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2017/04/21 05:52:00
Subject: Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
Being bigger comes with its own set of challenges as a warrior.
First one is keeping your skills sharp when only a hundred or so beings across universes and dimentions stand a hope in hell against you - it's tempting to just use your size "Because you can".
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/04/21 07:15:23
Subject: Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
Dakka Wolf wrote: Being bigger comes with its own set of challenges as a warrior.
First one is keeping your skills sharp when only a hundred or so beings across universes and dimentions stand a hope in hell against you - it's tempting to just use your size "Because you can".
More importantly you are an even bigger target for the 40k equivalent of a drone strike.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2017/04/21 10:06:51
Subject: Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
Dakka Wolf wrote: Being bigger comes with its own set of challenges as a warrior.
First one is keeping your skills sharp when only a hundred or so beings across universes and dimentions stand a hope in hell against you - it's tempting to just use your size "Because you can".
More importantly you are an even bigger target for the 40k equivalent of a drone strike.
A drone strike? What is the 40k equivalent?
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/04/21 11:26:30
Subject: Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
-Orbital bombardment. -Vortex missile strike. -good old fashioned bombing run -Assassin with a rifle. -Earthshaker artillery park opening up on your coordinates. I used to love that in EPIC. -Revenant titan tap dancing over and introducing the power of FREEM -Tau drone strike. --sudden appearance of a monolith where whats left of you used to be standing. -Deathwing terminator squad teleporting in. -One grot with a wrench. A very determined grot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/21 11:26:48
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2017/04/22 00:33:33
Subject: Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
Imperial_grunt wrote: I don't mind, they're put forward as demi-gods who dwarf the space marines in power, so I think they should be taller to match. Doesn't bother me one bit.
because I don't like the idea that they use sheer mass like an Ork. I want them to be leaders. Leaders IRL are usually tall, but there's so much more to a great human leader than being a super duper soldier.
The Primarchs tower over their Marines like a teacher over children. I think it somehow lessens the leadership qualities of the Primarchs.
Being bigger doesn't make you less of a leader.
I think the Primarchs being larger and more physically capable, as well as more strategically minded makes them perfect for their role. They were the figureheads of the Legions, not just generals and warriors supreme. They were the Emperor's sons, his chosen few - by making them bigger, they are more like gods - a morale figure. By making them physically powerful, they inspire strength and means that they can hold their own from potential attackers if their soldiers were unable to. They are the fulcrum of the legion, the embodiment of the Emperor's strength in the Legions made manifest. If the Emperor's sons couldn't fight and lead, then how could the Legions be expected to serve the Emperor?
I don't see how being bigger means they're less of a leader.
Not like freakishly large though. For example Horus kneeling height being the same height as one of his Marines.
What would be the problem in that? I'd personally scale a Primarch at over Terminator sized, and under Dreadnought sized, purely on a logistical level for mobility.
I'm not talking about the capabilities, I'm saying that too much focus on size might detract from their intangible qualities.
But why? Just because someone is bigger than another, it doesn't mean the bigger person is any less smart. Size and smarts are not mutually exclusive.
We don't want to make them too much like Orks where "biggah is bettah" The Primarchs were infused with the power of the warp at their creation. They should fight with skill, not brute mass. They're humans after all. Humans are the superior race from their POV. Only an inferior race like the Orks needs to be big to do something.
No-one's saying they're better at fighting or smarter because they're bigger. I'm saying that, by making them bigger, they act as a symbol of strength and power - a morale symbol. Not their military effectiveness - their morale boosting effects. By having them as these imposing, demi-godly beings, you can inspire loyalty from mere humans, which was the goal of the Great Crusade - to unify humanity.
And no - the Primarchs are barely human. Space Marines are hardly human - they're posthuman. Primarchs are above a Space Marine as a Space Marine is above a human.
We talk about a handful of Space Marines saving the day. A handful. Space Marines are so damn good that we only need a handful of them to do serious damage. That's a testament to their amplification of power, of how size doesn't matter.
But it stands as testament that, when even the normally powerful Space Marines can't manage, application of a single Primarch can turn the tide of a war. One Primarch can turn the tide where a hundred Space Marines could not, and a hundred Space Marines are bigger than a Primarch.
We could have more focus on their ability to manage people too. Make them more normal sized and focus on that. The Primarchs weren't super large when they were first introduced. Not sure who had a giant fetish and made them such.
Why is being giant sized and able to manage people mutually exclusive? Just because they're bigger, it doesn't mean that they're any less capable than what they'd be as a normal sized man. By being both physically and mentally awe-inspiring, you have a good leader and figurehead in one package. They're no less impressive because of their size.
