Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**skoffs**

Should we compile a "report card" for each section/unit in 8th?
eg.

HQ
Imotekh: B+ (His lighting attack and weapon are pretty impressive, but he costs a ton. If you have a lot of Flayed Ones it may be worth taking him)
Zahndrekh: B- (His ability to shut down enemy aura effects can be pretty good. Just gotta have a way to get him close)
Trazyn: D (Probably the worst of the named characters. Not really sure what his point is)
Anrakyr: C (Probably our best fighty HQ, especially if accompanying choppy infantry (then he becomes an A)... really disappointing he has no methods of transport apart from on foot.)
Orikan: B (His inv save bubble is larger and extends to CC. If taking Lychguard he's an A)
Szeras: B (Good gun, but loses points for the randomness of his buff and lack of inv, plus no way to transport)
Obyron: C (Only really useful with Zahndrekh, and even then it's tricky to get his teleport gimmick to work)
Kutlakh [FW]: B (He's a bit expensive, but his bubble of influence is HUGE. He becomes an A if taking Lychguard)
Toholk [FW]: A (If there's a key vehicle in your army that needs to stay alive, you should be taking Toholk. Good weapon, too)

Overlord: A (Hands out MWBD for cheaper than all the named options. Beatstick with a Warscythe. Keep him near Immortals and Destroyers)
Destroyer Lord: A- (Another beatstick with a Warscythe. If you take him you best take Destroyers, too, as it increases his grade to A+)
Lord: C (Cheapest HQ to fill the detachment tax at 76 points w/ Sword. Handy requirement filler, but not much use apart from that)
Cryptek: A- (Great for expensive infantry, not needed for cheaper/smaller units, eg. Immortals. Fine if filling HQ requirement, but if arbitrarily adding to Warriors... just take more Warriors)
Catacomb Command Barge: F (Too expensive for how easy it is to kill. Would need to have CHARACTER keyword to be worth taking)

TROOPS
Warriors: A- (Decent shooting, fairly survivable in big units. Best taken in bricks of 15-20. Having Cryptek or Ghost Ark nearby is good (one or the other, not both), but not required)
Immortals: A+ (Great shooting for both types of guns. Tesla better for longer distances, especially with MWBD and Stalker buff)

ELITE
Deceiver: A- (Fantastic power for alpha strikes. C'tan powers merely okay)
Nightbringer: A- (Combat powerhouse against infantry. Gotta get him across the table first, though)
Deathmarks: B- (Good counter to deepstrike shenanigans, best method of removing non-monster enemy buff HQs, but not much use after that)
Flayed Ones: B (Fantastic attack power in large numbers. "Deepstrike" is a little awkward, with a 9" charge required)
Lychguard: C (Great hitting power, made even better when taken with Anrakyr. Pity they're too slow)
Triarch Stalker: A (Amazing force multiplier. May need multiple, as will be targeted immediately. Pairs well with Doomsday Arks if taking HGC)
Praetorians: C (Good speed, shooting, and attacks, but very difficult to buff and keep alive because no Dynasty keyword)
Tomb Stalker [FW]: A (Amazing movement, pretty killy, decent price. Worth considering for back field disruption)

FAST
Destroyers: B (Fast, great shooting, but really expensive. Must be taken in units of 4+ to be viable. 3 +1 Heavy isn't bad)
Tomb Blades: B (Super fast, amazing shooting, but also pretty expensive. Very difficult to buff)
Wraiths: C (Fast and tough, but disappointingly mediocre damage)
Scarabs: A (Cheap, fast. Good for screening and chasing objectives)
Tomb Sentinel [FW]: A (Similar to its elite brother. Amazing movement, great gun, decent price. Worth considering for surprise tank killing)
Acathrites [FW]: B (Decent speed, good shooting and CC, but price to survivability ratio is a little skewed with no inv)

HEAVY
Annihilation Barge: C (Fast, alright shooting, but too easy to kill. Decent against hordes. If you're going to take one, you better be bringing other vehicles, too)
Spyder: C+ (Worth taking with Fabricator Claw if taking lots of Vehicles. Otherwise not really much use, as "Scarab Farm" army is dead)
Heavy Destroyers: B+ (Fast, great anti-vehicle shooting. Would be higher but just too expensive for a unit that must be taken in 3s to be viable. Big target for multi wound weapons)
Transcendent C'tan: D+ (Not great, especially compared to his unique elite brothers. Rarely taken)
Doomsday Ark: A (One of our best anti-vehicle units. Great with Stalker support. Try to deploy last so you can get good line of site on enemy key units)
Monolith: C+ (Glorified drop pod. Decent shooting, hard to kill, but a little overpriced.)
Tesseract Ark [FW]: A+ (Our premier anti-vehicle unit. Good at pretty much everything)
Sentry Pylon [FW]: A- (Great shooting from all three types. Due to Heavy, probably not a great idea to teleport in and shoot, with -1 to hit)

