Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You strange as itmay sound I think GW wants the old vets of the hobby out partially. On forums you often hear people talking they've been in the hobby for decades and hate all the new stuff.

These people with huge old collections hang around and don't buy that much from GW. People with almost complete collections .they do still play almost scaring new people away from GW and thereby costing them money. This was a real hindrance to old warhammer fantasy 8th edition where that blolb of 50 core models was basicly invisible if you were running varied armies.

So I don't mind shake-ups they make certain young people can come in and get a clue what's going on without feeling like they missed 20+ years and have to catch up.

Also RG rules seem good enough to me. I really hate powercreep so that means he doesn't have to massively upset the meta. Just be fun to play with and against and it seems he does provide that.

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Two things:

Does anybody else think the fallen weren't even painted? They look photoshopped. They're in the exact same pose as the company vets.

I think Girlyman looks kind of... bad. Admittedly I do mainly play Horus Heresy. I think Valdor would put up a good fight.

Wow, just checked the webstore, haha wow those are certainly some 'shopped Marines!!! My bad. The WD ones were different and unique.

Heres a question... does Guilliman seem to have assault grenades?

From what i´ve heard Roboute is 350-360.
Maybe in the 8th edition MC can join squads?


And the one guy from twitch confirmed that in GS 3 is at least one formation to field the fallen.
Furthermore he said also something about cypher and that he shot someone in the eye, but i didn´t really get the context to this phrase.

I for one love to see an end of the situation of the Imperium, i really hate that stupid church-setting.
But regardless for that aren´t the rules way more important?

In the twitch stream he hadn´t to move around, the demons deep striked right to his feet.

Earth127 wrote:
You strange as itmay sound I think GW wants the old vets of the hobby out partially. On forums you often hear people talking they've been in the hobby for decades and hate all the new stuff.

These people with huge old collections hang around and don't buy that much from GW. People with almost complete collections .they do still play almost scaring new people away from GW and thereby costing them money. This was a real hindrance to old warhammer fantasy 8th edition where that blolb of 50 core models was basicly invisible if you were running varied armies.

So I don't mind shake-ups they make certain young people can come in and get a clue what's going on without feeling like they missed 20+ years and have to catch up.

Also RG rules seem good enough to me. I really hate powercreep so that means he doesn't have to massively upset the meta. Just be fun to play with and against and it seems he does provide that.

No, they don't want people out. Veterans generally hate the new stuff because it doesn't fit their still picture they liked. Happened with 6th edition's change in WHFB, and went as far as spawning KoW with the movement from 7th to 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazyterran wrote:
A slow model that can't join units since he's a mc, costs 350 points, and all his command abilities only work within 12", which will quickly be out paced.

If he had been an extremely bulky infantry he could have been worth it, but MC killed him.

Unless he has IC and I missed it, the most he will do is die to a round of grav fire.

You'd need 18 grav-wounds (not accounting for to-hit and to wound further narrowing that margin) in order to kill guilliman. That's a pretty darned good resilience there, more son when not all armies are codex: grav-spam

Use electrodisplacement or invisibility or that geomancy power, you've got librarius conclaves for a reason. Set him for the usage. He's perfectly usable but he's not point and click, that's a given.

Firefox1 wrote:

I for one love to see an end of the situation of the Imperium, i really hate that stupid church-setting.

FFS. I really don't get people who are supposedly fans of 40K hating everything that makes 40K cool.

But regardless for that aren´t the rules way more important?

No. Rules come and go, the fluff is eternal (or at least that's how it used to be.)


In any case, hasn't the NDA been lifted now as the thing is in preorder, why there are not even vague reviews?

 Crimson wrote:

Firefox1 wrote:

I for one love to see an end of the situation of the Imperium, i really hate that stupid church-setting.

FFS. I really don't get people who are supposedly fans of 40K hating everything that makes 40K cool.

But regardless for that aren´t the rules way more important?

No. Rules come and go, the fluff is eternal (or at least that's how it used to be.)


In any case, hasn't the NDA been lifted now as the thing is in preorder, why there are not even vague reviews?

It's called difference in opinion, but I guess that in order to be a fan you need to sign an oath of love for a very strict set of tastes.

