Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

jSewell wrote:
Having a lot of trouble making a 1850 DG list I feel confident in. I'm on the fence between going full msu with a bunch of csm, chosen, havocs and bikes or taking some beefier options. The helldrake aux choice seems decent, especially with 3 squads of autocannon havocs walking around popping transports.

Just re-doing mine today as it happens. A lot of this is models i have in this army but might be useful as a frame of reference.

Combined Arms Detachment
Chaos Lord - Morgaustus 165
Mark of Nurgle, Sigil, Power Fist, Lightning Claw
Frag, Krak, Bike, Votlw

Daemon Prince - Sinpox the Rotbringer 275
Daemon of Nurgle, Wings, Armour, Pandemic Staff, Votlw
Level 1

5 Plague Marines 140
2x Meltaguns, Frag, Krak, Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Votlw
CCWs, Blight, Plague Champ

Rhino 35[/i]
Combi-Bolter, Lights, Smoke

5 Plague Marines 140
2x Meltaguns, Frag, Krak, Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Votlw
CCWs, Blight, Plague Champ

Rhino 35
Combi-Bolter, Lights, Smoke

5 Chosen 160
2x Plasmaguns, 1x Autocannon, Frag, Krak, Bolt Pistols, Votlw
1x Meltaguns, CCWs, MoN, Chosen Champ, 1x Flamer

Rhino 35
Combi-Bolter, Lights, Smoke

5 Chosen 158
2x Plasmaguns, 1x Autocannon, Frag, Krak, Bolt Pistols, Votlw
1x Meltagun, CCWs, MoN, Chosen Champ, Combi-Bolter

Rhino 35[i]
Combi-Bolter, Lights, Smoke

3 Spawn 108
Mark of Nurgle

3 Obilterators 228
Mark of Nurgle, Votlw

Defiler 195
Battle Cannon, Twin Heavy Flamers, 3x Power Fists
Lights, Smoke

Predator 140
Twin Lascannon, Side Lascannons, Lights, Smoke

Its not hyper competitive but more of a good but fun list to play with. Chosen are a test was gonna do them 4x melta and 4x plasma but wanna see how a versatile unit does + wanna make use of that new relentless in the form of the autocannon

What is this, a list for ants?!

XD didn't wanna spam the thread space with lists

Shove it in a

 andysonic1 wrote:
So you're taking a warband instead of a Raptor Talon? What will an Icon of Vengeance do for your deep strikes? What will an attached sorcerer or lord with relics do for your deep strikes? Where are you getting charge rerolls? Again, you have nothing that will mitigate deep strike scattering, so the best laid plans can fall apart instantly.

Night lords decurion gives army wide rerolls on charge, icon of vengeance let's you precision deep strike (has to be vengeance since NL can't take marks), and an allied detachment with some bikes would still benefit from base NL rules. Would need stormplate to tank all the hits.

*edit* Nevermind I'm old and dumb, apparently chaos icons don't let you deep strike onto them anymore? Shows how long it's been since I played a chaos marine army.

jSewell wrote:
Having a lot of trouble making a 1850 DG list I feel confident in. I'm on the fence between going full msu with a bunch of csm, chosen, havocs and bikes or taking some beefier options. The helldrake aux choice seems decent, especially with 3 squads of autocannon havocs walking around popping transports.

in fairness Nurgle Bikes ARE pretty beefy.

Anyone have any experience with a renegade knight? Which loadouts are worth building? I can make three so would want different builds on each.

Double avenger is usually the way to go. It's hard to say no to 24 str6 ap4 rending shots.

 Drasius wrote:
Double avenger is usually the way to go. It's hard to say no to 24 str6 ap4 rending shots.

second this, can be brutal.

Like all knights though it can often come as a surprise how quickly the enemy can take it out.

You should bring at least one battlecannon.

 koooaei wrote:
You should bring at least one battlecannon.

Why?

