 7th edition. But this codex is enough to get me to dip my toes in the water by being able to build an actual legion army.

I just got bored of chaos lord plus plaguemarines, plus some variation of heavy support options. It's not a power level thing, I'm just really particular about playing Death Guard with a cohesive theme, and not having true legion options beyond plaguemarines for the last 3 editions is just boring and not fun to play. So this codex helps that, but I now have to bother to learn 7th edition to some degree. Since I play maybe once a year as is, the rules bloat is just a huge barrier to playing, and it's something GW needs to rectify with 8th edition if I'll consider sticking with 40k over just playing the Specialist Games primarily like I have been for the last 4-5 years.

But as someone whose played 40k since 2nd edition, this is the first time Chaos Space Marines has at least felt like a real army in a long time. These are actual legions, and not spikey renegadez and fwiends.

 Roknar wrote:

2. Command benefits for detachments usually go something like this:
... units or models in this detachment gain...
Does the Black Legion first turn deepstriking also work on units in the detachment?
Or does it say, if this is your primary detachment, deepstriking units may deepstrike on turn 1...

Because that would allow units in your entire army to deepstrike turn one so long as your primary detachment is of the black legion.

I think it applies to the Black Legion Speartip detachment, which consists of a lot of other... detachments? Not even sure what to call them.

I might be wrong, but I think some people here are forgetting that troops don't have objective secured. That's only gained by troops in a CAD or some formations. Just as a PSA, since I occasionally find myself thinking troops gets obsec.

The black Legion decurion has no objective secured units at all. It's using the Black Legion warband rather than the traitor's hate Chaos warband. BL get pseudo preferred enemy instead of Obsec. That's a HUGE difference to other legions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Spoiler:

 Roknar wrote:

2. Command benefits for detachments usually go something like this:
... units or models in this detachment gain...
Does the Black Legion first turn deepstriking also work on units in the detachment?
Or does it say, if this is your primary detachment, deepstriking units may deepstrike on turn 1...

Because that would allow units in your entire army to deepstrike turn one so long as your primary detachment is of the black legion.

I think it applies to the Black Legion Speartip detachment, which consists of a lot of other... detachments? Not even sure what to call them.

The speartip consists of other formations, just like Traitor's hate. And I'm 99% certain that its command benefit only affects units in the speartip, but it actually has to say that.
If there's any chance at all that it applies to units in your army I HAVE to ask lol. That would allow deepstriking walkers and fire raptors and all kinds of other awesomeness on turn 1.

 Roknar wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Huh? Is that a typo on GW's behalf then or is it somewhere else in the book?
Also, could you confirm that the Black Legion deepstrike only works for models in the detachment? I know I'm fishing here but I'd really like to use that with forgeworld XD

Also grats on winning your bloodbowl game ^^

What's your question?

Two questions.
1. The website description says the book has the following formations:
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband
--------THIS IS INTERESTING. THE TORMENTED IS ON PAGE 62 (SAYS BL PAGE 74) YET IT IS NOT IN THEIR LIST. SO APPEARS TO BE AN ERROR THEY NEED TO FIX. CLEARLY STATES IT'S BL YET NOT HERE, NOT EVEN A FORMATION ON PAGE 62 WHICH COULD BE A TYPO. THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED SOON. MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING. UNLESS THEY WANT YOU TO USE IT IN A CAD? SEEMS LIKE A TYPO TO ME.
That is (was) a black legion formation. You say it's not a part of the Black Legion detachment. Seems weird, but ok.
But in that case, I'm wondering where it is in the book? Did it become a generic CSM formation instead?

2. Command benefits for detachments usually go something like this:
... units or models in this detachment gain...
Does the Black Legion first turn deepstriking also work on units in the detachment?
Or does it say, if this is your primary detachment, deepstriking units may deepstrike on turn 1...
-------THE BL SPEARTIP (THE GRAND COVEN, PRIMARY DETACHMENT THINGY) GIVES :"THE UNITS THAT ARE PART OF IT[BL SPEARTIP PRIMARY DETACHMENT] HAVE THE TIP OF THE SPEAR, HERALDS OF THE BLACK CRUSADE AND SPEARTIP STRIKE COMMAND BENEFITS, WHILST THOSE THAT ARE PART OF THE CAD (THE EXAMPLE EVERY LEGION HAS WHEN THEY SAY "SALLY HAS X MODELS IN HER COLLECTION AND ORGANIZES THEM INTO A PRIMARY DETACHMENT AND LEFTOVERS IN CAD TO GET OBJECTIVE SECURE AND BE A BATTLE-FORGED ARMY) AHVE THE OBJECTIVE SECURED COMMAND BENEFITS. .... SO, THE PRIMARY SPEARTIP STRIKE BENEFIT IS "ANY UNITS IN THE SPEARTIPW/DS CAN MAKE A RESERVE ROLL TO SEE IF THEY ARRIVE FROM DS RESERVE ON THE FIRST TUEN, REQUIRING A ROLL OF 3+ TO BE SUCCESSFUL. IN ADDITION, IF THIS DETACHMENT IS YOUR PRIMARY DETACHMENT AND YOUR WARLORD HAS THE DS SPECIAL RULE, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO AUTOMATICALLY PASS HIS UNIT'S RESERVE ROLL TO ARRIVE ON THE FIRST TURN." DOES THAT HELP?