Fluff's never been eternal. It's ALWAYS been subjected to changes. Don't remember 3rd edition as a whole or 5th edition necrons, just to name a few?

"Doesn't fit their still picture..."

Almost as if 40k is a setting.

Its not exactly difference in opinion.

People should like a universe/story/setting by his owns merits. If they like another thing, they shouldn't whant that setting to change. They should look for another universe.

For example: I love the grimdark and dystopian Imperium of W40k. But maybe someday I grow bored of all this Grimdark.
Should I want the Imperium to change to satisfy my new tastes?
No.

I should look for another universe: If I'm bored of all this Grimdark, maybe I want to chek out Star Trek and his more Utopian universe.

And then, when I grow bored of Star Trek, I can go back to W40K, because it remained pure grimdark.

Variety its the sauce of life.

If all the things we like were the same, what a boring life to live!

PD: And to not go much off-topic. These Fallen are totally photoshoped. I saw them yesterdey in the NZ site and laugh a big.
Someone knows if the new army sets with Pictures firmed by Jess Goodwin offer some discount? or only discount on clicks?

Fluff is eternal? Then how come Dark Angels are green and not black like in Rouge Trader? How come we have Primarchs? How come we have 30K? We had none of that in Rogue Trader.

I guess people are having selective memory of what fluff they want or are thinking about.

As for the NDA, who says it has been lifted?

Ruin wrote:
"Doesn't fit their still picture..."

Almost as if 40k is a setting.

Nice quote snipe there, you could have actually caught on what I meant if you'd actually read the whole phrase and examples. Even when speaking of a setting changes into said setting will cause uproar, like the changes I've mentioned. But hey, keep missing the point please.

Now let's move along and go for the actual point of the thread.

After doing a bit of math, guilliman, without resurrecting, could tank something along the ballpark of 43 grav shots if everything went according to averages. When playing against eldar he'd take 170 shots from scatterlaser, which is roughly a 1000pts of scatterbikes. Pretty darn good resilience, if you ask me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galas wrote:
Its not exactly difference in opinion.

People should like a universe/story/setting by his owns merits. If they like another thing, they shouldn't whant that setting to change. They should look for another universe.

For example: I love the grimdark and dystopian Imperium of W40k. But maybe someday I grow bored of all this Grimdark.
Should I want the Imperium to change to satisfy my new tastes?
No.

You're describing the fans' take on the tau... Except the Should ended up in a yes. Much to my chargrin.

Is there supposed to be a tease or reveal this Saturday? I swore I read something about it a few pages back.

Galas wrote:
Its not exactly difference in opinion.

People should like a universe/story/setting by his owns merits. If they like another thing, they shouldn't whant that setting to change. They should look for another universe.

For example: I love the grimdark and dystopian Imperium of W40k. But maybe someday I grow bored of all this Grimdark.
Should I want the Imperium to change to satisfy my new tastes?
No.

I should look for another universe: If I'm bored of all this Grimdark, maybe I want to chek out Star Trek and his more Utopian universe.

And then, when I grow bored of Star Trek, I can go back to W40K, because it remained pure grimdark.

Variety its the sauce of life.

This. I love both 40K and Star Trek. But I don't want 40K to be optimistic or Star Trek to be grimdark.

Lord Kragan wrote:


You're describing the fans' take on the tau... Except the Should ended up in a yes. Much to my chargrin.

Well, its not exactly the same adding new things to the setting that change stablised things of the setting. But yes I understand your point. I'm in the little crown that like the more Utopian and light-heart Tau that the new Orwellian type. They offered a contrast, the new motivated race condemmed to die horribly. But "urgh durp anime urgh weaboos urgh durp not enough skulls" and all that.

I'm actually not bother by all this changes, don't mind me. If 40k change to much it doesn't erases all the previous lore, as I still roleplay and game in the Old World and Age of Sigmar. As I say earlier, variety its the key.

I was just answering the point of fans of a universe that want that the things in that universe change erasing what they make them unique.
Maybe I like better that Rohan didn't use horses and were a full on foot army, living in a anarco-comunal society but... well that its not Rohan anymore.


And... back on topic. It is confirmed that we are gonna had another trilogy or another two? Or its 8th edition right of the corner?

