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casvalremdeikun wrote:Is the only thing in there for the Deathwatch just the Veteran Squad? No formation or anything?

Deathwatch get a Kill Team, which is a unit of Veterans who get the Aquila Doctrine (re-roll To Wounds/Armour Pen of 1), but can only take the Corvus Blackstar as a Dedicated Transport

ShaneMarsh wrote:Can you confirm that Command Squads for the Sisters are an Elite choice? What is the AI formation? The DW?

Veridyan sounds cool.

Command Squads are Elite Choices. Aeronautica Imperialis formation is 1 Fast Attack (ie a Valkyrie), 1 optional HQ (ie an Officer of the Fleet) and can re-roll failed Reserve Rolls...

Mike Leon wrote:Are assassins just a copy/paste or anything new?

Assassins are unchanged from their current incarnation.

edit: also have some PICTURES

 GoonBandito wrote:

casvalremdeikun wrote:Is the only thing in there for the Deathwatch just the Veteran Squad? No formation or anything?

Deathwatch get a Kill Team, which is a unit of Veterans who get the Aquila Doctrine (re-roll To Wounds/Armour Pen of 1), but can only take the Corvus Blackstar as a Dedicated Transport.[/url]

That is actually pretty cool. It is also cheaper than an actual Aquila Kill Team, since you don't need a Terminator, Librarian, Biker, or Vanguard Veteran.

It is weird that they would change the datasheets between the different codexes though.

I wonder if this means no more bolter/shotgun for the Deathwatch vets since they removed the boltgun from the Ranged Weapons entry.

So an Inquisition faction Acolyte squad can take an Adepta Sororitas faction Rhino or Aeronautica faction Valkyrie but can't start the game in them according to the FAQ.

Well played GW, well played.

Chris521 wrote:
I wonder if this means no more bolter/shotgun for the Deathwatch vets since they removed the boltgun from the Ranged Weapons entry.

You could be right. I certainly hope not since I have been modeling mine with the shotgun on back.

Chris521 wrote:
I wonder if this means no more bolter/shotgun for the Deathwatch vets since they removed the boltgun from the Ranged Weapons entry.

Yeah looks like. Good catch, I didn't notice that at first. The Veteran's dataslate in C:IA is the same as the Codex: DeathWatch one too (minus Drop Pod, Rhino and Razorback DT options), so nothing changed there to allow it. I suspect the Free Boltgun swap was only in the Codex: Deathwatch Ranged Weapons list to allow Captains/Chaplains/Librarians to be kitted with a Boltgun.

Loopstah wrote:
So an Inquisition faction Acolyte squad can take an Adepta Sororitas faction Rhino or Aeronautica faction Valkyrie but can't start the game in them according to the FAQ.

Well played GW, well played.

Actually, I think we may be OK on that front:
"Sometimes a unit entry will include a transport option...
The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it)After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly Infantry unit, subject to Transport capacity and other specific exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry."


So no Drop Pod taxis still, but as long it was bought for a unit, the unit can start in it, plus any (Allied) ICs attached to that unit. The specific "the only limitation" would seem to override the general "units cannot ride in allied transports"

The scary thing here is that, according to the FAQ, the most recent datasheet trumps all others. What that translates to is that Deathwatch Veterans squads just lost the ability to take Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Drop Pods as Dedicated Transports as this new datasheet is the most recent version of their datasheet.

This guy has to be lying/trolling. His pictures aren't blurry enough.

GoonBandito, if you want us to believe you you need to take the pictures from the bed of a moving pickup truck, driving by the codex doing 50 or so, with the flash and nightvision modes on in broad daylight, and possibly after someone has sprayed the pages with glosscoat.

 GoonBandito wrote:

Chris521 wrote:
I wonder if this means no more bolter/shotgun for the Deathwatch vets since they removed the boltgun from the Ranged Weapons entry.

Yeah looks like. Good catch, I didn't notice that at first. The Veteran's dataslate in C:IA is the same as the Codex: DeathWatch one too (minus Drop Pod, Rhino and Razorback DT options), so nothing changed there to allow it. I suspect the Free Boltgun swap was only in the Codex: Deathwatch Ranged Weapons list to allow Captains/Chaplains/Librarians to be kitted with a Boltgun.

