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 andysonic1 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
No one is saying Abaddon can't be in the speartip. But he cannot benefit from the Raptor Talons formation bonus to charge after deep striking.
(He could still deep strike with some raptors T1 and not charge.)


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 Jancoran wrote:
Magnus went 4-2 at my Elvensword Ambassadorial GT this weekend.

http://40kambassadors.com/coverage.php

Cool. Do you know the list?

its on the website.

The only list I can find with Magnus in it:

Matt Stevens Chaos Marines

Rehati War Sect
650 Magnus
310 Deamon Prince (Mark of Tzeetch, wings, armor, mastery lvl 3, spell familiar)
310 Deamon Prince (Mark of Tzeetch, wings, armor, mastery lvl 3, spell familiar)
310 Deamon Prince (Mark of Tzeetch, wings, armor, mastery lvl 3, spell familiar)

Iron Warriors CAD

HQ
60 Sorcerer (Force Sword)

Troops
50 cultists
70 Obliterator
70 Obliterator

Fast attack
170 Helldrake (Baleflamer)

This website is an abomination. I also can't tell anything from the bracket since it looks like someone screwed up making it. It doesn't show the above list going 4-2, it shows both CSM lists getting knocked out round one. Unless you've got the name of the person who went 4-2 or his list?

This is the winners bracket. It is accurate. I'm just telling you he went 4-2. This only shows the main winners brackets.

First round was a Seeding round, followed by these two brackets. It would have made no sense to have the fifth game at the end.

So from what I am reading, if I go through with a death guard army it will be close to necrons in level of "I can build an army with whatever I want and be OK in a casual environment"? Assuming it isn't all daemon engines.

I've been really tempted to start the Apostles of Contagion to go with my R&H, as I have Necrosius. Having freedom of "that model is cool, I want to use it" and not worry about the "oh wait, its terrible" part, would be pretty awesome. Looking at you Decimator engine!

As long as the Death Guard unit can take Veterans of the Long War, yeah go for it.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

This website is an abomination. I also can't tell anything from the bracket since it looks like someone screwed up making it. It doesn't show the above list going 4-2, it shows both CSM lists getting knocked out round one. Unless you've got the name of the person who went 4-2 or his list?

Let's call it rustic. Other websites are worse.

The brackets for the 6th Annual account for 5 rounds of play. Is it an elimination bracket, where players are actually removed after each round, or something else?

The first round is a Challenge round, Faction against itself to prove who is mightiest! So that is not shown sicne it really doesnt need to be. Each Faction plays against itself for the right to fight in either the Omega or Alpha bracket. that's game 1.

The Alpha and Omega bracket is only intended to show you the matchups that led to their ultimate winners after the Challenge round.

I suppose i could easily generate brackets for those other matchups that did not lead to the winners, as I have in the past, but I wanted to get the main two brackets up just so people could see it.


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 andysonic1 wrote:


It's offtopic, but I think if we can agree that free transports SM don't make Eldar balanced then we can agree a website shouldn't not be called bad just because there are still websites up from the nineties. If they have the money to put together a big tournament like this, they have $50 to hire a college student to make them a better website.

On topic: I have no idea how the bracket works. People in Round Two of the bracket aren't in Round One sometimes, it's very bizarre.

These are two entirely separate brackets. The bracket shows the actual matchups played in both top brackets. As there were DROPS during the tournament, matchups did change based on standings. So likely the reason you are unclear is because your mind isn't accounting for the possibility of drops.

The important thing to note is that there is one representative from each faction...in each bracket. those who lose along the way did continue to play, as it is an ITC tournament and their overall standing was ITC relevant.




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 winterman wrote:


The event in question limits lists to a single faction I believe.

Yup. One Ambassador per faction, in each Bracket.

The bracket begins to make sense when accounting for drops, you're right. It's still very confusing as is to anyone not involved in the tournament. It could really use more explanation, and that first Challenge round would be neat to see.

 Jancoran wrote:


The first round is a Challenge round, Faction against itself to prove who is mightiest! So that is not shown sicne it really doesnt need to be. Each Faction plays against itself for the right to fight in either the Omega or Alpha bracket. that's game 1.

