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Okay, so anyway. What's the best guess for what detachments or formations will be in here? I wouldn't be surprised if it is three Decurion Type detachments, one for DA/Fallen, one for UM, and one for GK. Then a couple of formations for each. Potentially similar rules to what Celestine and whatnot received that allow them to be used as an HQ in any army of the Imperium. Guilliman will probably have something like that, but he will be usable as an LoW for everyone. Relics for Fallen and UM.

All these people hating on the Ultramarines for getting the first plastic loyalist Primarch and I don't even want him as the model is terrible. Sure having 40k rules for him will be super awesome as my FW version will be usable in 40k now, but the model is hideous.

I would be very surprised if we do not alternate between a loyalist and traitor Primarch model over the coming months with Abaddon standing in for Horus.

 Carnikang wrote:
I'm actually hopeful that Abbadon will get just an updated model, not something that has made him xbawkshueg. I really like him as a character just being a really old, powerful, and shenanigany space marine.

I'm still hoping that he is part of a quintiumvirate box with him as a slightly bulked out terminator, and then his 4 chosen (one from each god)

GoatboyBeta wrote:
That would be my preference as well. But I have a feeling GW would not have shown his existing model in part1 if he was getting an straight update in the same vein as Kharn and Ahriman.

Alternatively, it would be really hard to have a story in which Abbadon has such a central role and not include him in art or photos. If GW is not ready to release or show off a new model, that means the old one has to be used.

Please ignore this post. Thank you for your cooperation.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:
I'm actually hopeful that Abbadon will get just an updated model, not something that has made him xbawkshueg. I really like him as a character just being a really old, powerful, and shenanigany space marine.

I'm still hoping that he is part of a quintiumvirate box with him as a slightly bulked out terminator, and then his 4 chosen (one from each god)

GoatboyBeta wrote:
That would be my preference as well. But I have a feeling GW would not have shown his existing model in part1 if he was getting an straight update in the same vein as Kharn and Ahriman.

Alternatively, it would be really hard to have a story in which Abbadon has such a central role and not include him in art or photos. If GW is not ready to release or show off a new model, that means the old one has to be used.

Wow, I really like that Terminator Idea, that would be cool as hell!

I'd really like Abaddon to be just a fancy Terminator but for he and Robert Guilliman to be reasonably well matched despite the size difference. I'm also hopeful that they'll give Abaddon a helmet this time.

EDIT: Or Abaddon could feed Greater Daemons to one of his Terminator bodyguards until they turn into an enormous multi-headed dragon for him to ride. That way they could make him a huge model without turning him into a Daemon Prince or whatever.

mfw I see Robot Girlyman model

In all seriousness, this is beyond fantastic... I can see that I'll need to be catching up on my 40k knowledge very soon!

Looky Likey wrote: but the model is hideous.

No the model is not hideous. Hideous is what I would say minis from the 80s and 90s compared to now. I am sure people can come up with more hideous minis. Is it great? I don't think so. Good? It's slowly growing on me once I seen the photo shops. Thing is there are far more hideous minis that this. Your opinion is valid though but I think you are on the hate train just like you were claiming with all the other people on hating Ultramarines.

Admittedly my first thoughts upon seeing Guilliman's model:

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/e/e1/Scout_dominationsnp05.wav?t=20100625232715

Still think he's at Papa Smurf levels of sexiness, though...

Davor wrote:

Looky Likey wrote: but the model is hideous.

No the model is not hideous. Hideous is what I would say minis from the 80s and 90s compared to now. I am sure people can come up with more hideous minis. Is it great? I don't think so. Good? It's slowly growing on me once I seen the photo shops. Thing is there are far more hideous minis that this. Your opinion is valid though but I think you are on the hate train just like you were claiming with all the other people on hating Ultramarines.

It's all opinion, dude. Personally, I think this model is genuinely as ugly as that ancient Nagash model. I literally don't have words for how horrendous I find it. I'm sure it's very technically accomplished, but it's still horrific in my eyes.

Davor wrote:

Looky Likey wrote: but the model is hideous.

No the model is not hideous. Hideous is what I would say minis from the 80s and 90s compared to now. I am sure people can come up with more hideous minis. Is it great? I don't think so. Good? It's slowly growing on me once I seen the photo shops. Thing is there are far more hideous minis that this. Your opinion is valid though but I think you are on the hate train just like you were claiming with all the other people on hating Ultramarines.

Comparing models from different eras to now is perfectly valid past time, but ultimately self defeating as sculpting has improved, casting/production has improved, and even painting has improved. Modern models have far more options than the often flat sculpted stuff from the 80s. Compare it other premium character models of a similar price bracket from the last few years and what is much worse?

It is the design decisions rather than limitations of the time, tools, or even staff that has me annoyed with the new Guilliman model, the face in particular is just plain ugly. Yes I could put the much better looking helmet on the model, but I think most would want their Warlord, Primarch of their Legion to be bare headed. Then there is the excessive detailing on the model. I'm sure a different style of paint job on the 40k model would help, but currently all the detail looks soft and wishy washy.

Have to say though. AM's ability to invent is underestimated a lot. After all they quickly came up with new armour and sword for Guillimann and cannot have had all that much time to do it!

Yes, the filigree/scroll work is an issue here - it is almost as if GW was afraid to have too many 'blank spaces' on a model this big?

Though really it would have been fine (better?) without a lot of that extra fiddly detail.

tneva82 wrote:
Have to say though. AM's ability to invent is underestimated a lot. After all they quickly came up with new armour and sword for Guillimann and cannot have had all that much time to do it!