Do you see any difference in the wording for blackshields and heavy thunder hammers? I know that the Deathwatch codex only says "any Veteran" and not any model. Assuming of coarse, Blackshields are in this dataslate.

 Mike Leon wrote:
This guy has to be lying/trolling. His pictures aren't blurry enough.

GoonBandito, if you want us to believe you you need to take the pictures from the bed of a moving pickup truck, driving by the codex doing 50 or so, with the flash and nightvision modes on in broad daylight, and possibly after someone has sprayed the pages with glosscoat.

The hardest part is trying to balance the book open while holding a beer in one hand and the phone in the other


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chris521 wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

Chris521 wrote:
I wonder if this means no more bolter/shotgun for the Deathwatch vets since they removed the boltgun from the Ranged Weapons entry.

Yeah looks like. Good catch, I didn't notice that at first. The Veteran's dataslate in C:IA is the same as the Codex: DeathWatch one too (minus Drop Pod, Rhino and Razorback DT options), so nothing changed there to allow it. I suspect the Free Boltgun swap was only in the Codex: Deathwatch Ranged Weapons list to allow Captains/Chaplains/Librarians to be kitted with a Boltgun.

Do you see any difference in the wording for blackshields and heavy thunder hammers? I know that the Deathwatch codex only says "any Veteran" and not any model. Assuming of coarse, Blackshields are in this dataslate.

Worded exactly the same as Codex: Deathwatch. The only difference in the Veterans dataslate itself is that they don't have Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod options in Codex: Imperial Agents.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The scary thing here is that, according to the FAQ, the most recent datasheet trumps all others. What that translates to is that Deathwatch Veterans squads just lost the ability to take Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Drop Pods as Dedicated Transports as this new datasheet is the most recent version of their datasheet.

No way they intended that just as I'm certain the Bolter/Shotgun combo was something they never intended either.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The scary thing here is that, according to the FAQ, the most recent datasheet trumps all others. What that translates to is that Deathwatch Veterans squads just lost the ability to take Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Drop Pods as Dedicated Transports as this new datasheet is the most recent version of their datasheet.

No way they intended that just as I'm certain the Bolter/Shotgun combo was something they never intended either.

Probably not as intended, but it is what the effect is. The newer datasheet replaces the old one. Which means no more Rhinos, Razorbacks, or Drop Pods in Deathwatch unless you spend a FA slot for them.

Added a few more photos of some of the fluff

Regarding the big formation of =I= is there a limit of how many models form the unit?
the one with
1 inquisitor, 1 unit of acolytes, 0-1 priests 0-1 crusaders etc that form a single unit. does the 0-1 for Death cult assassins for example count as the unit of deathcult assassins or is it a single one (and with that, no more in the unt)?

Can lone jokero or deamon hosts join units

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
So an Inquisition faction Acolyte squad can take an Adepta Sororitas faction Rhino or Aeronautica faction Valkyrie but can't start the game in them according to the FAQ.

Well played GW, well played.

Actually, I think we may be OK on that front:
"Sometimes a unit entry will include a transport option...
The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it)After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly Infantry unit, subject to Transport capacity and other specific exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry."


So no Drop Pod taxis still, but as long it was bought for a unit, the unit can start in it, plus any (Allied) ICs attached to that unit. The specific "the only limitation" would seem to override the general "units cannot ride in allied transports"

That still doesn't allow the unit to start in the transport, because the faq states:

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s
Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

And seeing how the transport doesn't change faction when taken as ds, means no one could start in the transport. But that is strictly speaky RAW.

So after looking through the Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition lists, here are the changes I can see from the e-dexs. If I didn't mention it, it didn't change as far as I can see.


Adepta Sororitas:

St Celestine removed

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave removed (ie the mixed Arco-flagellent/Crusader/Death Cult Assassin unit)

Sororitas Command Squad moved to the Elites section

Ministorum Priests now a proper HQ choice (was previously a slotless 1-5 non-compulsory HQ)


New unit: Arco-flagellants (Elite). 3 Arco-Flagellants for 30pts, can buy up to 7 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT.

New unit: Crusaders (Elite). 2 Crusaders for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT

New unit: Death Cult Assassins (Elite). 2 DCA's for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or immolator.


New detachment: Ministorum Delegation. 1 HQ (must be a Ministorum Priest) and 1 optional Elite, all units in the detachment gain Shield of Faith.