Davor wrote:

As for the NDA, who says it has been lifted?

Hmm. I assumed this is how it was with the previous books, am I wrong? (Maybe I am...)

One could assume that the purpose of review copies would be to make it possible there to be reviews when the preorders go up, so that people could make somewhat informed decision about ordering.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Kragan wrote:

It's called difference in opinion, but I guess that in order to be a fan you need to sign an oath of love for a very strict set of tastes.

One more thing about this. I'm sure it is possible for different fans of like different facets of the setting, but if you dislike the core aspects, then it makes me wonder why you like the thing in the first place. I would say that Imperium being a rather theocratic is one of the most important defining features of the setting. It is a bit like saying that you like Star Wars, but just wish they'd get rid of that Force nonsense.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galas wrote:

And... back on topic. It is confirmed that we are gonna had another trilogy or another two? Or its 8th edition right of the corner?

I think most of the rumours were saying that 8th would be in the summer. So there could be another trilogy before that.

 JohnnyHell wrote:


My Tyranids are playing tiny violins for you :-D

They really shouldn't, as the dakka Flyrant is an infinitely​ stronger unit.

---------------------

Guilliman being a MC has pretty much doomed him to being mediocre at best on the tabletop. The Avatar is a 6" move beatstick force multiplier, and no one takes him. Know why? Good. Those are the same reasons why no ones taking Gulliman outside of fluffy narrative games.

 Crimson wrote:

Galas wrote:
Its not exactly difference in opinion.

People should like a universe/story/setting by his owns merits. If they like another thing, they shouldn't whant that setting to change. They should look for another universe.

For example: I love the grimdark and dystopian Imperium of W40k. But maybe someday I grow bored of all this Grimdark.
Should I want the Imperium to change to satisfy my new tastes?
No.

I should look for another universe: If I'm bored of all this Grimdark, maybe I want to chek out Star Trek and his more Utopian universe.

And then, when I grow bored of Star Trek, I can go back to W40K, because it remained pure grimdark.

Variety its the sauce of life.

This. I love both 40K and Star Trek. But I don't want 40K to be optimistic or Star Trek to be grimdark.

The problem is that over the years, 40K has ramped the grimdark up to ridiculous levels. When that happens, you don't have "grimdark". Instead, you have "GRIMDERP".


Grimdark is fine. But it's gotten to the point where it's time, in my opinion, to trim it back a bit and offer a counter-balance to all the grimdark.. But don't tell that to the average neckbeard, whose very soul would be crushed without the steady I.V. drip of GRIMDARK and METHUL. One has to just look at the reaction to the Tau to see the point I'm making. Neckbeards made a major fuss over the presence of a genuinely optimistic and "decent" faction in their setting of TOTAL GLOOM AND DOOM, until they grimdarked the Tau by turning the Ethereal Caste into moustache-twirling, Saturday mourning cartoon villains, who sterilize entire populations and kill their own troops en-mass for seeing something that runs counter to their party line. Combined with the aggressive wars of expansion, all this adds up to this key fact: The Tau Empire has been GRIMDERPED into what is essentially "Imperium Lite".

And the potency of GRIMDERP was back up to the level where neckbeards didn't go into withdrawl.


The whole gimmick of "One Minute To Midnight" is getting stale. It's time for the clock to chime and a glorious new age of war on a massive scale to begin. Entropy has reached the critical point for chaos to run rampant for a bit, and for the cycle of Order to rise from the ashes: A glorious new age for the Imperium of Man, with Rowboat Gorillaman banning stupid pills among the Imperium's ruling elites, and little bit of hope and common sense to balance out the grimdark, achieving equilibrium.

Of course, that is just my opinion. Others will differ.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:


My Tyranids are playing tiny violins for you :-D

They really shouldn't, as the dakka Flyrant is an infinitely​ stronger unit.

---------------------

Guilliman being a MC has pretty much doomed him to being mediocre at best on the tabletop. The Avatar is a 6" move beatstick force multiplier, and no one takes him. Know why? Good. Those are the same reasons why no ones taking Gulliman outside of fluffy narrative games.

I don't think you can really compare Guilliman to the 3+/5++ Avatar with no FNP or ability to regen wounds.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:


My Tyranids are playing tiny violins for you :-D

They really shouldn't, as the dakka Flyrant is an infinitely​ stronger unit.