The Alpha and Omega bracket is only intended to show you the matchups that led to their ultimate winners after the Challenge round.

I suppose i could easily generate brackets for those other matchups that did not lead to the winners, as I have in the past, but I wanted to get the main two brackets up just so people could see it.

I think the issue was some people did not understand what the brackets meant. Some explanatory text would solve that quickly.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


The first round is a Challenge round, Faction against itself to prove who is mightiest! So that is not shown sicne it really doesnt need to be. Each Faction plays against itself for the right to fight in either the Omega or Alpha bracket. that's game 1.

The Alpha and Omega bracket is only intended to show you the matchups that led to their ultimate winners after the Challenge round.

I suppose i could easily generate brackets for those other matchups that did not lead to the winners, as I have in the past, but I wanted to get the main two brackets up just so people could see it.

I think the issue was some people did not understand what the brackets meant. Some explanatory text would solve that quickly.

Good input.

Ive been thinking about trying EC, but is the FNP icon worth it on MSU Noise marines?

Absolutely not. It increases their points by 7 a piece at minimum squads, and that's not counting if the icon bearer gets sniped out.

Talking about EC,

I'm planning on getting a CAD to support my Kakophony + Spawn with some FW stuff.

Should I take a "normal" CAD with DP of Slaanesh, Psyker lvl 3 Wings Energetic Armor and Intoxicating Elixir (or Blissgiver) + 2x10 Cultist
Or an Iron Warrior CAD with DP of Slaanesh, Psyker lvl 3, Wings Exosqueletton and 6+ FnP
2x1 Obliterator with 6+ FnP, Tank Killer

Both option cost 440 pts.

And speaking of Obliterator, did someone try those as proxy : https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/chaos/chaos-space-marines-obliterators/

Those are great models im just using converted admech breachers

Just heard that the faq is updated.

The Alpha legion detachment gets you respawned cultists on a 3+

I'm not seeing that on the GW FAQ page.

Hmm they've posted it on the community page

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm not seeing that on the GW FAQ page.

It's only available via the links on the Community page at the moment. The Black Library links are not yet updated.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm not seeing that on the GW FAQ page.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/03/traitor-legions-faq-update-for-chaos-cultists/

This is a really good sign imo. They recognized that they did something that does nothing in game and corrected it. It's definitely not as exciting as possibly getting two units back but it's a definite upgrade to the cultist formation rule.

Good job GW. That initial FAQ was horrendous. It's not two units but it is no longer a useless rule either. I expanded my small Chaos army when Traitor Legions dropped wanting to run it as AL, so that first FAQ was a bitter pill.

Awesome, thanks guys. I kind of like the 3+ more because I don't have to worry about bringing more cultists than I have in my initial list. I also would have been ok with the reroll ruling which is a little bit better though.

Well that means I'm still running Alpha Legion under a CAD with the formations sprinkled in.

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
Talking about EC,

I'm planning on getting a CAD to support my Kakophony + Spawn with some FW stuff.

Should I take a "normal" CAD with DP of Slaanesh, Psyker lvl 3 Wings Energetic Armor and Intoxicating Elixir (or Blissgiver) + 2x10 Cultist
Or an Iron Warrior CAD with DP of Slaanesh, Psyker lvl 3, Wings Exosqueletton and 6+ FnP
2x1 Obliterator with 6+ FnP, Tank Killer

Both option cost 440 pts.

Neither is great because DP's aren't great. Ideally, you'd just take an ML3 sorc on bike with spell familiar and call it a day.

Not sure what the Energetic Armour you're refereing to on the EC DP though? Unless it's a google translate of power armour?

If I had to choose, it'd depend on how often I faced str10 ap 2/3, If you face str10 ap2 a bunch, then the EC one since it at least has the chance at being T6+ and not getting doubled out. If you face str10 AP4 (ie maticores or something) or not much str10, then probably the IW one because a 2+ goes a long way and Tank hunting Oblits as troops are pretty decent.

How are Daemon Princes not great? They've got free bonuses handed to then from VotLW like candy. Well, for some of them at least.

