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Isn't she like the best combatant in all of the history of the 40k universe. Her skill is unmatched

Big E. Gork. Mork. Nurgle. Khorne. Slaanesh. Tzeentch.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Big E. Gork. Mork. Nurgle. Khorne. Slaanesh. Tzeentch.

I don't think The Emperor has the combat ability that Lelith has

Well, not anymore.

Lorgar. Precognition > skill.

Im fact, arguably any Primarch. Sheer physique wins out. Even the 'slow' ones could outlast her and Fulgrim would be an utter nightmare (a monstrous brite compared to her and yet almost as fast).

Kaldor Draigo too because the way they write him he is really OP.

I am assuming literal gods are excluded.

Also psykers overall. Lelith has no psychic defense.

Any Primarch.

Any of the major lore characters, Emperor, Sigminsund, etc.

Probably half of the known Phoenix Lords.

Skarbrand, Ann'grath, etc.

She's only WS 9 on the tabletop. That means that she's on par with Daemon Princes, less than a Bloodthirster, Solitaire, or Skulltaker, and barely above Assassins.

An Avatar too had they been less worfed.

Oh! Lucius could. Either he wins and she dies, or she wins and she dies.

Drazhar

 JNAProductions wrote:
She's only WS 9 on the tabletop. That means that she's on par with Daemon Princes, less than a Bloodthirster, Solitaire, or Skulltaker, and barely above Assassins.

And a space marine is worth less than 3 guardsmen. Tabletop is a horrible way to try and judge the strength of characters in the lore.

I would say psykers would have a pretty good time of it. Abbadon would probably win I would think.

The Beast, given his gargantuan size and armament, would wreck her and as skilled as she is, she's won't be able to pop his defenses.

I can't see her taking down Primarchs given their robust physique.

High/Grand Harlequin since I recall her in Valedor getting chills from mentally thinking of testing her mettle against him and seeing him as a someone who could possibly defeat her.

Castellan Crowe and Skulltaker are another two contenders, both noted duellists.

Do yall think Sangunius could be competitive against her

She's free to try against St.Celestine. :-)

She bested one of the best duelist in the Adeptus Astartes history (if not the best) in an epic 5 hours fight armed with a knife in which she got a slight cut (her first and only wound). She killed with ease Hive Tyrant, Genestealer Patriarch, Chaos champion, etc. Its even mentionned that daemon lords and perhaspe even gods are watching her performance on pirated psychic crystals who are sold at high price by corsairs. Considering this reputation, you got to be more than badass to think you got a chance. She had more stamina than a Space Marine Champion known for his incredible endurence and mental fortitude and stamina is far from being her greatest quality...

Lelith herself regarded the Harlequin King as a fairly solid 'nope'. Unfortunately, we've seen and heard literally nothing else about this character since.

I think Drahzar could give her an awesome fight.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Im fact, arguably any Primarch. Sheer physique wins out. Even the 'slow' ones could outlast her and Fulgrim would be an utter nightmare (a monstrous brite compared to her and yet almost as fast).

Kaldor Draigo too because the way they write him he is really OP.

Lelith has gone up against more hulking physiques than Primarchs and always triumphed. Her fights take forever as she tires out her opponent, slowly wounding and weakening them with dozens of nasty blows but that might be because she is a showman who wants to drag things out for the audience. We have no record of her killing anything she wanted to kill fast.

Rumor is that Jaghatai Khan is a DE captive, endlessly fighting in the arena but never allowed to die. If that is the case, it seems likely that Lelith would have faced him.

Lucius, she cannot win against him.

 Exergy wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Im fact, arguably any Primarch. Sheer physique wins out. Even the 'slow' ones could outlast her and Fulgrim would be an utter nightmare (a monstrous brite compared to her and yet almost as fast).

Kaldor Draigo too because the way they write him he is really OP.

Lelith has gone up against more hulking physiques than Primarchs and always triumphed. Her fights take forever as she tires out her opponent, slowly wounding and weakening them with dozens of nasty blows but that might be because she is a showman who wants to drag things out for the audience. We have no record of her killing anything she wanted to kill fast.

Rumor is that Jaghatai Khan is a DE captive, endlessly fighting in the arena but never allowed to die. If that is the case, it seems likely that Lelith would have faced him.

I guess it depends on what primarch

An Imperial Master of Ordnance

Swarmlord?

I don't know. Don't her fluff.

 Bobthehero wrote:
An Imperial Master of Ordnance

Kharne the Betrayer. He never misses if there's no one else to hit.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Kaldor Draigo too because the way they write him he is really OP.

My favourite piece of headcanon about Kaldor Draigo is that he's not actually a supernaturally brilliant warrior, he's mad as a box of frogs from warp exposure. Whenever he pops out of the warp, he goes rambling on at length about all of his fantastical feats to anyone within earshot, all of which are utter works of fiction

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

And a space marine is worth less than 3 guardsmen. Tabletop is a horrible way to try and judge the strength of characters in the lore.