New detachment: Vestal Task Force. 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, optional 1 HQ, 4 Troops, 2 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support. Once per game all units can re-roll saving throws of 1 until the end of the turn. Warlord can re-roll Walord Trait if Primary Detachment.

New formation: Ecclisarchy Battle Conclave. 1 Ministorum Priest or Uriah Jacobus. 3-10 units in any combination of Arco-flagellants, Crusaders or Death Cult Assassins. All models in the Formation form a single unit, and all models get the Shield of Faith rule.


Immolator: Gained a Fire Point on the top hatch (as per the draft FAQ).

Condemnor Boltgun: Only requires you to hit an enemy unit with a Psyker to cause Perils, rather than having to cause an Unsaved Wound (as per the draft FAQ)

Acts of Faith: They all now last until the End of the Turn, rather than the End of the Phase. This means some slight buffs, eg Battle Sister Squads can now carry their Preferred Enemy Act of Faith from the Shooting Phase into the Assault Phase of the same turn.

Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher clarified to be a turret mounted weapon with a 360-degree arc of sight.


New Tactical Objectives:

* Slay the Heretic: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you killed any enemy characters during the turn

* Armour of Contempt: The next time one of your Adepta Sororitas makes a successful Shield of Faith save or Deny the Witch roll, immediately score 1 VP.

* Reclaim Lost Relic: Roll a D6 - Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you control the objective that corresponds to the D6 result.

* Trust in the Emperor: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if a unit with the Act of Faith rule destroys an enemy unit. If the unit was under the effects of an Act of Faith, score D3 VPs instead.

* The Blood of Martyrs: Next time one of your Adepta Sororitas characters is slain, score 1 VP. If the model as the Martyrdom rule, score D3 VPs instead.

* A Leap of Faith: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you pass at least 1 Act of Faith test during the turn. If you pass 3, score D3 VPs instead. If you pass 6 or more, score D3+3 VPs instead.


Inquisition:

Inquisitors - lost the cheaper power weapon, power fist and plasma pistol options which are now standard price (with the exception of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, who can still take 10pt Power Swords but still can't take Power Fists or other Power Weapons).

Inquisitors - Power Armour upgrade reduced to 3pts from 8pts

Inquisitors - lost Servo Skulls

Inquisitors - Psyk-Out grenade rules changed to match the updated Grey Knight rules

Inquisitors - can now only take the Inquisitorial Relic associated with their Ordos.

Inquisitor Coteaz - Gained the Lord of Formosa special rule. All units in the same detachment as Coteaz are Objective Secured.


Dedicated Transports - Lost Razorbacks and Rhinos, but gained Sororitas Rhinos. Chimeras are still only 55pts, but lost the 5 Fire Points (now work the same as Codex: Astra Militarum ie 2 Fire Points and the Lasgun Arrays rule). Lost the ability to give Inquisitorial Vehicle Upgrades to anything but the Chimera - this means no more Psybolt Land Raider Crusaders. This is because Land Raiders, Sororitas Rhinos and Valkyries come from the Grey Knight, Adepta Sororitas and Aeronautica Imperalis lists respectively, and can only take the Vehicle Upgrades listed in those sections.


Inquisitorial Henchman Warband unit removed.


Psykers Removed (ie no longer an option as a Henchman. Effectively moved to the Adepta Astra Telepathica section, where you can grab Primaris Psykers, Astropaths and Wyrdvane Psykers).


Servitors Removed (moved to the Cult Mechanicus section of the book. Plasma Cannon option increased to 15pts from 10pts)


New Unit: Acolytes (Elite). 3 Acolytes for 12pts and can buy up to 9 more for 4pts/model. Same statline and wargear options as previous codex, however the cost of Carapace/Power armour upgrades are cut in half (2 and 5pts respectively). Any Acolyte can be upgraded to a Mystic for 6pts, and gain the same Psychic Beacon rule. Can take Chimeras, Sororitas Rhinos, all 3 Land Raider types or Valkyries as transports.


New Unit: Demonhost (Elite). 1 Demonhost for 10pts. Gains the Demon rule, otherwise identical to previous codex.


New Unit: Jokaero Weaponsmith (Elite). 1 Jokareo Weaponsmith for 35pts. Identical to previous codex.