If he's got 3 kits (he said he can build 3), then a double avenger followed by your choice of paladin or errant (or even a crusader) would probably be the way to go. Or just ebay another avenger gatling cannon off ebay and make 2x double avengers and make all the marine players cry.

Trying to work out a way of doing null deploy Black Legion.

Their formation gives T1 deep strike, so that cxombines really well with the Raptor Talon assault on the turn they deep strike.

However the core detachment I wanted to put in drop pods. Melta Havocs would work super well there. However I don't want to have to take a CAD as well to get the FA slots to put the Dreadclaws in.

Any suggestions/ways around this?

You'll have to take a CAD to get dreadclaw for havoks. But they wouldn't be part of the speartip then, and as the drop pod assault rule would apply.. there's no point having the havoks in the BL speartip.

But, the other half of the drop pods could be in the speartip. And the second wave can arrive T1 on a 3+ if in the speartip (if that makes sense. )

So have half the dreadclaws in the speartip, as dedicated transports for chosen or csms

And take an IW CAD , with a hq, 2 oblits, dreadclaws and tank Hunter havoks, and put these in your first wave of drop pod assault. ( Alternatively DG, who are tough but worse on troop tax. )

Now your CAD claws arrive T1 through drop pod assault, and your speartip claws arrive T1 on a 3+(or auto with warlord. )

The warband can null deploy. Chosen and csm can take dedicated claws, you can choose termies and raptors which can already deepstrike and the helbrute can also take a dedicated claw. I don't mind claws at all, especially in a speartip where you can bring all of them in turn 1 (discuss with your opponent, it's a bit weird). That is assuming ObSec claws though, without that...eeeeh I dunno. Although, since you are bringing at least three claws, only one would have to roll for reserves. At that point it might be better to take a black crusade and give them ObSec.
I'd feel more comfortable deepstriking hounds with non ObSec claws though, since they have much more leeway in avoiding mishaps. They don't need to get out turn 1 as opposed to the warband. Still no ObSec though. The berzerkers I'd just keep in normal reserve. Ofc In this case the speartip isn't doing all that much really, least not for the hounds, They're be assaulting turn two with or without the speartip.

Either way a CAD wouldn't be bad for reserve re-rolls. Which would also unlock claws for Havocs rather than helbrutes, which would still be ObSec if you're taking a black crusade, but then you're raptors aren't coming T1.

Black Legion feels like it's full of conflicting choices. You really want ObSec and they have some of the best options for ObSec units in a CAD, but then you're not using the Speartip, which is kinda cool. The speartip requires either a BL warband or the hounds, yet the warband really hurts in a speartip. In order to make up for the lack of ObSec you would really need to put a lot of points in the warband to have enough units to get the most out of preferred enemy, which in turns limits the rest of the list.
The hounds don't really gain much from the speartip either. The best way to get them into assault is still a claw which comes T1 either way and then you're close enough to not need crusader for making charges. And now the claws aren't ObSec which sucks.

The Black crusade decurion on the other hand does very little for Black Legion as they already hate everybody and half the units in the warband are ObSec anyway. Personally I'd rather have access to IA units from the CAD then, than ObSec Bikers, which is the only real difference between a BL CAD and a chaos warband. Havocs having Obsec will matter very rarely since you're only taking 5 anyway and they're more likely to die than contest the objective they're sitting on. So I still feel like a CAD is the best choice. You could still take formations, except I really want to make use of T1 mass deepstriking XD And mixing CAD'S and decurions just gets super expensive.

Nick Nanavati's list from the glodensprue Cup

Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3* Prince, leevel 3, txeentch, wings, armour , spell familiar.

Daemon CAD

Masque ( huh?)
3 * 10 brimstones
11 brimstones

Aegis line with comms relay.

That list makes my butcher's nails itch. I imagine the focus is to use the psychic phase as your shooting phase and blast units off the table. Almost makes me want to use my WE + KDK list where WE lords are escorted by Flesh Hounds, the units having a 3+ deny the witch. Not that I would be able to deny much without ANY WARP DIE!

