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I know, they're old news at this point, but this is the first I've run into them. Out of the 20 or so people I play only one of them has Wolves, and even then he has 3 other armies so I've only played against SW two or three times in the past year. Also, I've played a lot less this year than years prior, so wasn't too concerned about actually reading the rules for them. I heard people crying about 50 attacks on the charge (which I guess a squad of 10 actually can do) and that they were broken and all that but dismissed it all as people exaggerating like they do with all new additions.

I'll start by saying I wasn't running an amazing army, a lot of DW and some RW, 2 dev squads,a nephilim, a bunch of tacticals on foot... okay it was a pretty bad list. I wasn't worried though because he too was running mostly foot infantry outside of some drop pods, a land raider, the SW flyer, and of course 2 squads of 5 wulfen with 2 TH/SS and 3 axes.

I start off just plinking at them with bolters, only to find out just now that they have 2 wounds and FNP. Tac squad gets butchered by them. My 5 black knights open up with rapid plasma, only kill 1 of the shield ones, fail a 6 inch charge. His wolfen charge, I deal a wound with overwatch, then my squad gets wiped before I make a single attack.

Okay, let's take these guys on with DW knights! Fail a 5 inch charge, get charged, fail my attacks miserably, he rocks his saves, squad gets wiped.

Get pissed off, turn the collective firepower of my entire army on them and wipe them out, but they had already killed over double their points in models.

I mean, I really don't think wulfen are that bad. If I had gotten the charge off instead of their stupid axes killing me I would've done better, he rolled his invulns on the shields really well, rolled the best FNP I've ever seen, I ignored them for the first two turns so I could blow up his land raider, I should have just had my invisible 10 termi and zeke and azzy squad go for them instead of butchering tac marines by the hundreds.... I made a lot of mistakes that I will NOT be making again.

But seriously, screw your wulfen.

They are insane. I own 10 and I never use them, even against eldar and the such, they just aren't very fun.

They kill whatever they touch, AND, they buff your army.

And since there are shields sitting in the front, their 4+ armour is made irrelevant.

Sorry for your crappy experience though.

~Mikey

Can I bring them in a khorne list? I need them apparently, 2w fnp and lots of attacks!

They're tough yeah.

You can't beat them at their own game.

Good thing you got str 8+ guns on dark angel units.

In the last game I played against SW, my 5 Sicarian Infiltrators butchered 3 Thunderpuppies before they got even to swing on the first turn after their failed charge and on the next turn did the same to the Wulfen. Granted, the death frenzy got my Infiltrators killed but it was funny nonetheless. It's not often that you beat SW in melee with a shooting army!

What the Wulfen really don't like are Rapier Quad Mortars. S8 AP4 with high volume of fire. After you make the TH/SS puppies fail just 1(!!!) save with no FNP the unit just disappears.

Yeah, the way to beat them is to hit them with lots of S8. Battle Cannons work pretty well, Missile Launchers if you can bring them. It only takes a couple wounds to drop their shields then, and after that you've got a fairly easy time dealing the rest of the damage you need to.

I do have a feeling my guard would do much better against them than my DA. My DA relies heavily on melee and psychic powers with a ton of plasma, but 2 of those things don't work well against wulfen and psychic isn't very reliable. When I finally got around to shooting his wulfen with lascannons I took them out pretty quickly, but for the first 3 turns I was taking out a dreadnought, a land raider, and a hovering flyer on a landing pad, which at the time seemed like the priority targets as I thought my melee units would stand a chance against them.

I really don't know why I continue to put faith in my terminators, this was even more proof that they really aren't that good. Normally I never get them into melee with anything, now I get them into melee and they fall flat on their face. You'd think a squad of melee only terminators that cost more than them and specialize in killing marines would, you know, be able to kill the thing they're designed to kill. Maybe I should listen to everyone and shelf my DW knights.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I do have a feeling my guard would do much better against them than my DA. My DA relies heavily on melee and psychic powers with a ton of plasma, but 2 of those things don't work well against wulfen and psychic isn't very reliable. When I finally got around to shooting his wulfen with lascannons I took them out pretty quickly, but for the first 3 turns I was taking out a dreadnought, a land raider, and a hovering flyer on a landing pad, which at the time seemed like the priority targets as I thought my melee units would stand a chance against them.