---------------------

Guilliman being a MC has pretty much doomed him to being mediocre at best on the tabletop. The Avatar is a 6" move beatstick force multiplier, and no one takes him. Know why? Good. Those are the same reasons why no ones taking Gulliman outside of fluffy narrative games.

They also don't take the avatar because he's a LOW competing against a Wraithknight. And GC>MC but there's also the fact that eldar don't have the tools to make slow units go fast (like marines do).

At least that Avatar will beat Guilliman in melee pretty much every time! (If he could ever get there)

And then at least the Yncarne can teleport around, that helps on that end. (Though, he wants nothing to do with that Primarch in Combat)

So the book and trimutive are up for preorder, what is coming out over the rest of the month? Any one pick up the new WD?

 daemonish wrote:
So the book and trimutive are up for preorder, what is coming out over the rest of the month? Any one pick up the new WD?

There is only the BoP boxes for the marines and Terminators which will be available to pre-order next week, after that there is nothing in the WD so I imagine we will see the AoS Duradin after that.

Any news of the rules for the fallen units?

Lord Kragan wrote:

Earth127 wrote:
You strange as itmay sound I think GW wants the old vets of the hobby out partially. On forums you often hear people talking they've been in the hobby for decades and hate all the new stuff.

These people with huge old collections hang around and don't buy that much from GW. People with almost complete collections .they do still play almost scaring new people away from GW and thereby costing them money. This was a real hindrance to old warhammer fantasy 8th edition where that blolb of 50 core models was basicly invisible if you were running varied armies.

So I don't mind shake-ups they make certain young people can come in and get a clue what's going on without feeling like they missed 20+ years and have to catch up.

Also RG rules seem good enough to me. I really hate powercreep so that means he doesn't have to massively upset the meta. Just be fun to play with and against and it seems he does provide that.

No, they don't want people out. Veterans generally hate the new stuff because it doesn't fit their still picture they liked. Happened with 6th edition's change in WHFB, and went as far as spawning KoW with the movement from 7th to 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazyterran wrote:
A slow model that can't join units since he's a mc, costs 350 points, and all his command abilities only work within 12", which will quickly be out paced.

If he had been an extremely bulky infantry he could have been worth it, but MC killed him.

Unless he has IC and I missed it, the most he will do is die to a round of grav fire.

You'd need 18 grav-wounds (not accounting for to-hit and to wound further narrowing that margin) in order to kill guilliman. That's a pretty darned good resilience there, more son when not all armies are codex: grav-spam

Use electrodisplacement or invisibility or that geomancy power, you've got librarius conclaves for a reason. Set him for the usage. He's perfectly usable but he's not point and click, that's a given.

No you would need 27 grav wounds discounting rolls to hit and wound since he has FNP. The guy will be a serious pain in the ass the kill in a turn.

On a side note, thank GOD he can't join other characters, this would have made super friends even more brutal. As if we need this guy joined to a Tigurius conclave and a ferw thunder wolf lords/wulfen/whatever the feth broken combo you are in the mood for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The people saying this guy isn't good are insane to me. As if it were such a burden to field a Tigurius conclave for electro displacement, next to take a 35 point FA drop pod with a 10 pt servitor inside and laugh as you can now pinpoint switch RG anywhere on the table and then assault. But wait it gets more hilarious, people think being a MC is somehow a problem, until you realize he can now choose to smash attack for that one single casualty in order to remain locked on the turn he assaults ensuring his safety fomr shooting then the next turn he can do that derpy whirlwind attack wiping the unit.

Electro displacement only targets who the Psyker and his unit will trade with.

Maybe if you actually knew Fulimantion's rules you'd have something to argue about him surviving to make combat.

Magnetokinesis can be targeted on another unit, the Levitation copy in Fulmination. It doesn't let you charge.

That's the spirit. Call everyone who disagrees with you a "neckbeard". As if you're exactly the epitome of cool for loving what GW are doing to 40k...

-

Well this thread quickly turned to burning garbage...

We were doing so well for awhile :(

 nudibranch wrote:
Well this thread quickly turned to burning garbage...

Just like 40k's fluff. Amirite?