Horus Heresy - Burning of Prospero (GW) - SoS 30k rules in upcoming Dec WD

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**Neronoxx**

Yodhrin wrote:

Is this Custodes nonsense on that scale? No, but an extreme example seems to be the only way to get some people to grasp the concept - the limits are as much a part of the IP as everything else, and they do matter.

You know what really matters? Having fun. Nothing stopped 'bobby' from converting his sigmarines into custodes and playing a whole force of them before. What has changed? Now they have models and official rules, suddenly you expect GW to be held to a standard that wasn't there from the beginning? That kind of sentiment is flawed on the basis that an entire judgement has been created on a set of conceptual limitations that no one has ever stated or enforced.
Shut up and play with your toy soldiers.

**H.B.M.C.**

Yodhrin wrote:
GW did Sisters and Custodes rules which were Unbound on the basis they're not common in 40K...

Yeah, this is one of those [citation needed] situations Yod. It's either that or I get out old man Occam's trusty cut-throat.

Yodhrin wrote:
... and a few people expressed positive sentiments that they were putting the IP above the chance to score a few extra sales. Then they decided actually, they want those extra sales and put out "proper" 40K rules.

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

Or, to put it another way, given GW's history with rules writing it is far more likely that when they put out the originao 40K SoS and Custodes rules they did not realise that the way they had presented them made them Unbound only. Again, that big blade of old man Occam's really comes in handy here.

**casvalremdeikun**

The thing with Sisters of Silence is that we don't actually know what happened to them. We don't know if they were wiped out or something. The only thing we know about what happened to them is that we don't know what happened to them.

**TwilightSparkles**

Let's consider this: it's thr metaphorical ten minutes to midnight in 40k. And the Imperium is , according to some peoples logic, telling it's force of elite super marines and ultra secret anti psykers"no you guys just stay guarding Terra"..... Yes this move benefits GW.

That's because they listened to their customers who want to use their product and acted.

**Azazelx**

Some people just enjoy being bitter and complaining.

**angryboy2k**

I've got to say it: GW is doing some great stuff these days.
The sheer variety and quantity of good models in this box made me get two - one to split with friends and the other I'm not even sure of yet. This is AFTER I've already quit 40K and been selling off all things GW in my home.

I'm really looking forward to my boxes arriving.

**Lord Damocles**

Yodhrin wrote:
GW did Sisters and Custodes rules which were Unbound on the basis they're not common in 40K, and a few people expressed positive sentiments that they were putting the IP above the chance to score a few extra sales. Then they decided actually, they want those extra sales and put out "proper" 40K rules.

If 'not common' equated to Unbound armies, then unique models - and particularly special characters - shouldn't be allowed in Battleforged armies either.

Having formations for Sisters and Custodes does nothing to make them more or less common - you can have a Battleforged formation of either which includes fewer models than a single Unbound squad does.

**ERJAK**

Yodhrin wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
What?

GW did Sisters and Custodes rules which were Unbound on the basis they're not common in 40K, and a few people expressed positive sentiments that they were putting the IP above the chance to score a few extra sales. Then they decided actually, they want those extra sales and put out "proper" 40K rules.

Mymearan wrote:
That must be a record - GW responding to overwhelming feedback within two days giving people exactly what they wanted, and Yodhrin finding a way to complain about it anyway!

Ah yes, I forgot you speak for all gamers everywhere, and so anything you personally like is also supported by "overwhelming" numbers.

Nevelon wrote:
To be fair, the battles we play on the table are the exception, not the rule, for combat in the universe. Unless your local meta is 95% guards and orks. How many fights can a named chapter master be in? He’s just one guy in a vast universe.

It makes just about as much sense for a small unit of SoS/custodes to be sent on a critical, secret, mission then it does for abbadon to fight the farsight enclaves.

Yeah, see, that excuse works for a special scenario, or an event game, not the provision of rules that let you use something anytime, anywhere. Or else you have yourself a Star Trek Online situation.

