Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.

Does this mean that TS and SW get their 30k rules? TS are my favorite legion.

Those will be coming early next year (February) unless it gets delayed again for the Nth time, as the books only recently went to print.

Power Elephant wrote:
Does this mean that TS and SW get their 30k rules? TS are my favorite legion.

Well, Forgeworld is releasing the Russ model, it only seems fair that he would get rules to accompany him and his legion. I wouldn't put money on it, but it will probably happen soon. It is sort of funny, Rogal Dorn has rules but no model, Russ has a model but no rules.

Man, those cleaned up Space Wolves are making it a little hard to commit to what Legion I am going to make. I still think I will go with Imperial Fists, but every once and a while I think I want to make some Wolves instead. I could add on a few wolfy details, but not a lot.

Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch

We know next to nothing about the Custodes or Sisters of Silence beyond the dubious stuff from 4chan.

NivlacSupreme wrote:Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch

Why would a Primarch have Costodes for honour guard? Or you mean just the minis will be honour guard but part of the Legion?

Davor wrote:

NivlacSupreme wrote:Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch

Why would a Primarch have Costodes for honour guard? Or you mean just the minis will be honour guard but part of the Legion?

Truth be told, it's your army, your fluff. I'm planning to make Iron Warriors (kinda hard to decide ) out of those MK IIIs, but I'll use 40k Space Marines - Iron Hands rules for them. I don't like my marines heretical

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Davor wrote:

NivlacSupreme wrote:Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch

Why would a Primarch have Costodes for honour guard? Or you mean just the minis will be honour guard but part of the Legion?

Truth be told, it's your army, your fluff. I'm planning to make Iron Warriors (kinda hard to decide ) out of those MK IIIs, but I'll use 40k Space Marines - Iron Hands rules for them. I don't like my marines heretical

Yes I know that. I fully believe in My minis, My time, My money I can do what ever I want. I thought fluff wise it can't be done and I am asking just in case I was wrong in that regard. If you can't do it fluff wise, I would say go ahead and do it anyways. Rule of cool and all.

My army is fluffy except from the 20 custodes running around. I like them better than the terminator bodyguards

If your primarch is Lorgar you could have custodes as a dishonour guard.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
If your primarch is Lorgar you could have custodes as a dishonour guard.

Strange how I, from the U.K., spell it honor while you, from the US, spell it honour

NivlacSupreme wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
If your primarch is Lorgar you could have custodes as a dishonour guard.

Strange how I, from the U.K., spell it honor while you, from the US, spell it honour

That extra “u” is insidious. I found myself slipping it in when building my honor guard myself.

Like the taint of Chaos

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing how good Space Wolves can look when they're clean. You can see an army of grey warriors, each an exceptional fighter, as being very intimidating - the Emperor's attack dog, ready to do anything to please their master.

Meanwhile, in regular GW Land we get Wolfy McWolfawolf, the Wolf of Castle Peltclaw, etc. etc.

I think my ultimate idea of Space Wolf models is mostly clean but with some engraved nordic style knotwork in places and maybe some *small* details like a wolf tooth necklace or some models have a wolf fur cape or loincloth.

The 40k ones are just too busy and when you have too much detail nothing at all stands out, it just looks like a mess.

 Zywus wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
It seems to be a common misconception that certain legions were limited to particular armour marks. There's nothing wrong with going for a theme or preferring one mark over the other. But you really shouldn't feel like you have to use a specific mark because of your legion choice.

This.

It bothers me quite a bit to see that misconception. It's a form of flanderization in a way. Not as bad as in 40K with it's special-snowflake lists (apparently every single White Scar marine is welded onto a bike or land speeder even though over half of the chapter consist of tactical marines).


If anything, it would be somewhat notable for a marine force of some size around the time of the heresy to be totally uniformly armoured. Unless it's something like a newly raised company all equipped at the same time from the same shipment.

What I think it really boils down to is that Marks of armor are one of the distinguishing characteristics from army to army. That makes it a thematic device to define your army and so long as you're aware of that and use it purposefully it should only matter to you.

When it comes to different marks of armor its mostly a case of preference of the Legion, the timing within the Heresy, and the fluff behind your force. Some Legion did have preferred patterns of armor that were in disproportionate use and only adopted a greater mix as the heresy progressed. Greater uniformity is a distinctive quality of this era though how far you take that is upto you. In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.

Let's use the Raven Guard as an example... by the current point of the Heresy, there are the survivors of Istavaan, there were the homeworld guarding marines, there were the Terran marines who survived their suicide mission and decided to do their own thing, there were the neophytes on their homeworld that end up being quickly elevated to marines to re bolster the ravenguard ranks, and there are the Raptors rapid grown from genetech given to Corax by the emperor... when you think about it each one of these groups would likely have a different mix, balance, and composition armor patterns and you can narrate who they are with it. The Istavaan survivors could have armor that mixed from scavenged pieces if it's during or shortly after that or if it's even later a mix of MkIV and MkV to show that they've been requipped. Meanwhile those older Terrain Raven Guard would almost exclusively be using the older patterns of armor. And so on.

Pay day just came


Prospero gonna burn.