FLYERS
Night Scythe: B (Decent shooting. Can drop a single unit practically anywhere, though they cannot move after "disembarking")
Doom Scythe: D (Main gun always hits on a 4+. Fix that and maybe it might be worth the points)
Night Shroud [FW]: B+ (Cool bomb, but kind of gimmicky. Fairly survivable compared to other flyers)

TRANSPORT
Ghost Ark: C+ (Alright speed and shooting, but lack of OPEN TOPPED keyword really hurts. Not absolutely required to accompany Warriors)

FORTIFICATION
Tomb Citadel [FW]: F (No. Just get two Gauss Pylons for the price)

LORDS OF WAR
Tesseract Vault: D+ (Too expensive for how little firepower it brings compared to other Lords of War. Slightly better than Obelisk)
Obelisk: D- (Too expensive for how little firepower it brings compared to other Lords of War)
Gauss Pylon [FW]: A+ (Amazing shooting. Primary anti-LoW weapon)

etc.
Can put it in the OP for new players to find more easily when trying to figure out what best to take.

**Eyjio**

Well, is warriors are an A (I disagree myself, I think they should be a B personally) then Immortals are an A+ for sure. One of the best troop unita in the game, having exceptionally good guns and durability. The only downside is the lack of special weapons and the slight weakness (as every MEQ has) to low AP guns.

Likewise, Heavy Destroyers should probably be an A; you basically need at least 3 of them if you're not running FW, and a super fast better-than-lascannon is pretty nice.

Tesseract Vault should be a D, because it's just bad, and Deathmarks should probably be a B-: useful, but pricey for a unit unlikely to actually complete its job.

**skoffs**

Nice,
Keep it up, I'll compile them in the post above.

**vipoid**

Eyjio wrote:
Well, is warriors are an A (I disagree myself, I think they should be a B personally) then Immortals are an A+ for sure. One of the best troop unita in the game, having exceptionally good guns and durability. The only downside is the lack of special weapons and the slight weakness (as every MEQ has) to low AP guns.

I'd agree with this.

I think quite a few of our HQs might need conditional ratings. e.g. Destroyer Lord will probably be A+ if you're taking Destroyers, but B otherwise. Crypteks will probably be A or A+ if your army includes large units of Warriors, B if it only includes Immortals or minimum Warrior squads and D if you don't have either.

Overlords can probably have a straight A or A+ rating.

**MoonlightSonata**

FORTIFICATION
Tomb Citadel: (40pp/830pts for a reroll of 1s of RP and a 5++. Got worse in almost every way from its 7th edition incarnation. No. Just no. Get two Gauss Pylons instead.)

**skoffs**

TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
does a Tomb Spyder's Scarab Hive ability require Reinforcement Points?

No.
You're just replacing models from units that were previously lost during the course of the game, like you do with RP, not making new units like Daemons do.

**Claas**

Man, I tried out some tesla immortals yesterday, and fell in love. They are absolutely nasty with MWBD and a stalker against hordes.

**Xyxel**

Cryptek rated with A? Lol, he cost almost as much as 10 warriors and there will be many situations when you won't use his RP boost. I rate him B like B-etter take more warriors.
Immortals are worse than Warriors simply because it is easier to kill them (10W max) and therefor deny them any RP rolls.

Stalker and Doomsday Ark are A.

**changemod**

Xyxel wrote:
Cryptek rated with A? Lol, he cost almost as much as 10 warriors and there will be many situations when you won't use his RP boost. I rate him B like B-etter take more warriors.
Immortals are worse than Warriors simply because it is easier to kill them (10W max) and therefor deny them any RP rolls.

Stalker and Doomsday Ark are A.

He also passes out an invuln buff and is functionally a special weapon trooper. Plus you should be able to position him to buff at least two units, possibly more at deployment.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

It might be a bit to early to fill in the report card yet, and it will always be difficult to mark each individual unit when many of them are much better in combination with other things. Tesla immortals are pretty good on their own but awesome when combined with an overlord for MWBD.

I'll rate the DDA an A though. Everyone I have faced has been pretty shocked when a scary anti tank cannon suddenly jumps forward and starts shredding infantry.