Personally, I view the tabletop as the ultimate leveller. You can have mega-fanboy A write up a novel where lascannon rounds bounce harmlessly off his favourite back-flipping power-armoured mary sues. Anything written in a novel can be written off as Imperial propaganda, or at least suspected as such (explaining some of the more ridiculous things you can read).

However, on the tabletop it's cold hard stats.

Personally, I find it quite fitting that a Marine is worth 3 Guardsmen. It fits their status as poster-boys of the Imperium, meant more for inspiring the masses than actually swaying the course of galactic conflicts (the only way to explain their woefully small numbers on a galactic scale).

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Lucius, she cannot win against him.

Hmmm, Lelith could be one of the few people who could legitimately beat Lucius I think.

If she rolfstomps him so hard that it's boring, he's not coming back

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Kaldor Draigo too because the way they write him he is really OP.

My favourite piece of headcanon about Kaldor Draigo is that he's not actually a supernaturally brilliant warrior, he's mad as a box of frogs from warp exposure. Whenever he pops out of the warp, he goes rambling on at length about all of his fantastical feats to anyone within earshot, all of which are utter works of fiction

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

And a space marine is worth less than 3 guardsmen. Tabletop is a horrible way to try and judge the strength of characters in the lore.

Personally, I view the tabletop as the ultimate leveller. You can have mega-fanboy A write up a novel where lascannon rounds bounce harmlessly off his favourite back-flipping power-armoured mary sues. Anything written in a novel can be written off as Imperial propaganda, or at least suspected as such (explaining some of the more ridiculous things you can read).

However, on the tabletop it's cold hard stats.

Personally, I find it quite fitting that a Marine is worth 3 Guardsmen. It fits their status as poster-boys of the Imperium, meant more for inspiring the masses than actually swaying the course of galactic conflicts (the only way to explain their woefully small numbers on a galactic scale).

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Lucius, she cannot win against him.

Hmmm, Lelith could be one of the few people who could legitimately beat Lucius I think.

If she rolfstomps him so hard that it's boring, he's not coming back

Wouldn't she still enjoy killing him? Just because you've been something for a long freaking time doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed.

I actually disagree that the tabletop is the defining setting. If scatbikes were as strong as they were on the tabletop, Eldar would conquer the galaxy, and if the tyranids were as woefully as ineffective in the fluff thats another xenos species that won't matter to the imperium. As a balancing factor, it isn't that screwed, but I am sure that Lelith could best a daemon prince. a main reason I'm gonna grab her model up, she is the best of the best, WS9 doesn't cut the mustard imho when it comes to fluff representation

Anyone with a pistol. She literally has no armor other than bdsm gear.

 gummyofallbears wrote:


Wouldn't she still enjoy killing him? Just because you've been something for a long freaking time doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed.

I actually disagree that the tabletop is the defining setting. If scatbikes were as strong as they were on the tabletop, Eldar would conquer the galaxy, and if the tyranids were as woefully as ineffective in the fluff thats another xenos species that won't matter to the imperium. As a balancing factor, it isn't that screwed, but I am sure that Lelith could best a daemon prince. a main reason I'm gonna grab her model up, she is the best of the best, WS9 doesn't cut the mustard imho when it comes to fluff representation

Depends if he put up a good enough fight. If it was utterly trivial, she might not feel anything.

Only might, mind you. Not an absolute statement.

The thing about the tabletop is it depicts the exceptionally rare circumstance that the forces on either side are (supposed to be) evenly matched.

Eldar could conquer the galaxy, if there wasn't a bajillion guardsmen for every Scatbike they can muster.

The Tyranids are woefully ineffective on an individual basis, but overwhelm their enemies by dropping a planet's-weight of biomorphs on their heads and syphoning up the resultant human-paste.

Ideally, the codices would actually be balanced against each other to accurately represent equally powerful forces on the tabletop, but that's primarily a points-costing mechanic. I truly believe that a T4 marine is tougher than a T3 Guardsman, but not quite as resistant to harm as a T5 Grotesque. It might be a little course a scale, but it works

Then, of course, there's some codex changes that do seem a little odd (like muscle-bound genetically-altered Kroot being as strong as guardsmen), but I suppose I'll be accused of being selective there

As for Lelith's WS9, it's not that that makes her so deadly on the tabletop. It's the disarm special rule. Pretty hard for Abaddon to win that duel when Drach'nyen's halfway down a gully somewhere.

Less skill, more technique...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
As for Lelith's WS9, it's not that that makes her so deadly on the tabletop. It's the disarm special rule. Pretty hard for Abaddon to win that duel when Drach'nyen's halfway down a gully somewhere..

Lelith doesn't have a disarm; that's Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshees. Actually, that right there is someone who may give Lelith a run for her money.

Oops!

Gerantius

Bjorn the Fell Handed

Sarpedon from the Soul Drinkers in his later incarnation would have an easy time of it I think.

30k primarchs, sigmoind, sevantor, and the utter elite CC monsters.

But its a short list.

Harlequin king..