Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Oh. I only own the metals, and all of them are Wraithcannon.

The Close Combat Phase.

Terminators... deathwing... dark angels deathwing alpha strike (hell blood angels and space marines can do it now, we used to be able to do it)

 455_PWR wrote:
Terminators... deathwing... dark angels deathwing alpha strike (hell blood angels and space marines can do it now, we used to be able to do it)

Make the BA as competent at high speed combat as the DA, and we'll talk.

I wouldn't mind assaults on turn 1 if they changed the action to something like Dark Age where each player took turns activating one unit back and fourth until each sides units have activated then end the round.

Orks, in general. More specifically:
Meganobz are overcosted, and while they can be dead killy if they actually get to hit, they are slow to get into close combat (Unless you buy an expensive and fragile transport, or a cheap and really really fragile transport,) and the amount of AP2 at range (Or just AP2 at initiative) currently in the game ensures that they'll be made into mincemeat.

C'mon, would it kill GW to let us have one invuln? Somewhere? (Kustom Force Fields don't count.) Cybork Bodies were fine as they were, but 6+ FNP is just useless.

There's practically no reason to take about half the units in the codex, on top of it all.

Martel732 wrote:

 455_PWR wrote:
Terminators... deathwing... dark angels deathwing alpha strike (hell blood angels and space marines can do it now, we used to be able to do it)

Make the BA as competent at high speed combat as the DA, and we'll talk.

You know, I think that what the BA really need is new design space.

Wolves are the close combat force.
White Scars are the fast and mobile force.
Ultramarines are the balanced force. (Hadouken!)
Dark Angeles are kinda hard to place but tend to be the beefy types (lots of Terminators)

Blood Angels just don't have design space in there to be *another* CC force.

So, mix 'em up.

Invoke the power of Sanguinus and make them a psyche-heavy force. Not bands of them so much as having more Librarians than most and gently nudge the Black Rage into "A permanent state of psychic-fueled rage, making them stronger, faster, more powerful than normal as psychic power ripples out of them, but the power drives them mad." They aren't the anti-Chaos force of the Grey Knights, but they have something different than most. give 'em fairly normal Marine stuff, minus a few neat gadgets, but add more psychic options. Let their veteran sergeants be upgraded to Pshycher Level 1 and have some small unit buff abilities. Give them a "Blood coven" Elite group of level 1 psychers lead by a level 2, who channel their power through him to blast stuff better.

It's a bit odd, but it gives them *something*, you know?

See, now I think 40k should go back to BA and DA being palette swap Ultras with just a couple unique units and Special Characters. 90% identical on the board.

Wakshaani wrote:

You know, I think that what the BA really need is new design space.

Wolves are the close combat force.
White Scars are the fast and mobile force.
Ultramarines are the balanced force. (Hadouken!)
Dark Angeles are kinda hard to place but tend to be the beefy types (lots of Terminators)

Blood Angels just don't have design space in there to be *another* CC force.

So, mix 'em up.

Invoke the power of Sanguinus and make them a psyche-heavy force. Not bands of them so much as having more Librarians than most and gently nudge the Black Rage into "A permanent state of psychic-fueled rage, making them stronger, faster, more powerful than normal as psychic power ripples out of them, but the power drives them mad." They aren't the anti-Chaos force of the Grey Knights, but they have something different than most. give 'em fairly normal Marine stuff, minus a few neat gadgets, but add more psychic options. Let their veteran sergeants be upgraded to Pshycher Level 1 and have some small unit buff abilities. Give them a "Blood coven" Elite group of level 1 psychers lead by a level 2, who channel their power through him to blast stuff better.

It's a bit odd, but it gives them *something*, you know?

SW are not close combat, they are SM+1. Somehow better at literally everything.
DA are elite bikes and terminators
Ultras are balanced
BA are close combat

Having BA be psyker heavy doesnt make much sense. Sanguinius was a CC monster who Horus was only able to defeat by using sorcery. Apparently he didnt have much defense for that kind of stuff.

 Exergy wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:

You know, I think that what the BA really need is new design space.