Can you conceive of a story that would see a Constitution-class ship, a Wells timeship, a Ferengi cruiser, and the Defiant to all be flying together on a mission? Sure, why not, wierd one-offs like that can be fun. As wierd one-offs, once in a while. Warping in to Earth orbit and seeing that and much, much more much, much wierder stuff, every day, all the time though defeats the entire point of making a Star Trek game, because it doesn't look or feel like Star Trek any more. In seeking to satisfy every little fan demand, to let everyone play the version of Star Trek they want all at the same time, the result is that nobody gets to play Star Trek at all because the integrity of the IP is just gone.

Is this Custodes nonsense on that scale? No, but an extreme example seems to be the only way to get some people to grasp the concept - the limits are as much a part of the IP as everything else, and they do matter.

I can see where your coming from but I gotta say I don't really like the idea that the game must conform to the fluff. The relationship between fluff and gameplay should be symbiotic, everything that goes on in the background should be done with an eye to how it's represented on the table; the Genestealer cult is a perfect example of this(intentional or not) The army is CRAZY fluffy but is actually pretty darn powerful because the fluff LET them be powerful by emphasizing the fact that they specialize in ambush scenarios and that there's a whole boatload of these dudes running around. The fluff gives them viable, flexible tactics for the table, perfect!

That said, if something is done sloppily and one ends up leading the other, I'd much rather have gameplay be the emphasis and the fluff see changes. A 2 sentence, 'oh yeah they just screw around all over now' explanation is all it takes to justify something existing in the fluff and then I can have fun with it on the table. 'Oh yeah, contemptors are around.' Boom, awesome new thing rolling around. Try to force the table to react to the fluff and you end up with Tyranids eating themselves in instinctive behavoir or orks killing their own units every time they fail leadership.

**StupidYellow**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing with Sisters of Silence is that we don't actually know what happened to them. We don't know if they were wiped out or something. The only thing we know about what happened to them is that we don't know what happened to them.

According to the War of the Beast books they had fallen into decline and only one known Sect of them was going.

They only helped when they knew Vulcan was involved. Even then they basically thought the Imperium was fundamentally different from what they were originally fought for and basically didn't care if it fell.

They only helped because of Vulcan. They were mistrusted too as they still had a flying Rhino. I'm guessing by M32 technology had begun to become stagnated.

S.Y.

**casvalremdeikun**

StupidYellow wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing with Sisters of Silence is that we don't actually know what happened to them. We don't know if they were wiped out or something. The only thing we know about what happened to them is that we don't know what happened to them.

According to the War of the Beast books they had fallen into decline and only one known Sect of them was going.

They only helped when they knew Vulcan was involved. Even then they basically thought the Imperium was fundamentally different from what they were originally fought for and basically didn't care if it fell.

They only helped because of Vulcan. They were mistrusted too as they still had a flying Rhino. I'm guessing by M32 technology had begun to become stagnated.

S.Y.

And yet, after that point we still have no idea what became of them. Sure, only one sect is left at that point, but perhaps they continued to exist in small numbers, serving the Imperium when needed, then disappearing again.

**DeffDred**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
StupidYellow wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing with Sisters of Silence is that we don't actually know what happened to them. We don't know if they were wiped out or something. The only thing we know about what happened to them is that we don't know what happened to them.

According to the War of the Beast books they had fallen into decline and only one known Sect of them was going.

They only helped when they knew Vulcan was involved. Even then they basically thought the Imperium was fundamentally different from what they were originally fought for and basically didn't care if it fell.

They only helped because of Vulcan. They were mistrusted too as they still had a flying Rhino. I'm guessing by M32 technology had begun to become stagnated.

S.Y.

And yet, after that point we still have no idea what became of them. Sure, only one sect is left at that point, but perhaps they continued to exist in small numbers, serving the Imperium when needed, then disappearing again.

I thought they served on board the Black Ships.

**casvalremdeikun**

DeffDred wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
StupidYellow wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing with Sisters of Silence is that we don't actually know what happened to them. We don't know if they were wiped out or something. The only thing we know about what happened to them is that we don't know what happened to them.

According to the War of the Beast books they had fallen into decline and only one known Sect of them was going.

They only helped when they knew Vulcan was involved. Even then they basically thought the Imperium was fundamentally different from what they were originally fought for and basically didn't care if it fell.

They only helped because of Vulcan. They were mistrusted too as they still had a flying Rhino. I'm guessing by M32 technology had begun to become stagnated.