New Unit: Chimera (Heavy Support). Also lost the 5 fire points, and now works the same as the Astra Militarum one.


New Detachment: Inquisitorial Representative. 1 HQ, optional 3 Elites. One Inquisitor from the formation (including Unique models) can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord.


New Formation: Inquisitorial Henchman Warband. 1 Inquisitor (including Unique models), 1 Unit of Acolytes, 0-1 Ministorum Priests, 0-1 Crusaders, 0-6 Demonhosts, 0-1 Arco-flagellents, 0-1 Death Cult Assassins, 0-1 Tech-Priest Enginseer, 0-6 Jokearo Weaponsmiths, 0-1 Astropaths. All units except the Inquisitor must form a single Unit. Inquisitor can generate a Warlord Trait even if they are not the Warlord. Can include either a Battle Sister Squad, Grey Knight Terminator Squad or Deathwatch Veteran squad in the formation as per your Inquisitors Ordo.

 Mr Morden wrote:

hrowing a ton of new rules at every codex release / faction update is exactly how we ended up with an incredibly imbalanced game. I'm not a fan of the whole powercreep going on, so - in terms of game balance - I'm just waiting for 8th edition to hopefully fix that problem. A single Codex just can't do that, sadly - so I'm not really expecting it from any such release

Which Imperial Codexes do you play then. Is it only your codexes that are allowed to have good stuff?

Sorted by points: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Inquisition, Deathwatch and Grey Knights. A Sisters of Battle army is planned, waiting for delivery from RH. Technically I've also got Officio Assassinorum.

Still wating for you to explain what the bonus to the Sisters of Battle was? St Celestine is gone, this is the new codex, in exchange two truely dire detachments - one of which is there to help - oh yeah Marines - what a shock.

As I've already answered I was under the impression that DCAs as Squads are a new thing. See above - SoB aren't an army of mine yet, so I'm not THAT familiar with the rules. My mistake.

You've got no clue what transport options are available to Acolytes. None at all. Nor have you seen all the Navy pages, have you? Maybe they've put in a "you may embark Battle Brothers on this transport". Who knows? I don't, and I don't think there's been a leak of those pages, or am I mistaken?

We will soon see who is right - all the signs point to none of these - its not mentioned in the overiding Inqusitional Formaiton which has been shown. The reviewers have confirmed that all units retain their Factions so no deploying in transports like the Valykries.

The Navy stuff isn't ever part of the Inquisitorial Formation from what I can tell - and we haven't seen the Detachment that's attached to it, have we?
The other possible way to get a Valkyrie would be as a DT for e.g. the Acolytes, and that would be of the same faction as the Acolytes for sure.
*edit*
Well, now that we KNOW that Valks are a DT, we can rest this issue, can't we?

Read what you quoted. Just do it. And now reflect on what you just wrote. Do you notice a certain ... mismatch between what you claim my position is and what I've actually written?

Nope, several of us suggested that Inquistors should really have a Invul save to be in line with the fluff - and suddenly "they are walking force shield generators" - so which is it - they should or should not have them? Again why are you anti- lore/fluff

First of all: Yes, they should have access but I don't think it's very important nor makes or breaks Inquisition as a faction or the Codex: Imperial Agents as a book. Which I've already said.

I've never suggested that they are walking force shield generators or would become ones if granted an invuln save. I've said that, judging by how essential some people think an invuln save is to an Inquisitor that one could think they are walking force shield generators, and thus wouldn't work or be playable at all without it (as a shield g enerator without a shield is pointless). I think Inquisitors - and the Codex: Imperial Agents - do not loose their right to exist just because Inquisitors don't have access to an Invuln save.

I dunno, for 30 points if you are taking coteaz anyways, you can Have three Daemonhosts hiding out of line of sight with objective secured...

Those canoness's rules don't look so good now.

GoonBandito- What servitors are available to the Cult Mechanicus, and what is their formation?

terry wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
So an Inquisition faction Acolyte squad can take an Adepta Sororitas faction Rhino or Aeronautica faction Valkyrie but can't start the game in them according to the FAQ.

Well played GW, well played.

Actually, I think we may be OK on that front:
"Sometimes a unit entry will include a transport option...
The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it)After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly Infantry unit, subject to Transport capacity and other specific exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry."