I really don't know why I continue to put faith in my terminators, this was even more proof that they really aren't that good. Normally I never get them into melee with anything, now I get them into melee and they fall flat on their face. You'd think a squad of melee only terminators that cost more than them and specialize in killing marines would, you know, be able to kill the thing they're designed to kill. Maybe I should listen to everyone and shelf my DW knights.

Feels like the Ravenwing stasis weapons would be helpful against the Wulfen. Then send in your Knights and seal club those lil buggers!

 Rotary wrote:
Can I bring them in a khorne list? I need them apparently, 2w fnp and lots of attacks!

Five attacks on the charge I could deal with. It's the fact that it's S8 AP2 I5, yes, initiative 5, that really does it

Power fists that hit on initiative (and 5 of all things) don't belong on a squad that can dish out 50 attacks. They just laugh as a 10 man squad of DW knights puts out 10 attacks like that, but only initiative 4, and only once per game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Feels like the Ravenwing stasis weapons would be helpful against the Wulfen. Then send in your Knights and seal club those lil buggers!

That's what I was thinking, but I always have the grenade launcher guy out front because plasma is generally more valuable and he died to shooting before wulfen were in range. Will definitely have him towards the back if I play against wulfen again. Either that or start using a darktalon instead of a nephilim, would also mean a potential D drop on them.

To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

 CrownAxe wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

The curse is that they're furries and that's heresy.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

So why can't my Possessed get "Cursed" then?

 CrownAxe wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

They didnt get the memo that theyre supposed to lose their grenades/shields/th/ss when they get daemonically fondled like csm are. +1 stat is all youre supposed to get!

 kingbobbito wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

The curse is that they're furries and that's heresy.

Sounds like a job for Ordo Hirsuticus!

They look like a 8-yeas old designed them. They even have super-super-attack-special that triggers when they are killed

Also:

Pardon the pun but their curse is purely fluffy.
Fluffwise they're speeding up the degeneration of the Space Wolves' gene seed, effectively putting a countdown clock on the chapter, my bet is turning the Wolves into Khorne Daemons.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
Can I bring them in a khorne list? I need them apparently, 2w fnp and lots of attacks!

Five attacks on the charge I could deal with. It's the fact that it's S8 AP2 I5, yes, initiative 5, that really does it

Power fists that hit on initiative (and 5 of all things) don't belong on a squad that can dish out 50 attacks. They just laugh as a 10 man squad of DW knights puts out 10 attacks like that, but only initiative 4, and only once per game.

Careful, the big axe only swings at Initiative 5 if they charge. Otherwise, it swings at Initiative 1.

I played my GSC against them a few weeks back, and in all honesty I don't see what the fuss is about. Drown them under a tonne of Fearless Acolytes, they'll lose models every turn and never be able to get out of combat.

... what if you don't have 60 Fearless Acolytes to play with? I dunno. Bring some as Allies?

Ill be totally honest, it just sounds like you didn't play very well, and you got bad rolls.

13 bolter shots from a space marine kills a shield wulfen. Usually a squad of five has about two of those. Then you flatten the rest with AP4 or better, S8+ if you have that.

If you have some way to slip around them and get an angle on a non-shield wulfen? You get to skip the dakka-ing through all the shields. Say, slapping them with a Thunderfire cannon, which usually easily splatters the back ranks and then maybe the two with shields survive. Maybe.

People get pissy about wulfen because it's 7th edition and everyone's conditioned to see non-deathstar melee units as laughably gakky and points inefficient. "b-but they function out of the box? You mean they don't have to have their durability buffed to the point of it being impossible to harm them with a rerollable 2++ or invisibility? So OP!!"

Just because they're not trash like possessed, terminators, or ork nobz doesn't mean they're anything better than middle of the road or close to comparable with anything like a competitive list. Getting frustrated with wulfen? Try a screamerstar, lol.

 kingbobbito wrote:
Five attacks on the charge I could deal with. It's the fact that it's S8 AP2 I5, yes, initiative 5, that really does it

ain't they s10 though?

the_scotsman wrote:
People get pissy about wulfen because it's 7th edition and everyone's conditioned to see non-deathstar melee units as laughably gakky and points inefficient. "b-but they function out of the box? You mean they don't have to have their durability buffed to the point of it being impossible to harm them with a rerollable 2++ or invisibility? So OP!!" .