The Primarchs had other qualities. Some were said to be very handsome and that's why their men admired them. Handsome giants? hmmm...
Giants can certainly be handsome. I don't see why size would detract from that. If their proportions are all fine, why would that be an issue?
For example, you talk about figureheads. Jodi Ann Paterson doesn't have to be super large in order to be a cover girl. Of course, she's a model, not a warrior, but you get my drift.
Except that the demands of being a cover girl aren't the same as being a general and figurehead of a galactic military force.
Another example I can think of is Gods of Egypt
In fact it was Gods of Egypt that made me wonder about the new Primarch fluff. Its good if you like the new fluff, and I can see your points, but it comes across as rather Orkish for me. Just looks off.
Although we disagree over accents, don't take it so personally. Opinions can differ.
David and Goliath is a poor example because if you know the history of the events, David killing Goliath isn't impressive at all. Goliath likely suffered from bone degeneration if he really was a giant, and would have relied purely upon mass to achieve victory in a melee fight, and even then it's a wonder how he survived that long because real giants have numerous health complications that should have seen anybody easily dispatch him. Slingers in the ancient old world are one of the single deadliest missile troops to exist; they take years to train like archers, but unlike them they can reliably strike targets 100 feet away. They after all were used in chattel farming to kill Lions. If Goliath didn't have a large enough shield to cover his torso and face, David could have easily killed him, possibly on the first shot even. A brittle skull meets a stone traveling at over 150 miles per hour is going to soon result in stone embedded in the frontal lobe.
The problem that yall are not realizing is that big things are terrifying because of mass. If you've ever been around large animals you know this- horses are wonderful beasts. I love them. But they could kill you with casual ease, as they often weight in excess of a thousand pounds, sometimes even a full tonne. A stallion lightly leaned against the door of my dad's truck once, the truck door was crushed and now cannot be opened. If a horse or anything else in excess of a tonne really wanted to do harm, they can rend metal.
Humans, while we are certainly more impressive than most fauna, have our limits. It is considered remarkable when we reach seven feet tall, although we often can now compared to the past courtesy of nutrition (IIRC calculations say there's something like 3,500 seven foot tall males in the continental US). The square cube law is a and it means that as stature increases, volume increases exponentially. This results in our giants often suffering from health defects as human biology struggles greatly to support something of such stature. Like how Irish Wolfhounds live cruelly short lives as their hearts die from stress of supporting such a large body. Not only do Space Marines annihlate this rule, Primarchs trample all over it. Standing before one would be a terrifying experience because you're before an entity you know that, even if it didn't have superpowers, it would still have the raw strength from the density of its muscles to kill you with a mere slap. Add the fact that Primarchs have flesh more durable than Terminator armor or how their strength is such that they can rip through tanks, and you get something that unsurprisingly causes humans in their presence to urinate.
The Primarchs aren't human. They're monsters, freaks made by the God Emperor that humanity amplified and infused with the warp to make the galaxy safe for human life again. They're impressive and horrifying. Then you add their emotional instability and limitless wrath, and you've got something you want to view from a distance when it teleports right on top of the enemy.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2017/04/30 14:28:07
Subject: Re:Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
Meh... I feel like normal sized people with that kind of power tests my suspension of disbelief. Kinda like in the reveals for the new god of war game when kratos overpowers that giant/troll, I can't help but think "no way is he strong enough to do that". By making them bigger it at least makes it half believable how strong they are. Also, their size makes them looks less human, which I like.
Chaos undivided: 8300, Tau empire: 5600, Ork speed freaks: 1750
2017/04/30 14:42:51
Subject: Re:Do you dislike the idea of the Primarchs being giant freaks?
I dislike the idea of them being active in the 40k era in the first place. Their era is in the past. And that's where they belong.
Them being giants isn't a problem for me. They're shapeshifters anyway.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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The Primarchs were infused with the power of the warp at their creation. They should fight with skill, not brute mass. They're humans after all. Humans are the superior race from their POV. Only an inferior race like the Orks needs to be big to do something.
and it means that as stature increases, volume increases exponentially. This results in our giants often suffering from health defects as human biology struggles greatly to support something of such stature. Like how Irish Wolfhounds live cruelly short lives as their hearts die from stress of supporting such a large body. Not only do Space Marines annihlate this rule, Primarchs trample all over it. Standing before one would be a terrifying experience because you're before an entity you know that, even if it didn't have superpowers, it would still have the 
