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 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think we'll see legions coming back.

Why would you think that, the guy in charge of the Imperium is the one that wrote the Codex that broke up the legions in the first place?

That is if all the speculation is correct and RG takes on some kind of leadership position...

I'm not convinved that the Legions really ever left. They just adopted different color schemes and broke apart. In the Beast Arises, we see that the Imperial Fists have a protocol built in to reform. Every time I read about Azrael, it is pretty obvious that he can get the other Chapters to do anything that needs doing, and that really the Dark Angels never really broke apart they just changed color schemes and lied about it (shocker). Also, if Gulliman (who accounts for what... at least 50% of all marine gene seed) told them to reform... we know how that would go I think. Marines would fall all over themselves to do whatever he needs done.

 vitki wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think we'll see legions coming back.

Why would you think that, the guy in charge of the Imperium is the one that wrote the Codex that broke up the legions in the first place?

That is if all the speculation is correct and RG takes on some kind of leadership position...

Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

 angelofvengeance wrote:


Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

I'd have to go look it up, but I thought the reason the legions were split was to ensure that nobody in the future was able to wield the same amount of power as Horus.
Since Horus was gone by the time the Codex was written, it would have had no bearing on the power he had.

I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, I'm interested in your point of view. How do you think they might go back to legions? Would they re-integrate the second and subsequent foundings back in to the parent chapters or just start pumping up the recruitment of the ~1000 existing chapters?

 vitki wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:


Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

I'd have to go look it up, but I thought the reason the legions were split was to ensure that nobody in the future was able to wield the same amount of power as Horus.
Since Horus was gone by the time the Codex was written, it would have had no bearing on the power he had.

I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, I'm interested in your point of view. How do you think they might go back to legions? Would they re-integrate the second and subsequent foundings back into the parent chapters or just start pumping up the recruitment of the ~1000 existing chapters?

Well, if you read the last few supplements that have come out, there's quite a few instances of the successor chapters helping out their legion of origin. So it seems like they might merge back together.

I think they would be more inclined to work as teams instead of one big legion.

But I guess it all depends on what Robute will do.

Urrrrrrgh hype for the finale of this book from Twitch. I really hope it doesn't get spoiled before release day.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Urrrrrrgh hype for the finale of this book from Twitch. I really hope it doesn't get spoiled before release day.

Yeah, when Andy said how ridiculous the end of this book is ... HNGGG, the hype. I can't wait to read this bad boy and I can't wait to read the moment Grayfax realizes she was wrong about Celestine too. That's gonna be a pretty big moment for her.

I liked Andy's comment about Celestine calling her a flying mutant thing and made me think about the Imperium and it's over zealous faith sometimes. What if we are just like the Flesh-eater Courts? That Celestine is just another warp beast under command of the now Pantheon God the Emperor but under our blind faith, we see this pure being of light, much like how the Flesh-Eater Courts actually see themselves as proud knights fighting for their magnificent leader when really, they're all just monsters.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 vitki wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think we'll see legions coming back.

Why would you think that, the guy in charge of the Imperium is the one that wrote the Codex that broke up the legions in the first place?

That is if all the speculation is correct and RG takes on some kind of leadership position...

Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

They were broken so that nobody, including Guillimann, couldn't be Horus 2. Would be pretty odd that he would suddenly just like that ignore his own decision.

Especially as for him it's not really 10,000 years. He remembers HH just like it just happened. He knows danger of individual having that much power.

GW writes so badly wouldn't surprise if they did that but sheesh that would be bad move.

I think, rather than reform the Legions of the Heresy era, we may see some Chapters rolled into each other as a result of getting their faces smashed in.

So the Chapter in the Codex sense will persist, but some of the more grievously wounded ones (thinking Blood Angels specifically, didn't they and their successors just get a mauling from the Nids?) will be smooshed together into something not a Chapter but not quite a Legion either.

@Tneva82: Yeah, but there's a difference between having control over a single Legion and having control over 9 Legions plus a load of other assets.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think, rather than reform the Legions of the Heresy era, we may see some Chapters rolled into each other as a result of getting their faces smashed in.

So the Chapter in the Codex sense will persist, but some of the more grievously wounded ones (thinking Blood Angels specifically, didn't they and their successors just get a mauling from the Nids?) will be smooshed together into something not a Chapter but not quite a Legion either.

It would explain the sudden spate of books about the Scythes of the Emperor.

It strikes me as especially grimdark that Guillman, after having to lobby so hard to break up the legions into chapters, to the point of almost causing another civil war, would either have to swallow his pride and re-integrate the chapters into legions or watch the galaxy burn to much larger and centrally organized chaos marine legions.

Yeah. I could see that happening.

It would be cool, and right a few wrongs logistically wise (and also give a great side narrative with the revulsion of the High Lords at the idea) if RG admits maybe he was too zealous with the original marine chapter size and let them up their numbers to 10000 per chapter, with a huge recruitment drive by the chapters and some argy bargy about them being able to access their gene stock that is currently stored as the tithe.

It would be also great for the narrative if most chapters were allowed to do this, but certain chapters were not, the cursed founding anyone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and then the inevitable side stories of mass failings and mutations within some chapters.

It would bring hope, but then be still grim dark.

Robot Ghoulman breaking up the legions was a power grab plain and simple. He was more than happy to start a fresh civil war if he did not get his way.