Wolves are the close combat force.
White Scars are the fast and mobile force.
Ultramarines are the balanced force. (Hadouken!)
Dark Angeles are kinda hard to place but tend to be the beefy types (lots of Terminators)

Blood Angels just don't have design space in there to be *another* CC force.

So, mix 'em up.

Invoke the power of Sanguinus and make them a psyche-heavy force. Not bands of them so much as having more Librarians than most and gently nudge the Black Rage into "A permanent state of psychic-fueled rage, making them stronger, faster, more powerful than normal as psychic power ripples out of them, but the power drives them mad." They aren't the anti-Chaos force of the Grey Knights, but they have something different than most. give 'em fairly normal Marine stuff, minus a few neat gadgets, but add more psychic options. Let their veteran sergeants be upgraded to Pshycher Level 1 and have some small unit buff abilities. Give them a "Blood coven" Elite group of level 1 psychers lead by a level 2, who channel their power through him to blast stuff better.

It's a bit odd, but it gives them *something*, you know?

SW are not close combat, they are SM+1. Somehow better at literally everything.
DA are elite bikes and terminators
Ultras are balanced
BA are close combat

Having BA be psyker heavy doesnt make much sense. Sanguinius was a CC monster who Horus was only able to defeat by using sorcery. Apparently he didnt have much defense for that kind of stuff.

Are you kidding about SW? Because they haven't been that since 5th edition. Nowadays, Space Wolves are Space Marines, but without most of their toys. We don't get Grav Guns, we don't get Centurion armor, we don't get a lot of things. Our scouts suck, our 'Tactical Marines' can take two special weapons, which is nice, but can't combat squad and ultimately kind of suck (Our version of Chapter Tactics just isn't as good as what most other armies get, and it's not worth 2ppm to get the +1 CCW). We don't have a Chapter Master equivalent, we don't have any way to get EW on anyone except our overcosted special characters. Most of our relics are pretty meh. We have two good units (TWC and Wulfen,) and neither of them are 'SM+1.'

 Exergy wrote:


SW are not close combat, they are SM+1. Somehow better at literally everything.
DA are elite bikes and terminators
Ultras are balanced
BA are close combat

Having BA be psyker heavy doesnt make much sense. Sanguinius was a CC monster who Horus was only able to defeat by using sorcery. Apparently he didnt have much defense for that kind of stuff.

Sanguinius was considered one of the most powerful psykers of all the Primarchs, possibly the 2nd most powerful behind Magnus. So it would make perfect sense.

Make shooting stronger, down with melee combat. Let there be explosions from far far away, pew pew.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Make shooting stronger, down with melee combat. Let there be explosions from far far away, pew pew.

Shooting is already strong enough.

Not in my book, it isn't.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
See, now I think 40k should go back to BA and DA being palette swap Ultras with just a couple unique units and Special Characters. 90% identical on the board.

I tend to agree. . .

 Bobthehero wrote:
Not in my book, it isn't.

Care to explain why not? Because as far as I can see, shooting is king in 40k. Melee exists as an afterthought, for all but the specialized and highly focused close-combat units. Outside of straight removing melee from the game, I don't see how you could make things more balanced towards shooting.

Well blasts could use a buff or three to begin with, as well as high str single shot weapons.

I don't like melee personally and I do everything to avoid it,it would be nice to make it even less relevant, to me, at least.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Well blasts could use a buff or three to begin with, as well as high str single shot weapons.

I don't like melee personally and I do everything to avoid it,it would be nice to make it even less relevant, to me, at least.

probably has something to do with the fact that you play a bad shooting army (Compared to Tau) and have no good CC units in your codex

If the Guard or Krieg had anything decent in CC I wouldn't take that unit anyway.

 Bobthehero wrote:
If the Guard or Krieg had anything decent in CC I wouldn't take that unit anyway.

Good for you but a big part of this game is predicated on the ability to get into and fight Close Combat. Nids, Orks, some eldar, and some SM chapters THRIVE in CC. It would utterly ruin the game for half the factions if you got rid of CC.

So if you wanted to ruin half of 40k and lose a large portion of the fanbase this would be a good way to go about doing that

I am aware, don't care much about those armies (one in particular...) besides the point of this thread is to tell what you want to see buffed and I did just that.

