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 Gamgee wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
AHA!!!!!

Guilliman' armour includes life support systems.....

What's the betting that's what was/is in Cawl's box? A life support armour fit for a Primarch, or at least the main component?

And for those kvetching that Guilliman's already well established tactical nous sees Chaos get the poop kicked out of it?

Remember Calth? 'Member? I 'Member...that was the single best chance to wreck Ultramar. Sneak attack from a totally unexpected foe, already at anchor amongst a supposedly friendly fleet. Ultramarine's very much caught with their pants down? What chance did Chaos have here once Guilliman is out and about? Sure. There may be Chaos Marines who fought in the Heresy there. But alongside 10,000 years of experience, they've also got 10,000 years of absolute pants-on-head insanity to boot. Of course he wipes the floor with them. Wouldn't be a very good return if he's all derpy after his snooze, would it!

Which is exactly why bringing back loyalist primarchs was a daft idea.

Exactly. One of two things happen. The Space Marine fluff insanity goes insane with them basically curb stomping the galaxy. Since there is no credible threat to a primarch except another primarch or deamon prince or greater deamon they then have to make those. Then the xenos die or they get something to fight back or somehow manage to not get curb stomped off the map and then the fans of primarchs get mad.

It makes a silly game less about armies and politics and intrigue between them and the ever darkening of the universe to fan spank about primarchs until the end of real life time.

I hope GW shows some story restraint and show the primarchs as fallible and able to be defearted by things other than the biggest of threats, but I highly HIGHLY doubt it. It's Age of the Emperor in everything but name only.

This is my problem too. I liked when Primarchs, and the entire heresy, was just myths and legends as backstory. maybe they happened, maybe they didn't. This now becomes a full-scale "who has the bigger toys", and less about actual warfare than a few Marvel-type heroes stomping across the galaxy. Not everyone needs to have a super-character, and it's basically turning into that I think.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
AHA!!!!!

Guilliman' armour includes life support systems.....

What's the betting that's what was/is in Cawl's box? A life support armour fit for a Primarch, or at least the main component?

And for those kvetching that Guilliman's already well established tactical nous sees Chaos get the poop kicked out of it?

Remember Calth? 'Member? I 'Member...that was the single best chance to wreck Ultramar. Sneak attack from a totally unexpected foe, already at anchor amongst a supposedly friendly fleet. Ultramarine's very much caught with their pants down? What chance did Chaos have here once Guilliman is out and about? Sure. There may be Chaos Marines who fought in the Heresy there. But alongside 10,000 years of experience, they've also got 10,000 years of absolute pants-on-head insanity to boot. Of course he wipes the floor with them. Wouldn't be a very good return if he's all derpy after his snooze, would it!

Which is exactly why bringing back loyalist primarchs was a daft idea.

Exactly. One of two things happen. The Space Marine fluff insanity goes insane with them basically curb stomping the galaxy. Since there is no credible threat to a primarch except another primarch or deamon prince or greater deamon they then have to make those. Then the xenos die or they get something to fight back or somehow manage to not get curb stomped off the map and then the fans of primarchs get mad.

It makes a silly game less about armies and politics and intrigue between them and the ever darkening of the universe to fan spank about primarchs until the end of real life time.

I hope GW shows some story restraint and show the primarchs as fallible and able to be defearted by things other than the biggest of threats, but I highly HIGHLY doubt it. It's Age of the Emperor in everything but name only.

This is a legitimate fear of mine, fuelled by the fact that at the end of the day GW is a business and FW has demonstrated that Primarchs sell.

There's the definite risk of turning something genuinely beautiful and unique into AoS...in spaaaace.

Not a certainty by any means, but a risk.

Guys, one Primarch isn't going to wreck anything. There were 18 at one point with Big E and they still couldn't conquer the whole galaxy easily. It took centuries in the Great Crusade.

One Primarch means a story shift, not a radical beating of all the enemies of Mankind.

Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Guys, one Primarch isn't going to wreck anything. There were 18 at one point with Big E and they still couldn't conquer the whole galaxy easily. It took centuries in the Great Crusade.

One Primarch means a story shift, not a radical beating of all the enemies of Mankind.

19!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Guys, one Primarch isn't going to wreck anything. There were 18 at one point with Big E and they still couldn't conquer the whole galaxy easily. It took centuries in the Great Crusade.

One Primarch means a story shift, not a radical beating of all the enemies of Mankind.

I hope your right... but I think they will make all primarchs return. Maybe not this year but over the years as time goes by. What happens then?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

I am hoping it causes a schism or something and splits the Imperium into two, sort of a parallel between the Eastern/Western Roman Empire at its decline. Some chapters stay loyal to the Imperium, others go with Guilliman to form Imperium Secundus or w/e.

Wayniac wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

I am hoping it causes a schism or something and splits the Imperium into two, sort of a parallel between the Eastern/Western Roman Empire at its decline. Some chapters stay loyal to the Imperium, others go with Guilliman to form Imperium Secundus or w/e.

That would also be A-OK with me honestly.

That would be interesting if it happens.

...already speculated that it might happen!

Will it?

Maybe, maybe not!

But anything that finally gets the Tau destroyed in 40K can't be a bad thing, right?

Seriously - we're going to need to wait just a bit before finding out!

IF the bit about 'life support systems' is true, they've already given RG a weak point.

I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up back in stasis by the end of all this...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
AHA!!!!!

Guilliman' armour includes life support systems.....

What's the betting that's what was/is in Cawl's box? A life support armour fit for a Primarch, or at least the main component?

And for those kvetching that Guilliman's already well established tactical nous sees Chaos get the poop kicked out of it?

Remember Calth? 'Member? I 'Member...that was the single best chance to wreck Ultramar. Sneak attack from a totally unexpected foe, already at anchor amongst a supposedly friendly fleet. Ultramarine's very much caught with their pants down? What chance did Chaos have here once Guilliman is out and about? Sure. There may be Chaos Marines who fought in the Heresy there. But alongside 10,000 years of experience, they've also got 10,000 years of absolute pants-on-head insanity to boot. Of course he wipes the floor with them. Wouldn't be a very good return if he's all derpy after his snooze, would it!

Which is exactly why bringing back loyalist primarchs was a daft idea.

Exactly. One of two things happen. The Space Marine fluff insanity goes insane with them basically curb stomping the galaxy. Since there is no credible threat to a primarch except another primarch or deamon prince or greater deamon they then have to make those. Then the xenos die or they get something to fight back or somehow manage to not get curb stomped off the map and then the fans of primarchs get mad.

It makes a silly game less about armies and politics and intrigue between them and the ever darkening of the universe to fan spank about primarchs until the end of real life time.

I hope GW shows some story restraint and show the primarchs as fallible and able to be defearted by things other than the biggest of threats, but I highly HIGHLY doubt it. It's Age of the Emperor in everything but name only.

This is a legitimate fear of mine, fuelled by the fact that at the end of the day GW is a business and FW has demonstrated that Primarchs sell.

There's the definite risk of turning something genuinely beautiful and unique into AoS...in spaaaace.

Not a certainty by any means, but a risk.

Aaand we had to drag-in the other game into the argument. Say whatever excuse you want, but you guys are obssessed with it (and bashing it). As someone else said: it's just a story shift. Primarchs have been active in the lore even prior to this current events. Now things are just going to shake up a tiny little bit (something needed to keep fresh the setting, without destroying it, of course). If what we know of GSII is true (eldar being even more divided) then it may turn out that things go further south(east) for the Imperium, so don't get you panties in a twist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
...already speculated that it might happen!

Will it?

Maybe, maybe not!

But anything that finally gets the Tau destroyed in 40K can't be a bad thing, right?

Seriously - we're going to need to wait just a bit before finding out!

IF the bit about 'life support systems' is true, they've already given RG a weak point.