So no Drop Pod taxis still, but as long it was bought for a unit, the unit can start in it, plus any (Allied) ICs attached to that unit. The specific "the only limitation" would seem to override the general "units cannot ride in allied transports"

That still doesn't allow the unit to start in the transport, because the faq states:

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s
Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

And seeing how the transport doesn't change faction when taken as ds, means no one could start in the transport. But that is strictly speaky RAW.

Presumably is a case of the general rule (BRB + faq preventing starting in battle brothers transports) being trumped by the codex specific rule of allowing them as a dedicated transport. Codex often over-rides BRB but it would be nicer if they specifically state it. Clunky but still RAW.

SolentSanguine wrote:

terry wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
So an Inquisition faction Acolyte squad can take an Adepta Sororitas faction Rhino or Aeronautica faction Valkyrie but can't start the game in them according to the FAQ.

Well played GW, well played.

Actually, I think we may be OK on that front:
"Sometimes a unit entry will include a transport option...
The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it)After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly Infantry unit, subject to Transport capacity and other specific exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry."


So no Drop Pod taxis still, but as long it was bought for a unit, the unit can start in it, plus any (Allied) ICs attached to that unit. The specific "the only limitation" would seem to override the general "units cannot ride in allied transports"

That still doesn't allow the unit to start in the transport, because the faq states:

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s
Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

And seeing how the transport doesn't change faction when taken as ds, means no one could start in the transport. But that is strictly speaky RAW.

Presumably is a case of the general rule (BRB + faq preventing starting in battle brothers transports) being trumped by the codex specific rule of allowing them as a dedicated transport. Codex often over-rides BRB but it would be nicer if they specifically state it. Clunky but still RAW.

but it never overrides the restriction, it just adds another restriction to the transport. Now I think anybody who wants you to follow raw on this one, is going against the spirit of the game and is ignoring the clear RAI

What the actual feth? They literally removed EVERYTHING that made Inquisition good: servo skulls (how are we supposed to counter scouting scar cheese now?). cheap, yet powerful due to psybolt, razorbacks, cheap warp charges... While all they could've done was to move Henchmen into troops. With the cheaper upgrades, mentioned above. But nooo, let's add some useless formations..

I guess, now I can bin my Inquisition razorback, that cost like 60 quid to make and be extremely glad that I hesitated to buy more upgrades for more razorbacks. Thanks, GW.

Wait wait, I can now run a unit of 100 DCA/crusaders/flahellants?? What the what???
(I kinda want to run a unit of 100 crusaders now as the ultimate tarpit.)

Oh, also; do litanies of true faith still exist? Thanks!

 nudibranch wrote:
Wait wait, I can now run a unit of 100 DCA/crusaders/flahellants?? What the what???
(I kinda want to run a unit of 100 crusaders now as the ultimate tarpit.)

How, exactly? I mean, 10 each still totals at 30 plus 12 melee-equipped Acolytes, but 100?

On the transports: Doesn't the formation say that all models are Faction Inquisition or something along those lines? Shouldn't that clearly override the more general FAQ rule?

That being said the Navy formation is - thanks to the FAQ - awesomely stupid. A transport that's apparently only able to transport a single model into battle.

Yeah, 3 - 10 units does seem odd there. It seems to be to enforce a minimum size (i.e. 6 models) but I feel like there might have been a better way to do that. Annoyingly it makes my Battle Conclave (2 Crusaders and 3 Arco-flagellants) illegal, but I can use them separately until I kitbash more models I guess.

@nekooni: he's referring to the Battle Conclave, which allows 3 - 10 units, each of 10 models, which all form a single unit.

Thommy H wrote:
Yeah, 3 - 10 units does seem odd there. It seems to be to enforce a minimum size (i.e. 6 models) but I feel like there might have been a better way to do that. Annoyingly it makes my Battle Conclave (2 Crusaders and 3 Arco-flagellants) illegal, but I can use them separately until I kitbash more models I guess.

@nekooni: he's referring to the Battle Conclave, which allows 3 - 10 units, each of 10 models, which all form a single unit.

Wow. I missed the "single unit" there, thanks!

That's ridiculously funny. 100 Crusaders with Stormshields - well, that's 1500 points plus the priest, but still - what?

Well on the plus side this finally happened...



(from the 2nd edition IG codex, circa 1995)

Now all we need is this...