Rework the psy powers. Less cleaner tables, less idiocy like invis, re-rollable saves and unit swaps + assaults. Oh and earth magic.

Bobthehero wrote:Make shooting stronger, down with melee combat. Let there be explosions from far far away, pew pew.

I thought that was what happened from 5th to 6th then especially from 6th to 7th edition.

Shooting has been tops since 5th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:

You know, I think that what the BA really need is new design space.

Wolves are the close combat force.
White Scars are the fast and mobile force.
Ultramarines are the balanced force. (Hadouken!)
Dark Angeles are kinda hard to place but tend to be the beefy types (lots of Terminators)

Blood Angels just don't have design space in there to be *another* CC force.

So, mix 'em up.

Invoke the power of Sanguinus and make them a psyche-heavy force. Not bands of them so much as having more Librarians than most and gently nudge the Black Rage into "A permanent state of psychic-fueled rage, making them stronger, faster, more powerful than normal as psychic power ripples out of them, but the power drives them mad." They aren't the anti-Chaos force of the Grey Knights, but they have something different than most. give 'em fairly normal Marine stuff, minus a few neat gadgets, but add more psychic options. Let their veteran sergeants be upgraded to Pshycher Level 1 and have some small unit buff abilities. Give them a "Blood coven" Elite group of level 1 psychers lead by a level 2, who channel their power through him to blast stuff better.

It's a bit odd, but it gives them *something*, you know?

SW are not close combat, they are SM+1. Somehow better at literally everything.
DA are elite bikes and terminators
Ultras are balanced
BA are close combat

Having BA be psyker heavy doesnt make much sense. Sanguinius was a CC monster who Horus was only able to defeat by using sorcery. Apparently he didnt have much defense for that kind of stuff.

Are you kidding about SW? Because they haven't been that since 5th edition. Nowadays, Space Wolves are Space Marines, but without most of their toys. We don't get Grav Guns, we don't get Centurion armor, we don't get a lot of things. Our scouts suck, our 'Tactical Marines' can take two special weapons, which is nice, but can't combat squad and ultimately kind of suck (Our version of Chapter Tactics just isn't as good as what most other armies get, and it's not worth 2ppm to get the +1 CCW). We don't have a Chapter Master equivalent, we don't have any way to get EW on anyone except our overcosted special characters. Most of our relics are pretty meh. We have two good units (TWC and Wulfen,) and neither of them are 'SM+1.'

SW, otherwise known as C: Wulfen and TWC, make most other CC armies completely pointless. Lists like BA might as well not exist. Death Company and other CC-focused units are embarrassingly bad compared to SW melee.

(/quote)SW are not close combat, they are SM+1. Somehow better at literally everything.
DA are elite bikes and terminators
Ultras are balanced
BA are close combat

Having BA be psyker heavy doesnt make much sense. Sanguinius was a CC monster who Horus was only able to defeat by using sorcery. Apparently he didnt have much defense for that kind of stuff.

As an IG player, I don't mind that Tau (& Eldar) have better shooting. That's fine. Tau are semi-elite (and Eldar are elite), so having better, higher-quality shooting is reasonable.

I do mind somewhat that my IG shooting isn't sufficiently cheap enough for me to make up in sheer quantity what others do with quality.

Oh, one other thing: Plasma. Make it actually fething useful, instead of hurting myself.

I never take Plasma. Grav does the same thing (usually), only better and I never risk hurting myself.

The game fundamentally needs a total ground-up reboot at this point, probably even more drastic than the 3E reboot. Wipe the rules in their entirety and restart from scratch, with a clearer vision of scale and power level. There's no salvaging 7th.

The problem with a full-scratch rewrite is that GW has kinda painted themselves into a corner with the 40k Titans and Flyers and GMCs. And made it even worse with a massive amount of Special Rules.

I mean, yes, that's the right way to fix 40k, but a lot of people are going to be super mad about the change, moreso than 2E.

I think assault should be fixed as well as codexes like chaos and IG also possibly orks to make every unit playable so that people can bring whatever they want and not stick to the prescribed list like speed freaks and hell drake flying circus or maybe Leman Russ spam, I want Warhammer to become more fluffy.
And by the gods make thousand sons and berserkers playable!