 Azazelx wrote:
Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.

Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?

Davor wrote:
[]

Yes I know that. I fully believe in My minis, My time, My money I can do what ever I want. I thought fluff wise it can't be done and I am asking just in case I was wrong in that regard. If you can't do it fluff wise, I would say go ahead and do it anyways. Rule of cool and all.

You forgot your fluff. It's your to do what you want. Ergo couple special characters have bit the dust in my groups universe.

Not hard to contrive a reason to have Custodes on the battlefield, and once they're there, where better for them to be than fighting alongside a primarch? Seems fine really.

I've found myself with more money at this point in the month than I'd normally have (pimpin' ain't easy) so I might have to take the plunge on this. I'll be saving it for the wife/kids to "give me for christmas", though, if I do.

NivlacSupreme wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
If your primarch is Lorgar you could have custodes as a dishonour guard.

Strange how I, from the U.K., spell it honor while you, from the US, spell it honour

I only include the 'u' when discussing 40k. True story.

In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.

Where on earth did you get this idea? Why would a squad ever be equipped the same, unless it was just recently raised and every member was brand new, or everyone in it happened to be re-equipped at the same time and no one had suffered any battle damage since?

I would say based on simple logic that the norm would be for every unit down to the squad level to have a mix of armor styles. All it takes to end up with a mix is a few more experienced marines who retained older marks, or marines who suffered battle damage and had field repairs done with a mix of available armor that fit. I'd say that would be incredibly common in any situation. A whole squad with identical armor would be the exception, unless there was a reason to go out of your way to use a certain mark (say Mk III for breachers) and that would require additional effort on the part of the armorers.

Look at any picture of any military unit from any point in history, and where multiple patterns of an item are available, you are likely to see a mix within that group. That goes for fresh units, veterans, and anything in between. It's a logistics issue and it wouldn't get any better being light years from a forge world.

Plenty of room for either way. There's lots of reasons a squad or even a whole army could be mono armour mark, likewise for mixed.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If the next game was Emperor, Sanguinius and Horus I'd buy it, even if the gameplay was just a straight copy of the White Dwarf Horus vs Emprah on the battle barge game. Especially as me and my brother played that more times than any other GW game - it was amazing fun!

That's what they need to do with their next boxed set - say, set aboard Horus's ship above Terra, with the Emperor and his favored sons against Horus and the traitor primarchs (Ala Assassination Force). So, one of each primarch, Emperor and Horus and 10-15 regular marines?

Make the ship tiles compatible with Space Hulk (but Chaosfied) and include rules for the models in the other boxed sets (but not the minis) and I'll bet everyone will lose their mind trying to get a copy ("You can use Calth, Prospero AND Deathwatch figures? Reserve my copy now!!!).

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.

Where on earth did you get this idea? Why would a squad ever be equipped the same, unless it was just recently raised and every member was brand new, or everyone in it happened to be re-equipped at the same time and no one had suffered any battle damage since?

I would say based on simple logic that the norm would be for every unit down to the squad level to have a mix of armor styles. All it takes to end up with a mix is a few more experienced marines who retained older marks, or marines who suffered battle damage and had field repairs done with a mix of available armor that fit. I'd say that would be incredibly common in any situation. A whole squad with identical armor would be the exception, unless there was a reason to go out of your way to use a certain mark (say Mk III for breachers) and that would require additional effort on the part of the armorers.

Look at any picture of any military unit from any point in history, and where multiple patterns of an item are available, you are likely to see a mix within that group. That goes for fresh units, veterans, and anything in between. It's a logistics issue and it wouldn't get any better being light years from a forge world.

Although it should be said we're talking about a wargame with a strong visual component, so that squads containing too many marks of armors in the same unit will lack cohesiveness and visual appeal. It's good to have some level of consistency and a plan.

Personally I use Mk.4 for my basic WE, but Mk.2 on my sergeants to indicate that my company has a lot of newer marines being led by grizzled veterans.

 Stormonu wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If the next game was Emperor, Sanguinius and Horus I'd buy it, even if the gameplay was just a straight copy of the White Dwarf Horus vs Emprah on the battle barge game. Especially as me and my brother played that more times than any other GW game - it was amazing fun!

That's what they need to do with their next boxed set - say, set aboard Horus's ship above Terra, with the Emperor and his favored sons against Horus and the traitor primarchs (Ala Assassination Force). So, one of each primarch, Emperor and Horus and 10-15 regular marines?

Make the ship tiles compatible with Space Hulk (but Chaosfied) and include rules for the models in the other boxed sets (but not the minis) and I'll bet everyone will lose their mind trying to get a copy ("You can use Calth, Prospero AND Deathwatch figures? Reserve my copy now!!!).

Horus, Sanguinius, Emprah, lots of daemons, handful of Sons of Horus veterans, handful of Blood Angels veterans, handful of Custodes. Hnnnnng




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The armor marks thing I think is basically a matter of taste, by the way. There are plenty of in-universe justifications for doing monomark squads and for doing mixed squads. You do you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

Personally I use Mk.4 for my basic WE, but Mk.2 on my sergeants to indicate that my company has a lot of newer marines being led by grizzled veterans.