Harlequins have a ton of good attacks at high initiative, function pretty well out of the box. But people don't complain because they die like flies to any type of shooting.
DW knights for instance are durable, and hit hard in melee, but with fewer attacks and at lower initiative, so that's also fine.
Wulfen have the best of both world, plus their plethora of special rules. They even have a build-in insurance: if they die first in melee, then they get free attacks, just to be sure that they make their points back. Their only weakness is S8+ shooting, but not every army has that in their arsenal.

I've fought wulfen a few times with my IG. There's a guy in my store that likes to run thunderwolves and wulfen backed up by dev squads and a fire raptor. I agree that they are absolutely beast in meelee. You're correct that IG have an easier time I believe because we can spam str8 easily and even a lot of barrage weaponry that will get around those pesky storm shields.

I've also realized that Heavy flamers are their bane because even with those storm shields in the front they're making so many saves they die fast. Keep in mind too that wulfen are very expensive. Their 4+ armor saves are their weakness as there's so much Ignores cover AP4 weaponry in this game that it's ridiculous. It's the reason I don't waste my time using stormtroopers or kitting any guardsman out with carapace.

 chrispy1991 wrote:
I've fought wulfen a few times with my IG. There's a guy in my store that likes to run thunderwolves and wulfen backed up by dev squads and a fire raptor. I agree that they are absolutely beast in meelee. You're correct that IG have an easier time I believe because we can spam str8 easily and even a lot of barrage weaponry that will get around those pesky storm shields.

I've also realized that Heavy flamers are their bane because even with those storm shields in the front they're making so many saves they die fast. Keep in mind too that wulfen are very expensive. Their 4+ armor saves are their weakness as there's so much AP4 in this game it's ridiculous. It's the reason I don't waste my time using stormtroopers or kitting any guardsman out with carapace.

Which is funny, because I consider AP 4 to be the biggest failure in the game. Mainly because of cover, but also because of the commonality of 3+.

Martel732 wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
I've fought wulfen a few times with my IG. There's a guy in my store that likes to run thunderwolves and wulfen backed up by dev squads and a fire raptor. I agree that they are absolutely beast in meelee. You're correct that IG have an easier time I believe because we can spam str8 easily and even a lot of barrage weaponry that will get around those pesky storm shields.

I've also realized that Heavy flamers are their bane because even with those storm shields in the front they're making so many saves they die fast. Keep in mind too that wulfen are very expensive. Their 4+ armor saves are their weakness as there's so much AP4 in this game it's ridiculous. It's the reason I don't waste my time using stormtroopers or kitting any guardsman out with carapace.

Which is funny, because I consider AP 4 to be the biggest failure in the game. Mainly because of cover, but also because of the commonality of 3+.

Yeah, I edited my post sorry. I meant to say there's tons of ignores cover AP4 in the game. But yes, it is ironic that AP4 weapons would suddenly be very useful against above all, a space marine army type.

Really? I'd kill for some AP4 ignore cover. Almost all of mine is AP 5.

Wulfen make me rage in general because they, along with TWC, render my entire codex pointless.

Don't you get the Heavy Flamer option on Tacticals as BA?

 Insectum7 wrote:
Don't you get the Heavy Flamer option on Tacticals as BA?

Yes, but it's suicide trying to get close enough to use them. Basically I have zero options vs SW. I can't shoot well enough to make them notice and then they just run over all my units like they aren't even there. It's real assault vs faux assault. Neither army shoots well, so that's what it comes down to. If only DC weren't a goddamn joke in 7th.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

Yeah, they don't like that to the point where they don't wipe them out of existence and do not declare SW extremis perdita, and they get away with it, with a slap on the wrist...

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To be honest, I'm still wondering what the hell the actual "Curse" is that the Wulfen carry. Clearly every Imperial unit should be Cursed because then the Imperium would be unstoppable!

The "curse" is that they are demonically corrupted. And the Imperium doesn't like that

Yeah, they don't like that to the point where they don't wipe them out of existence and do not declare SW extremis perdita, and they get away with it, with a slap on the wrist...

SW and GK are the two mary sue chapters. That's why I hates them.