I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up back in stasis by the end of all this...

So he's the Ultramarines version of Bjorn now? Only with less storytelling and more blood and gore (his)?

 Gamgee wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Guys, one Primarch isn't going to wreck anything. There were 18 at one point with Big E and they still couldn't conquer the whole galaxy easily. It took centuries in the Great Crusade.

One Primarch means a story shift, not a radical beating of all the enemies of Mankind.

I hope your right... but I think they will make all primarchs return. Maybe not this year but over the years as time goes by. What happens then?

The it'll be stalemate. It'll be chaos and the Imperium duking it out until kingdom come, or to put it another way, business as usual.

The "only a primarch cam beat a primarch" so the Imperials Are going to curb stomp everything is pretty funny

Are we forgetting that that are other Primarchs that have been active all this time without Chaos curb stomping anything!

Sadly after the close-up, I dislike Gullyman even more. Just not a good looking model. Cypher and the other fella look fine (quite good actually). I dislike the filigree (though part of me thinks it's so obnoxious you could easily kit-bash this guy as some super-duper Thousand Sons warlord).

The pose is terrible, and sadly the foot being on the weird rock means that this guy is uni-pose and can't be mounted on something else. It looks like it would take a lot of work to mount him on a normal unobtrusive flat base. That's a real shame. It's too silly of a pose to see on every single Gullyman for the next 5-10 years.

"What's up Gullyman?"

"Not much bro, just doing the splits between some sweet ass boulders...ya know...the usual"

 Gamgee wrote:

Exactly. One of two things happen. The Space Marine fluff insanity goes insane with them basically curb stomping the galaxy. Since there is no credible threat to a primarch except another primarch or deamon prince or greater deamon they then have to make those. Then the xenos die or they get something to fight back or somehow manage to not get curb stomped off the map and then the fans of primarchs get mad.

It makes a silly game less about armies and politics and intrigue between them and the ever darkening of the universe to fan spank about primarchs until the end of real life time.

I hope GW shows some story restraint and show the primarchs as fallible and able to be defearted by things other than the biggest of threats, but I highly HIGHLY doubt it. It's Age of the Emperor in everything but name only.

It feel like they've been ramping up to bigger and bigger heroes. It seems like it's just going to come down to "what primarch-level heavy hitters will each faction get?" Obviously chaos gets Daemon primarchs, and we now have precedent for new eldar avatars so GW can crank out a whole slew of increasingly powerful ones if need be. But what about the other Xenos races? Will Orks get Beast-level super Orks? Souped-up c'tan shards for Necrons? One-off Mega-battlesuits for Tau (Farsight custom riptide maybe)? How crazy can we get?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

So basically you want it to stop being the Imperium?

Genuinely lost for words...and not in a good way!

All I have to say is that Guilliman better be usable by all Space Marine Chapters and that the formations in the book better not be Ultramarine exclusive. I suppose this is where we will be getting the Ultramarines equivalent to the different detachments from Angels of Death. Good for them, but it still sucks to be a Black Templars or Crimson Fists player. Still no specialized formations or detachments for us. :(

 Yodhrin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

So basically you want it to stop being the Imperium?

Yes, or split into two Imperiums.

Gulliman is a terrible model. . Way too big and bizarre proportion. Bringing back loyalist primarchs is such a terrible idea imo. The other two are cools though

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

So basically you want it to stop being the Imperium?

Yes, or split into two Imperiums.

I could see this happening. Guilman wasn't on great terms with the high lords of terra last time, and things can't be much better now. I could see there being a schism with all loyalist marines on one side and the rest of the Imperium on the other.

How crazy can I get? How about this.

Farsight: The Emperor never told you what happened to the lost primarch.
Roboute Gulliman: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Farsight: No, I am the primarch.
Roboute Guliman: No that's not true!!!! That's impossible!
Farsight: You underestimate the power of the Tau side.


Hahah.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

So basically you want it to stop being the Imperium?