It's not a new sword, it's one of God-Emperor's swords.

Roboute Guilliman returns to the Imperium after several millennia in stasis, resurrected by arcane Imperial artifice and fell xenos sorcery (which we’re pretty sure some in the Imperium are very much not ok with). His suit of armour is a marvel to behold – the pinnacle of power-armoured technology (courtesy of Belisarius Cawl) while his blade is no less than one of the blazing swords once carried by the Emperor of Mankind himself. Crowning his armour is a celestial halo, an obvious symbol of the Emperor’s blessing, perhaps gifted by some other hero of the Imperium..

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, the filigree/scroll work is an issue here - it is almost as if GW was afraid to have too many 'blank spaces' on a model this big?

Though really it would have been fine (better?) without a lot of that extra fiddly detail.

GW has mastered the "art" of greeble.
The sad part is, if half of that stuff wasn't there, then we'd have people complaining about a lack of detail, because GW has trained people to expect rivets, scrolls, filigree, skulls, etc., to be all over a model.

One of the emperor's swords? What, did he have multiple? Is there a closet with a bunch of swords in the imperial palace, complete with a fedora? While humanity was building starships, the Emperor was studying the blade.

Anyway, crazy thought, but what if one of the Emperor's swords was a Crone sword? They can change shape, can't they? And going by the Void Dragon, the Emperor is not above using alien tech.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, the filigree/scroll work is an issue here - it is almost as if GW was afraid to have too many 'blank spaces' on a model this big?

Though really it would have been fine (better?) without a lot of that extra fiddly detail.

GW has mastered the "art" of greeble.
The sad part is, if half of that stuff wasn't there, then we'd have people complaining about a lack of detail, because GW has trained people to expect rivets, scrolls, filigree, skulls, etc., to be all over a model.

The problem is flat panels are a bitch: either you make several cool looking blends do make it look good, or edge highlight all around it, or it'll look just like that, a flat panel.

Huh, hadn't noticed before, but it looks like Girlyman is more apt a nickname than previously believed given the "shapely" form of Rowboat's chestplate there.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Huh, hadn't noticed before, but it looks like Girlyman is more apt a nickname than previously believed given the "shapely" form of Rowboat's chestplate there.

Heh, I guess we'll get girl marines afterall

I think the FW Guillimon mini is much better than this one from GW. I might get Gathering Storm 2 and 3 for the story, as I rather liked GS I.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
One of the emperor's swords? What, did he have multiple? Is there a closet with a bunch of swords in the imperial palace, complete with a fedora? While humanity was building starships, the Emperor was studying the blade.

Tens of thousands of planets under his command... leading billions of warriors during the Great Crusade... and he should only have one close combat weapon? What if it breaks? Or needs maintenance? Does he just sit out that battle because he forgot to pack a spare? Even if the Emperor was just some foppish, flabby, middle aged inbred noble who never saw combat, he wouldn't have just one of any weapon.

Or he could use a gun like everyone else. Or just make their heads explode with mind bullets. You can't break a sword if you don't use it constantly, and someone like the Emperor should be able to have a really tough and reliable blade that would never break.

 warboss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
One of the emperor's swords? What, did he have multiple? Is there a closet with a bunch of swords in the imperial palace, complete with a fedora? While humanity was building starships, the Emperor was studying the blade.

Tens of thousands of planets under his command... leading billions of warriors during the Great Crusade... and he should only have one close combat weapon? What if it breaks? Or needs maintenance? Does he just sit out that battle because he forgot to pack a spare? Even if the Emperor was just some foppish, flabby, middle aged inbred noble who never saw combat, he wouldn't have just one of any weapon.

Not just swords either. He used to carry an awesome version of a Custodes Guardian Spear, which he gave to Constantin Valdor when he became the custodian-in-chief.

That sounds cool, actually. I don't mind him having a variety of weapons, but having a bunch of the same close combat weapon made for him seems redundant, especially when he already has access to firearms and psi powers, as well as an army.

Now, what I could imagine is that he has a bunch of trophies that he accumulated from his conquests. He doesn't really use them, but they could be used as they are still perfectly functioning weapons.

Been trying to keep up with this thread as much as I can, so sorry if this has been covered...

Do we know what Cypher is up to?

Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)

The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.

 Kirasu wrote:
Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)

The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.

Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.

 ProtoClone wrote:
Been trying to keep up with this thread as much as I can, so sorry if this has been covered...

Do we know what Cypher is up to?

The usual, trying to get back to Earth. He's just taking a short cut this time apparently and doing so with his own bus card.

Davor wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)

The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.

Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.

Okay, shut down all threads in news and rumors then. I'm responding based on what was posted from those that read parts of the new book and based on the precedence from the previous 2 books and WFB End Times. All of those are extremely cartoonish and comic bookish in their story.

Davor wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)

The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.

Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.

"Man you people are just getting upset over nothing, you'd have to be mental to think GW would blow up a whole setting."

"Jeezo, check out all the Chicken Littles in here - sure, they blew up the setting, but all this 'bubblehammer/realms' stuff can't be right, and even if it is we should give it a chance."

"Alright so the first few novels have been a bit lacklustre and they can't seem to to stop randomly inserting the letter 'y' into things, but it's only been a few months give them a chance."

"OK so this 40K stuff is looking disturbingly familiar and they're using Eldar death magic or somesuch to bring back a Primarch which folk used to semi-jokingly say would be the indicator that GW had finally run out of ideas, but I'm sure if you join me in placing your head inside this lovely sand everything will turn out good in the end."


At some stage giving the benefit of the doubt stops being the rational default position to take.