I think I'd be tempted to give the humble warrior an A too. Really solid for their points and can benefit from loads of buffs.

Orikan is an A for me. Needs to have infantry to buff of course.

I think Heavy Destroyers are great for the points but often being the only good target for D6 damage weapons makes them worse in practice.

Xyxel wrote:
Cryptek rated with A? Lol, he cost almost as much as 10 warriors and there will be many situations when you won't use his RP boost. I rate him B like B-etter take more warriors.
.

Is this based on in game experience or the math hammering of something that can't really be math hammered? In my experience, if your taking 2 big infantry units or 3+ medium units, a Cryptek (Orikan) is A for auto-include.

**Xyxel**

@changemod
yes, you can buff two units but 3" range is very limiting for our already slow troopers. Tried that with 2x 20 Warriors and you have to strech those units to be flexible in movement.

@Moosatronic
yes, based on 8 games. Smart opponent won't shoot 20 warriors if he can't kill it outright. = RP bonus waisted
Small arms fire focused on them won't be bothered with 5++ save, it's enough to use AP-1 or 0 dakka to do the trick.

Currently I'm playing with one 20 Warriors blob as a bait. If enemy shoot them with 1-damage dakka, then he don't shoot it at my vehicles which are easily destroyed with T6. Then enemy is left only with multi-damage weapons to shoot my quantum shielding. Basically there is no good target for anti-tank weapons against Necrons, unless you bring Destroyers.

**vipoid**

Xyxel wrote:
Cryptek rated with A? Lol, he cost almost as much as 10 warriors and there will be many situations when you won't use his RP boost. I rate him B like B-etter take more warriors.

I was just trying to illustrate how their ratings may change based on what units you take.

Xyxel wrote:
Immortals are worse than Warriors simply because it is easier to kill them (10W max) and therefor deny them any RP rolls.

They're less durable than warriors in terms of numbers, sure, but they also have much better guns and also better saves.

**torblind**

We should also write out detailed tactical advice on groups of units, (and which units not to combine) , eg

D lord and one or two HD units

Anrakyr and lychguard

Screens - which units to use when and where to position them if you go first or second

When deathmarks are best (against weaker AM HQs perhaps - not so much nid monsters who are likely above 10w anyway

Different kinds of Deceiver bombs, when to use which

What units it's good to pull through the monolith against what targets

**vipoid**

Would it be worth starting a new Necron Tactica thread for 8th do you think?

**torblind**

Xyxel wrote:

@Moosatronic
yes, based on 8 games. Smart opponent won't shoot 20 warriors if he can't kill it outright. = RP bonus waisted

Small arms fire focused on them won't be bothered with 5++ save, it's enough to use AP-1 or 0 dakka to do the trick.

This is a common misconception. This is not a a waste, this is your opponent adapting to your strengths instead of the other way around. Plan on this and use it to your tactical advantage.

**skoffs**

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
It might be a bit to early to fill in the report card yet

Can be regularly updated as we see how the meta develops.
This is for new players who can't tell what's worth taking at first glance.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
Would it be worth starting a new Necron Tactica thread for 8th do you think?

We talked about doing so, but I think the consensus was "wait for codex".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
We should also write out detailed tactical advice on groups of units, (and which units not to combine) ,

Combos can be added to the OP as well.

**Tokhuah**

I think people are downgrading Anrykar for his cherry on top Pyrrhian ability. If it was limited to be defensive by rule then it would not be perceived as a downside, to pyrrhia-phrase: "If your favorite shooty unit is forced into CC by an enemy unit they get an additional attack." MWBD with Tessla is Immortal...

**CthuluIsSpy**

Tokhuah wrote:
I think people are downgrading Anrykar for his cherry on top Pyrrhian ability. If it was limited to be defensive by rule then it would not be perceived as a downside, to pyrrhia-phrase: "If your favorite shooty unit is forced into CC by an enemy unit they get an additional attack." MWBD with Tessla is Immortal...

Also, you can charge after using rapid fire weapons now.
So if you have a block of 20 warriors, you get 40 shots, followed by 40 attacks. You are probably going to kill something.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Tokhuah wrote:
I think people are downgrading Anrykar for his cherry on top Pyrrhian ability. If it was limited to be defensive by rule then it would not be perceived as a downside, to pyrrhia-phrase: "If your favorite shooty unit is forced into CC by an enemy unit they get an additional attack." MWBD with Tessla is Immortal...