S.Y.

And yet, after that point we still have no idea what became of them. Sure, only one sect is left at that point, but perhaps they continued to exist in small numbers, serving the Imperium when needed, then disappearing again.

I thought they served on board the Black Ships.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Nothing is really confirmed on that. It seems like a logical place for them, though.

**StupidYellow**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
StupidYellow wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing with Sisters of Silence is that we don't actually know what happened to them. We don't know if they were wiped out or something. The only thing we know about what happened to them is that we don't know what happened to them.

According to the War of the Beast books they had fallen into decline and only one known Sect of them was going.

They only helped when they knew Vulcan was involved. Even then they basically thought the Imperium was fundamentally different from what they were originally fought for and basically didn't care if it fell.

They only helped because of Vulcan. They were mistrusted too as they still had a flying Rhino. I'm guessing by M32 technology had begun to become stagnated.

S.Y.

And yet, after that point we still have no idea what became of them. Sure, only one sect is left at that point, but perhaps they continued to exist in small numbers, serving the Imperium when needed, then disappearing again.

I'm not denying that they may continue to exist. Perhaps they are seconded to the Astra Telepathica as their bodyguards?

They would have to ideologically change though. I'm not sure they would get a free pass on not considering him to be a God. It's not as if they are Marines after all, neither are they under the protection of the Mechanicum.

I'm not sure I'd like to see them as anything more than enigmatic warriors who just appear as you say and vanish back into the holes of history.

However, if they are a larger fighting force in 42nd millennium and keep their original philosophy why haven't they been killed by the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy ?, it's not as if generic Humans get a pass on being Heretics even if they are blanks

S.Y.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Custodes running around in 40k is great! I hope they move the story forward and bring back the primarchs! And the 2 lost legions! And the Emperor reborn!

And maybe we can finally get some female space marines too!

**StupidYellow**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Custodes running around in 40k is great! I hope they move the story forward and bring back the primarchs! And the 2 lost legions! And the Emperor reborn!

And maybe we can finally get some female space marines too!

Please No.

Unless you are trying to say Sisters are female SM which they are not.

S.Y.

**CT GAMER**

Every game of 40k is a hypothetical "what-if" undertaking.

People do realize and admit that the vast majority of gamers and games break the fluff on multiple levels and that the average gamer at best knows his own fluff to some degree and perhaps his opponent's army fluff to a lesser degree no?

When people stop building armies based on cheese combos, changing heir chapter rules every other game but using the same paint scheme and every other game isn't Marine on marine I'll start nerdraging about somebody wanting to put their SOS/Custodes on the table.

We are all guilty.

God forbid people enjoy and use the toys they bought with their own money...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yodhrin wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
What?

GW did Sisters and Custodes rules which were Unbound on the basis they're not common in 40K, and a few people expressed positive sentiments that they were putting the IP above the chance to score a few extra sales. Then they decided actually, they want those extra sales and put out "proper" 40K rules.

Mymearan wrote:
That must be a record - GW responding to overwhelming feedback within two days giving people exactly what they wanted, and Yodhrin finding a way to complain about it anyway!

Ah yes, I forgot you speak for all gamers everywhere, and so anything you personally like is also supported by "overwhelming" numbers.

Nevelon wrote:
To be fair, the battles we play on the table are the exception, not the rule, for combat in the universe. Unless your local meta is 95% guards and orks. How many fights can a named chapter master be in? He’s just one guy in a vast universe.

It makes just about as much sense for a small unit of SoS/custodes to be sent on a critical, secret, mission then it does for abbadon to fight the farsight enclaves.

Yeah, see, that excuse works for a special scenario, or an event game, not the provision of rules that let you use something anytime, anywhere. Or else you have yourself a Star Trek Online situation.

Can you conceive of a story that would see a Constitution-class ship, a Wells timeship, a Ferengi cruiser, and the Defiant to all be flying together on a mission? Sure, why not, wierd one-offs like that can be fun. As wierd one-offs, once in a while. Warping in to Earth orbit and seeing that and much, much more much, much wierder stuff, every day, all the time though defeats the entire point of making a Star Trek game, because it doesn't look or feel like Star Trek any more. In seeking to satisfy every little fan demand, to let everyone play the version of Star Trek they want all at the same time, the result is that nobody gets to play Star Trek at all because the integrity of the IP is just gone.