Which has been kind of the motivation for Guilliman with the whole Imperium Secundus mess. He's a power-hungry bastard, who began making grimdark gak go running rampant in his own personal empire even before the days of the heresy, so I'll doubt ten millenia of house arrest have done much to settle his tendencies.

 Gamgee wrote:
How crazy can I get? How about this.

Farsight: The Emperor never told you what happened to the lost primarch.
Roboute Gulliman: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Farsight: No, I am the primarch.
Roboute Guliman: No that's not true!!!! That's impossible!
Farsight: You underestimate the power of the Tau side.


Hahah.

Please stop trying to make everything about the Tau...

Someone asked how crazy it could get so I gave my personal take on the matter. I assure you I would be flabbergasted as anyone if that happened. Basically it's a joke. If that ever happens in 40k the shark has jumped SO far.

I see this as one way for them to turn up the heat between Imperium vs. Imperium battles. As schisms break out between conservative elements and those rallying around the returned Primarchs.

They finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! God damn you all to hell!

So loyalist Primarchs in 40K. I don't like this, I don't like this one bit. If they resurrect the Emperor, i'm fething done.



Now, for the models.

The GK guy is nice. Looks really good in fact.

Cypher is just amazing. Stellar model. I really love his face.

And the big guy. Now, apart the fact that it exists at all, I like this model. I like it a lot more than FW Primarchs in fact. While the FW Primarchs are fine pieces of art, I have never liked them as Warhammer models. They look like space marines done in different scale and different style. They look out of place next to other GW miniatures. If Primarchs really have to be stupidly large ridiculous überdudes, then this new model is how I'd expect them to look in Warhammer. It actually looks like it belongs with the other models. (My only nitpick is that the model's head looks oddly detached due it being so small and set so high. A small head is fine, but it would look better with a slightly shorter neck, partially recessed in the armour.)

The question is whether to convert it into Dorn, Russ, or some sort of a daemon prince? Using it as Guilliman is obviously out of the question.

Not even GW artists could be arsed to respect Guillaume. Compare his paintjob against the one on the GK (very nice) and Cypher (give the painter an honourary Slayer Sword right now!). Cypher's pose and sculpt quality make him a thousand times more impressive than the freaking(ly huge) Primarch next to him, something GW doesn't really seem to get.

I have my ears firmly plugged when it comes to 40k's advancing timeline already - I'm just not enjoining the current fluff OR writing - *and* I'm in the camp that wants the Heresyto remain mythologicalm sooo just one more (really big and disproportionate) thing to ignore.

PS: That flaming sword IS really nice, though.

Welp.
Into idiotic BS we go.

 Rainyday wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Exactly. One of two things happen. The Space Marine fluff insanity goes insane with them basically curb stomping the galaxy. Since there is no credible threat to a primarch except another primarch or deamon prince or greater deamon they then have to make those. Then the xenos die or they get something to fight back or somehow manage to not get curb stomped off the map and then the fans of primarchs get mad.

It makes a silly game less about armies and politics and intrigue between them and the ever darkening of the universe to fan spank about primarchs until the end of real life time.

I hope GW shows some story restraint and show the primarchs as fallible and able to be defearted by things other than the biggest of threats, but I highly HIGHLY doubt it. It's Age of the Emperor in everything but name only.

It feel like they've been ramping up to bigger and bigger heroes. It seems like it's just going to come down to "what primarch-level heavy hitters will each faction get?" Obviously chaos gets Daemon primarchs, and we now have precedent for new eldar avatars so GW can crank out a whole slew of increasingly powerful ones if need be. But what about the other Xenos races? Will Orks get Beast-level super Orks? Souped-up c'tan shards for Necrons? One-off Mega-battlesuits for Tau (Farsight custom riptide maybe)? How crazy can we get?

Honestly... I'm not sure. Anything or nothing could happen depending on how biased the fluff and lore gets with primarchs back. Safe bet is Farsight and/or Shadowsun in some sort of super suits. Necrons have c'tan shards. Orks dunno.