Yup. He's great at making your shooty guys hold up in combat and using MWBD. 20 Warriors with MWBD rapid firing then charging is 80 S4 attacks hitting on 2's. If you put him with Lychguard there is a good chance of them overkilling or just being a bigger waste of points if they don't make combat, the situations in which Anrakyrs makes a useful difference are limited.

Orikan and Anrakyr are probably my top choice for a pair of HQs to support an infantry horde.

**Kuguar6**

Ghost ark can transport all necrons characters. So all hq have transport option.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Kuguar6 wrote:
Ghost ark can transport all necrons characters. So all hq have transport option.

It's about time someone tried to put sketch out what the old Royal Court disco inferno (or whatever it used to be called) looks like in 8th. My guess is very bad.

**Requizen**

Kuguar6 wrote:
Ghost ark can transport all necrons characters. So all hq have transport option.

Except Anrakyr and Szeras, who lack the <Dynasty> keyword and therefore cannot use it.

And also you can't put a unit of dudes in there with them unless you use the somewhat janky Understrength rule.

**wombis**

In regards to the sentry pylon using it's teleportation matrix to deploy, does that count as having moved for the purpose of heavy weapons?

**sieGermans**

wombis wrote:
In regards to the sentry pylon using it's teleportation matrix to deploy, does that count as having moved for the purpose of heavy weapons?

Regrettably, yes.

**Tokhuah**

I have seen people mention the Gauss Pylon as being uber. It looks like it costs 475 points, which would seem to price it out of a 2,000 point build. Am I missing something?

**skoffs**

Tokhuah wrote:
I have seen people mention the Gauss Pylon as being uber. It looks like it costs 475 points, which would seem to price it out of a 2,000 point build. Am I missing something?

Why would it being 475 points mean you couldn't take it in a 2000 point list?

**Requizen**

Tokhuah wrote:
I have seen people mention the Gauss Pylon as being uber. It looks like it costs 475 points, which would seem to price it out of a 2,000 point build. Am I missing something?

That's only ~70 points more than 2 Doomsday Arks and people are bringing 4 of those in regular lists.

For a bit more than 2 DDArks, you're getting: Higher Toughness, 2 more Wounds, better save, Invuln (that it passes to nearby allies), Reserve ability, similar number of shots (average, though it trades the Array shooting), higher average damage (especially against Titanic), better shooting against Flyers (most Xenos vehicles, lots of special units like Flyrants and Greater Daemons), better Wounding, etc. It's almost insane how much better it is. It will, on average, I believe, remove a vehicle per turn and has the ability to one shot a Baneblade Variant with no real problem. It should one shot a Wraithknight with no Shield on an average roll.

The downside is that if you go against foot-heavy lists, things with no monsters/vehicles, it will be a lot less effective since the secondary fire type isn't as good as the Flayer Arrays. But at this point in time there seems to be an abundance of big models out there. And also, our Infantry and other Vehicles are really good at dealing with those types of lists anyway, so it's no big deal.

It's worth the points at this point in time. So is the Tesseract Ark, in my opinion.

**Commissar Arkham**

After reading this tactics thread, I tried to design a list based on what was considered good. Any advice or suggestions are appreciated!

Spoiler:

My plan wih the list was to put an overlord with each immortal unit, and Toholk with the warriors. Toholk would buff the stalker, since it degrades much faster than the gauss pylon. Scarabs would screen the pylon and the stalker. I know Overlords are better with warscythes, but I didn't have the points for those since I wanted to get another CP by adding an outrider detachment. I could get rid of an overlord, and add the scarabs to the battalion. Then I'd have the points to give my other overlord a warscythe and add 8 more scarabs, to use as screens and objective grabbers, or 5 more tesla immortals and 2 more scarabs.

**MoonlightSonata**

It's interesting that almost all of the FW units are at least an A grade with the exception of the insane dud of the Tomb Citadel. It's time to go back to attempting to assemble the rest of my Tomb Stalkers and the Sentinel AKA experiencing a centipede based fever dream.

**Tokhuah**

skoffs wrote:
Tokhuah wrote:
I have seen people mention the Gauss Pylon as being uber. It looks like it costs 475 points, which would seem to price it out of a 2,000 point build. Am I missing something?
Why would it being 475 points mean you couldn't take it in a 2000 point list?

Sorry if I was overly definitive. Using 25% of a 2,000 point build for one model seems extremely risky. At least with x2 DDA you can split them up so they cannot be targeted by the same units (and I still need more proof that taking x2 of those is a good idea).