Great example of doing it right

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing how good Space Wolves can look when they're clean. You can see an army of grey warriors, each an exceptional fighter, as being very intimidating - the Emperor's attack dog, ready to do anything to please their master.

Meanwhile, in regular GW Land we get Wolfy McWolfawolf, the Wolf of Castle Peltclaw, etc. etc.

I agree too. I like the occasional runes or wolf pelt cloak, but the viking/wolf theme of the Space Wolves is so much more effective and beautiful when it is used with restraint.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.

Where on earth did you get this idea? Why would a squad ever be equipped the same, unless it was just recently raised and every member was brand new, or everyone in it happened to be re-equipped at the same time and no one had suffered any battle damage since?

I would say based on simple logic that the norm would be for every unit down to the squad level to have a mix of armor styles. All it takes to end up with a mix is a few more experienced marines who retained older marks, or marines who suffered battle damage and had field repairs done with a mix of available armor that fit. I'd say that would be incredibly common in any situation. A whole squad with identical armor would be the exception, unless there was a reason to go out of your way to use a certain mark (say Mk III for breachers) and that would require additional effort on the part of the armorers.

Look at any picture of any military unit from any point in history, and where multiple patterns of an item are available, you are likely to see a mix within that group. That goes for fresh units, veterans, and anything in between. It's a logistics issue and it wouldn't get any better being light years from a forge world.

It really depends on whether you are doing an early-Heresy or late-Heresy style force. Some Legions preferred certain armour marks over others. This, combined with logistics not being an issue before the outbreak of the Heresy, led to legions almost entirely equipped with a single mark. The Iron Hands for example used MkIII almost exclusively, because MkII was not very well suited for their style of warfare and MkIV was not available in significant numbers because Horus and Kelbor Hal redirected most of that to the traitor legions. This also goes for a lot of other Legions. An early-Heresy force should be much more uniform than a late-Heresy force. And even by the late Heresy uniformly equipped squads would be very common. Forgeworlds have massive production outputs. If a legion gets a new supply of power armour, it is not going to be just a few suits, it is going to be hundreds or thousands at least. More than enough to outfit entire new squads with the same equipment. Of course the exception here would be the shattered legions and groups detached from the main legion that may not be able to get the necessary supplies.
Whether you want uniform or mixed squads, it does not matter. There is plenty of justification and examples in the fluff for either.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.

Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?

Somewhat, yes. Early-RT-era none of the original chapters were really fleshed out or were much more than a colour scheme and a logo. 40k's Space Wolves are still humanitarians that care about the little guys as far as I can tell. When if their smallest piece of equipment now has Nordic runes etched into it with a wolf skull bolted on. Russ' original guys were a bunch of Richards and somehow that's evolved into the Wolves becoming the "nice" chapter over the last 10k.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.

Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?

I don't recall a lot about the space wolves being huge humanitarians around 2nd ed. The first thing I remember hearing regarding that, was that Logan Grimnar was pissed that the Grey knights kept killing entire populations where there had been a chaos incursion. I don't remember them being any more or less kind than various other chapters.

The figures released around the end of 1st ed, and the codex in 2nd ed had 'some' viking stuff. there was a few with helmets off and some wild(ish) hair styles. The Dark/Blood angels all had stuff that characterized them at this time as well, so I didn't think the Space wolves were all that different.


The funny thing is that when I was in high school/college and I played 40k, I loved SW, but when I came back to the game in my late 20's, they didn't really appeal to me as much. Maybe it was their new styling as the 'wild vikings', but, I lost my interest in them. I stopped collecting them after the 5th ed codex, and focused more on CSM. After that the 'Santa Claws' era hit, and I didn't really dig them anymore.

Now in my late 30's early 40's, I'm all about the salamanders. I like their cool armor and obsession with heat based weaponry and hammers.

These new playsets that GW has been making are really cool. I'm blown away how willing they've become to delve into their own lore and produce stuff for 40k based on it. I stopped playing 40k for years, but when things like adeptus mechanicus, knights, and harliquin codexs started to become a reality, I started to pay more attention. I always said, If they do a genestealer cult codex, I'M BACK IN!

and well...

 Azazelx wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.

Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?

Somewhat, yes. Early-RT-era none of the original chapters were really fleshed out or were much more than a colour scheme and a logo. 40k's Space Wolves are still humanitarians that care about the little guys as far as I can tell. When if their smallest piece of equipment now has Nordic runes etched into it with a wolf skull bolted on. Russ' original guys were a bunch of Richards and somehow that's evolved into the Wolves becoming the "nice" chapter over the last 10k.

It is though oddly appropriate to represent the slow but inevitable decline of the whole imperium including the space wolves back towards superstition and ignorance during the subsequent 10,000 years. (and GW in the subsequent past 10 years until recently)

Hmmm, pre-orders in two days and not really a lot of good leaks. I know there was a completed Custodes with a comparison to a Tactical Marine on Atia's blog, but no completed Sister with a size comparison. I really hope they didn't mess up and make the Sisters the size of Marines. They are still normal humans, not 7 ft tall monstrosities.