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Nick Nanavati's list from the glodensprue Cup

Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3* Prince, leevel 3, txeentch, wings, armour , spell familiar.

Daemon CAD

Masque ( huh?)
3 * 10 brimstones
11 brimstones

Aegis line with comms relay.

Masque is to shut down Deathstars.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Nick Nanavati's list from the glodensprue Cup

Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3* Prince, leevel 3, txeentch, wings, armour , spell familiar.

Daemon CAD

Masque ( huh?)
3 * 10 brimstones
11 brimstones

Aegis line with comms relay.

He won that GT too. Powerful army in the hand of a skilled player.
He didn't have comm relay in his huzzah GT list. I told him Magnus is susceptible to mass grab or warphunter alpha strike Haha.

So what looks to be a good way of building. Alpha Legion? Couple units of chosen with melta and lots of cultists? How many cultists is enough?

That's the way I play them. But I fail terrible when facing lots of vehicles or big guys.

Chaos Warband
Cheap Lord, Cheap Scourcerer,
min. units of CSM (Melta), Bikes, Havocs (AC), 3 units of chosen (2 units with Melta, 1 with Plasma)

Lost and the Damned
7 units of cultists (We still play it pre FAQ because of fluff And I own 15 units of 10-man Cultists)

2 Helldrakes

Covenant wrote:
That's the way I play them. But I fail terrible when facing lots of vehicles or big guys.

Chaos Warband
Cheap Lord, Cheap Scourcerer,
min. units of CSM (Melta), Bikes, Havocs (AC), 3 units of chosen (2 units with Melta, 1 with Plasma)

Lost and the Damned
7 units of cultists (We still play it pre FAQ because of fluff And I own 15 units of 10-man Cultists)

2 Helldrakes

What has the FAQ changed about it? I'm not overly familiar with warbands and such, is your army using the AL rules, such as I am Alpharius etc?

 Roknar wrote:
Chosen and csm can take dedicated claws,

Where are you getting this from?

 Sledgio wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Chosen and csm can take dedicated claws,

Where are you getting this from?

IA:13

^^ What he said.

Biadetic wrote:

Covenant wrote:
That's the way I play them. But I fail terrible when facing lots of vehicles or big guys.

Chaos Warband
Cheap Lord, Cheap Scourcerer,
min. units of CSM (Melta), Bikes, Havocs (AC), 3 units of chosen (2 units with Melta, 1 with Plasma)

Lost and the Damned
7 units of cultists (We still play it pre FAQ because of fluff And I own 15 units of 10-man Cultists)

2 Helldrakes

What has the FAQ changed about it? I'm not overly familiar with warbands and such, is your army using the AL rules, such as I am Alpharius etc?

The Warband-rules for AL cultists and the rules of the lost and damned do not stack. We play it that way that I potentially get two units back. I am really happy with this rule. But I feel, that I use to many cultists now...

 Badablack wrote:

Night lords decurion gives army wide rerolls on charge, icon of vengeance let's you precision deep strike (has to be vengeance since NL can't take marks), and an allied detachment with some bikes would still benefit from base NL rules. Would need stormplate to tank all the hits.

*edit* Nevermind I'm old and dumb, apparently chaos icons don't let you deep strike onto them anymore? Shows how long it's been since I played a chaos marine army.

I saw the point about precision deep strike and immediately went to Traitor Legions to look for it. Not fair getting my hopes up like that.

There's the option of a Black Legion Raptor Talon deep-striking on turn 1, and planting a Dimensional Key in some unfortunate.

So what is the correct way to use cultist from Lost and Damned in an AL insurgency force? Is it two separate rolls of 2 potential units or a rule that does nothing? The faq just says they don't interact in any stackable way.

Claas wrote:
So what is the correct way to use cultist from Lost and Damned in an AL insurgency force? Is it two separate rolls of 2 potential units or a rule that does nothing? The faq just says they don't interact in any stackable way.

No idea. I would play it as two rolls but maximum of one cultist unit. That way you are following the rules as written but aren't getting "stacked" benefits.