Because that would allow units in your entire army to deepstrike turn one so long as your primary detachment is of the black legion.

gotcha. In-line above. sorry for CAPS but that seemed to be the easiest way for the quote function not to feth this up again apologies if your eyes are offended


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roknar wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think some people here are forgetting that troops don't have objective secured. That's only gained by troops in a CAD or some formations. Just as a PSA, since I occasionally find myself thinking troops gets obsec.

The black Legion decurion has no objective secured units at all. It's using the Black Legion warband rather than the traitor's hate Chaos warband. BL get pseudo preferred enemy instead of Obsec. That's a HUGE difference to other legions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Spoiler:

 Roknar wrote:

2. Command benefits for detachments usually go something like this:
... units or models in this detachment gain...
Does the Black Legion first turn deepstriking also work on units in the detachment?
Or does it say, if this is your primary detachment, deepstriking units may deepstrike on turn 1...

Because that would allow units in your entire army to deepstrike turn one so long as your primary detachment is of the black legion.

I think it applies to the Black Legion Speartip detachment, which consists of a lot of other... detachments? Not even sure what to call them.

The speartip consists of other formations, just like Traitor's hate. And I'm 99% certain that its command benefit only affects units in the speartip, but it actually has to say that.
If there's any chance at all that it applies to units in your army I HAVE to ask lol. That would allow deepstriking walkers and fire raptors and all kinds of other awesomeness on turn 1.

true, like Wrath of Magnus was actually a good release a week before so we can see how they want this to work with the 9 Legions. Replace Grand Coven with your legion. In this case, Speartip (aptly named, of course). You could, depending on your collection, legion and game size (might be fun to try this in Apocalypse!) multiple Speartips and meet alllllllllllll these requirements but the one your warlord (Abby if he's in there is your primary detachment and any extra rules referring to primary apply). Who knows, someone may have multiple but with TS at least, it's so damned expensive (in real money and game points) I can't imagine having a second Grand Coven yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:This release is looking pretty amazing. People are finally getting the customization they have been wanting for what feels like 10 years.

I'm hoping this means that an updated CSM codex is eminent, since all of these released build on it.

Honestly, if I could send pics of pages I would. Last week, even though it was late Thursday, I probably shouldn't have sent those demon formation pics but once everyone saw the page and realized it said what it said, helped a lot. 6 days seeeeeems so far, but we got this. I know, I have the books and, right, "easy for me to say!" but it's worth the wait.

Those alpha legion rules really make me degree going TS, I love the idea of infiltrating 90% of my army into the best positions and dominating the game for the first few turns. 5 man plasma chosen assassinating or crippling key enemy warlords or deathstars, melta chosen nuking armoured targets and 20 man csm squads appirating onto objectives like giant mobs of James bond clones XD.

Night lords are also awesome! But I really think the alpha legion are my favorite.....who knows maybe I'll have to push back even more admech projects to spawn a few hydras...

 The Deathless Host wrote:
Those alpha legion rules really make me degree going TS, I love the idea of infiltrating 90% of my army into the best positions and dominating the game for the first few turns. 5 man plasma chosen assassinating or crippling key enemy warlords or deathstars, melta chosen nuking armoured targets and 20 man csm squads appirating onto objectives like giant mobs of James bond clones XD.

Night lords are also awesome! But I really think the alpha legion are my favorite.....who knows maybe I'll have to push back even more admech projects to spawn a few hydras...

As an aside, the new citadel tint set (I need this!) works bonkers for Alpha Legion and TS, 30K or 40K, FW or GW metallics. I'm going to buy a squad of AL just to paint with that set. Tint plus leadbelcher = what I couldn't get over so many attempts.

Wow lol you went above and beyond to answer me hah. That cleared things up thanks a lot!
I hope they clear up the tormented thing as quickly as they released a faq for wrath of magnus. Maybe it's just a misprint in the review copies. That adds some mystery to the release lol

It's weird, but glad someone noticed that. Thing is, I don't know if it would be a core or command. Seems like command. but, well, 50/50.