Is this Custodes nonsense on that scale? No, but an extreme example seems to be the only way to get some people to grasp the concept - the limits are as much a part of the IP as everything else, and they do matter.

All 40k games are hypothetical "one-offs". Games don't have an continuity or linear connection to each other unless you are playing a campaign, and that is a different beast entirely from standard game play and has no bearing.

**Bull0**

I only actually play once in a blue moon, so having Custodes turn up in games does nothing to break my immersion. Seems like a really weird thing to complain about.

**TheDraconicLord**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Custodes running around in 40k is great! I hope they move the story forward and bring back the primarchs! And the 2 lost legions! And the Emperor reborn!

And maybe we can finally get some female space marines too!

Bring back the Primarchs: hell to the Yeah, the first one is soon

The Red Cyclops is gonna kick some ass!

2 lost legions: ain't gonna happen, those ones were removed so you can make your own mysterious past chapters.

Emperor reborn: You have no idea how much I would love to see the Starchild plot-line show up.

Female space marines: Now you are just trolling

**nudibranch**

One of the things that appeals to me about 40k is how there isn't really much of a 'canon' but rather an intertwined series of unreliable and clearly biased perspectives. This purposeful vagueness lets the individual project their own interpretation of the world without the slavish obedience to the sacred canon. Before Prospero, I heard at least 5 different theories as to what happened happened to the custodes and SoS, and I wouldn't have it any other way. So yes, it's true that the custodes are few in number and restricted to the Golden Throne, and also true that they're not...

**General Annoyance**

I'm not going to jump into any discussion about the SoS, the Custodes or the intricacies of the set like the one that is going on in this thread right now. I did however get the opportunity to crack open the box after my brother brought it back from a prelease event last night at my LGS.

GW's made a cracking set here; everything looks like it fits together well, the gameboard looks very nice (and is pretty solid) and there's plenty of extra bits across all the models to add to your bitz box. And of course, the Custodians and the Sisters of Silence steal the show, at least for me - the level and attention to detail on those models in particular is fantastic.

Well worth the £95 asking price, before you even include the fact that it's a boxed game.

Not that we got this one for £95... £76

G.A

**Bull0**

Apologies if it's been covered before, but are there any 30k rules for Sisters of Silence out yet or just 40k rules? I can only find the 40k rules. Want to know how to kit them out...

Found a bit of a clue in the assembly instructions - the different loadouts are listed as "vigilator", "witchseeker" and "prosecutor" - so I guess the 30k rules will be monobuild squads a la the 30k custodes rules. Screw it, swords it is.

**BrookM**

Their 30K rules will be published in the December issue of White Dwarf.

**Paradigm**

The Sisters rules for 30k are coming in next month's White Dwarf.

**Lord Damocles**

[

StupidYellow wrote:
Perhaps they are seconded to the Astra Telepathica as their bodyguards?

If there's one place you absolutely don't want to put Sisters of Silence, it's around psykers you're not trying to harm.

**NivlacSupreme**

What annoys me is that the custodes only have 5 poses and 10 variants with a few extra heads. So you can't have 5 normal dudes with guardian spears.

**shade1313**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
What annoys me is that the custodes only have 5 poses and 10 variants with a few extra heads. So you can't have 5 normal dudes with guardian spears.

wut?

**H.B.M.C.**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
What annoys me is that the custodes only have 5 poses and 10 variants with a few extra heads. So you can't have 5 normal dudes with guardian spears.

The kit comes with 5 Spears.

**General Annoyance**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
What annoys me is that the custodes only have 5 poses and 10 variants with a few extra heads. So you can't have 5 normal dudes with guardian spears.

Wrong. I count 5 Guardian Spears on the sprue that's in front of me right now, as well as 5 Sentinel Baldes, 5 Storm Shields and 5 Power Knives.

The Custodians' legs are also separate to their torsos and heads. A multipose kit just like any other.

**JohnHwangDD**

Guys, maybe his box is missing a spear bit?

**General Annoyance**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Guys, maybe his box is missing a spear bit?

Exalted