I've run a Night Lords Prince with storm plate a few times now and he is an indestructible monster. Rerollable 2+ armor and cover, and with telepathy and NL bonuses he's psychic shrieking entire units off the table. Just don't attack over your weight class with them, toughness 5 and a mediocre invuln means dedicated combat units will smear them without support.

If there is some Legion's Daemon Prince that isn't good, I'd call it the exception and not the rule.

 aka_mythos wrote:
If there is some Legion's Daemon Prince that isn't good, I'd call it the exception and not the rule.

With all the available relics that's simply untrue. The weakest by far is the Black Legion Prince, but even then Hatred is helping with those sweet Daemon weapons...

Depends on how you judge them. Like with everything black legion they have the potential to do the most damage per attack, but you're taking a gamble. The mace and axe are always good, but better with black legion. The problem being they need psychic support, which is also better given how you can mix marks without having to mix legions but yea, gambling. Even just just EW,AW, crusader, hatred mixed with +1T,+1S is good on a khorne prince.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
If there is some Legion's Daemon Prince that isn't good, I'd call it the exception and not the rule.

With all the available relics that's simply untrue. The weakest by far is the Black Legion Prince, but even then Hatred is helping with those sweet Daemon weapons...

Please explain to me how they aren't good?

Hey made a list with WE + Daemonkin. It's a MSU style army with the units i have and i wanted to know if it could compete in a Tournamentstyle meta.

Here's what is in my army. Everything has Mark of Khorne and VotlW.

WE Son's of Angron

Warband
Lord Jumppack with Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MB
3 Terminators 3x Kombimelta + 1 Chainfist
Helbrute MM+ PF
2x5 CSM with 1 Melta each and a Rhino
5 Raptors 1 Melta + MB
5 Havocs with 2 Plasmarifle + Rhino

Aux
6x2 Spawns

Gorepack
3 Bikers with 2 Plasmarifle
3 Bikers (Champ has LC + PF)
4x5 Fleshhounds

That's 1844 Points.

I know some units are not optimal equipped, but thats the Figures i have and i can use at the moment.

List has over 60 Models, 10 Obsec Units + another 11 Units without Obsec (that's 21 Units for scoring Objectives).

Everything start on Foot and advances forward to the Enemy lines and if possible engage some Units in Closecombat. Rhinos + Brute score my backfield objectives.

Weakness is that i have no real punch and that i have no deathstar counter. Otherwise i have a lot of small Units and i can advance really fast the first turn.

What do you think?

 aka_mythos wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
If there is some Legion's Daemon Prince that isn't good, I'd call it the exception and not the rule.

With all the available relics that's simply untrue. The weakest by far is the Black Legion Prince, but even then Hatred is helping with those sweet Daemon weapons...

Please explain to me how they aren't good?

Well, let's see...
1. World Eaters Princes get the Glaive, which should be self explanatory but I'll do it anyway. It is granting FNP and IWND and he didn't have Independent Characters to begin with. Plus he's got that free AW now which is nice but not too big a deal.
2. Death Guard Princes got a free FNP, and still have access to the Black Mace and the new Daemon Weapon that has poisoned attacks.
3. Emperor's Children Princes get DRUGS and some decent relics. Not my most favorite.
4. Iron Warriors Princes get the IWND 2+ armor and 6+++ for free. Also have some okay relics for melee like the armorbane axe or the less useful Power Maul one.
5. Night Lords Princes have one of THE best relics selections available to them, on top of the nice cover bonus.
6. Thousand Sons Princes have a Daemon Force Weapon and already proved themselves at some tournament recently with Magnus. I don't need to go further than that.
7. Black Legion Princes have a generic Hatred which helps with the potential lack of offense but otherwise have a generic EW relic. Definitely my least favorite.
8. Word Bearers Princes get the benefits to the Malefic table on top of already being Daemons, and have one of the best Warlord traits tables available to them.
9. Alpha Legion Princes are my second least favorite, but still have an icon relic when they can keep up with infiltrating Cultists, another 2+ relic, and a Daemon Weapon that grants additional attacks.

This supplement really gave the tools to make Daemon Princes a force to be reckoned with and it isn't like you face S10 weapons all the time.

But all those are good things...