The smurfs never really broke up as none of there successors were more than a couple of systems away from ultramarr and all did and continue to be controlled by the boss smurf.

After making it to the table as a high lord he ensured that 80% of all new marines are of smurf stock and know it ensuring there loyalty to there spiritual liege.

Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

 godswildcard wrote:
It strikes me as especially grimdark that Guillman, after having to lobby so hard to break up the legions into chapters, to the point of almost causing another civil war, would either have to swallow his pride and re-integrate the chapters into legions or watch the galaxy burn to much larger and centrally organized chaos marine legions.

Yeah. I could see that happening.

It would be the fastest way for Dorn to return. He would appear out of nowhere ust to say "I TOLD YOU SO!"

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

I don't know if splitting up the legions into chapters is the problem with the IoM.

I think the problem is with the Highlords and how they have run things in the absence of the Emp, in the Emp's name.

I wonder if the major twist at the end is that RG takes the throne as Interim Emperor until further notice. Causing a lot of shock because here is the guy who split up the legions so there wasn't such a consolidation of power, taking a consolidation of power.

That in of itself might tear apart the IoM and reignite the Unification wars.

Wait, I've just thought of something. Ynnead or whoever it is brings the thousand son marines back from the 'dead' and their bodies return from crumbling/decomposing to regenerating whole, if only for a brief moment.

Obviously, asking about regenerating the big E is the most obvious play, but could they not do the same for good old Sanguinius, who's body or what's left of it is in a tomb on Baal?

Not saying I want to see this happen, but given the power the new Eldar players have, RG was not the only option possibly?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

Outrageous! Who would possibly suggest that any of the Emperor's primarchs could ever be traitors?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

It's not a conspiracy theory really just influenced by the old pre 500 book hh series fluff.
Grand papa smurf turned up with a mostly undamaged legion 24hrs after the siege was broken mumbling about not being able to find anywhere to park and bad weather. Russ calls him a pussy and wanted to know where he was when the fighting was getting done, Bob get's pissy and demands that all legions be broken up(Just some less than others). Dorn,Russ and Vulkan have reservations about taking advice from someone who missed the entire heresy but gulliman turns his ships guns on them and even together Dorn knows while they can take them it will gut the imperium so he stands down Bob gets rewarded with a position as a Lordof Terra for his "loyalty" well that was before wardian retcons and BL drivel changed it.

I think you've....misremembered some of the old Fluff there Sean!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

2 words: Hail Hydra

SeanDrake wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

It's not a conspiracy theory really just influenced by the old pre 500 book hh series fluff.
Grand papa smurf turned up with a mostly undamaged legion 24hrs after the siege was broken mumbling about not being able to find anywhere to park and bad weather. Russ calls him a pussy and wanted to know where he was when the fighting was getting done, Bob get's pissy and demands that all legions be broken up(Just some less than others). Dorn,Russ and Vulkan have reservations about taking advice from someone who missed the entire heresy but gulliman turns his ships guns on them and even together Dorn knows while they can take them it will gut the imperium so he stands down Bob gets rewarded with a position as a Lordof Terra for his "loyalty" well that was before wardian retcons and BL drivel changed it.

Wasn't that the DA? They sat out the fight to see which side came out on top.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Obviously, asking about regenerating the big E is the most obvious play, but could they not do the same for good old Sanguinius, who's body or what's left of it is in a tomb on Baal?

Of course I thought of it as well.

But you must bare in mind that Baal is currently under massive Tyranid invasion + like said earlier Primarchs are different kind of beings. It is a question would it work at all.

What I would prefer however is

But will it happen - it rests upon GW and their future plans. I doubt it but would like to read it.

 Captain Azrael wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Obviously, asking about regenerating the big E is the most obvious play, but could they not do the same for good old Sanguinius, who's body or what's left of it is in a tomb on Baal?

Of course I thought of it as well.

But you must bare in mind that Baal is currently under massive Tyranid invasion + like said earlier Primarchs are different kind of beings. It is a question would it work at all.

What I would prefer however is

Spoiler:

God Emperor resurrecting him with his God-like powers once he is released from his mortal shell. Imagine Sanguinius bursting out from his tomb just when Blood Angels are making their last stand with Dante, slaying Trygons left and right, now that would be epic read.

But will it happen - it rests upon GW and their future plans. I doubt it but would like to read it.

I think I'd prefer the possibility of it, the Eldar dangling it like a carrot in front of the Imperium (or just the blood angels) to get what they want, but never actually doing it, leave it as a possibility in the fluff that doesn't come to fruition.

I honestly believe Roboute will be the only loyalist primarch that comes back

This is all so disheartening. Alien witches resurrecting Primarchs and people are cheering. This is way worse than the infamous Necron fist bump. I have been a fan of 40K since the second edition, and I have never been this worries about the future of the game, not even close. I literally haven't touched a 40K mini since I first heard about this Primarch returning nonsense, and I'm afraid this is just the beginning of dismantling everything that made 40K cool. If we end up with Guilliman as the new Emperor, I'm probably done with 40K for good.

Crimson, how is it that disheartening? Nothing very out of character is happening. The Eldar do what they must to ensure their race's survival. If they've determined the IoM is no longer the biggest threat, why wouldn't they help set the IoM against that threat? Heck, even if they are the Eldar enjoy sowing conflict to distract people from attacking them.