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 Kanluwen wrote:


I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.

Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.

Rending also affects shots against vehicles, not just wound rules of a 6. So maybe not a sign of future proofing at all.

Wasn't sure, has this been posted yet?

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

Wasn't sure, has this been posted yet?

That has not, but of course they cut it off where the options would be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TonyL707 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.

Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.

Rending also affects shots against vehicles, not just wound rules of a 6. So maybe not a sign of future proofing at all.

Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.

Each roll of a 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total. Those hits are not resolved at AP2 but instead resolved using the model/weapon's AP value.

Or they could have just thrown Armourbane on it if they were concerned about it being ineffective versus vehicles.

The rending on Hand of Dominion would still help with shooting vehicles, possibly allowing him to glance/pen AV 14 with high rolls.

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

Wasn't sure, has this been posted yet?

That has not, but of course they cut it off where the options would be.

Thanks, obtained it from this Spanish site:
http://www.lavozdehorus.com/nuevas-unidades-angeles-caidos/

According to them (with aid of google translate):

"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps

One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.

Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."

Potential translations courtesy of others:
Fusion = melta ?
Fusion pumps = melta bombs ?
Relief Knife = Lightning claws ?

Aroo? Autocannons?

That translated list of weapons is brilliant!

opu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

Wasn't sure, has this been posted yet?

That has not, but of course they cut it off where the options would be.

Thanks, obtained it from this Spanish site:
http://www.lavozdehorus.com/nuevas-unidades-angeles-caidos/

According to them (with aid of google translate):

"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps

One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.

Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."

Im guessing "Fusion" is melta and "Fusion Pumps" is fusion bombs (the site says Fusion de Bomba")?

and maybe "Relief Knife" is Lightning Claws (Its listed as Cuchilla relálmpago, and I think relálmpago is lightning)

 Kanluwen wrote:

Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
[.

Writing rendings rules into guillimans rules would have been horrible. You would have same rule under two names. Change one(say 8th ed rulebook) and other needs separate change.

It's crap like that that led dark angel smoke launchers, storm shields and cml work differently long time.

Same edfect, same rule. Don't create separate named rules with identical effects

opu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

Wasn't sure, has this been posted yet?

That has not, but of course they cut it off where the options would be.

Thanks, obtained it from this Spanish site:
http://www.lavozdehorus.com/nuevas-unidades-angeles-caidos/

According to them (with aid of google translate):

"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps

One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.

Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."

Thx for the info just doing a proper translate for all important info.

100 points for squad can add up to extra 5 fallen for 20 points each. formation grants them Stubborn adn ATSKNF. (they compare them as choosen Chaos marine with VotLW)

champion gear options:
Lighthing claw, power fist and power weapon (sorry no *relief knife*),
Plasma pistol or Combi melta/plasma or flamethrower.
melta bombs.

1 fallen swap weapons are right (just remember fusion = melta weapon)

up to 4 fallen can be equipped with:
Ligthing Claws, power fist, power weapon or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, melta rifle or a combi melta/plasma or flamethrower.

they comment that no clue about wich kind of dedicated vehicles they may have, theorize maybe a rhino and have great doubts they'll be get access to drop pods.

P.S: btw in previous post they comment Cypher rules remain unchanged

P.S.2: found some info on the new formations.

Grey knights one seems 1 lib 2 paladin 2 termis minimum and gain +1 to DtW as long 3+ units on table and if any unit cast banishment all Daemon at 12" or less from any unit of this formation is affected by it.

Ultrasmurfs one Cato sicarius, 1 honor guard, 1 sternguard veterans unit 1 Vanguard Veterans unit. they get +1 ha and hp and Girlyman can perform LoS if he's within 3" of any unit.

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
[.

Writing rendings rules into guillimans rules would have been horrible. You would have same rule under two names. Change one(say 8th ed rulebook) and other needs separate change.

It's crap like that that led dark angel smoke launchers, storm shields and cml work differently long time.

Same edfect, same rule. Don't create separate named rules with identical effects

Reread what I wrote before you come in to start an argument.

I'm simply saying that:
A) I think the inclusion of Rending was futureproofing and that they have already thought of a way for Rending to be different.
B) If they had wanted to include the effect from Rending against vehicles(or its Autowound on 6s), it would have been an absolute joke to do so. The Hand of Dominion is already AP2 for its shooting attacks, all it would have taken was writing out the bit about vehicles.

As it stands? He has been given an effectively useless rule and we don't know the reason why.
Rending's big schtick is that a roll of 6 automatically Wounds at AP2.
The gun is AP2.

Rending is not useless. Vehicles remember. Putting that part of rending rule to his rules instead would have been lol-bad stupid idiotic thing.


Yes it's not big boost. Every rule doesn't need d strenght...

tneva82 wrote:
Rending is not useless. Vehicles remember. Putting that part of rending rule to his rules instead would have been lol-bad stupid idiotic thing.

And what happens if Rending gets changed to do nothing but force an enemy to subtract 2 from any of their Armor Save rolls?

Oh right. Does nothing to vehicles then...

Yes it's not big boost. Every rule doesn't need d strenght...

That's not the argument being made by me though. You're really going to try to sit there and say that them writing out the portion of the rule applying specifically to vehicles is worse than them slapping "Rending" onto it?

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
[.

Writing rendings rules into guillimans rules would have been horrible. You would have same rule under two names. Change one(say 8th ed rulebook) and other needs separate change.

It's crap like that that led dark angel smoke launchers, storm shields and cml work differently long time.

Same edfect, same rule. Don't create separate named rules with identical effects

Reread what I wrote before you come in to start an argument.

I'm simply saying that:
A) I think the inclusion of Rending was futureproofing and that they have already thought of a way for Rending to be different.
B) If they had wanted to include the effect from Rending against vehicles(or its Autowound on 6s), it would have been an absolute joke to do so. The Hand of Dominion is already AP2 for its shooting attacks, all it would have taken was writing out the bit about vehicles.

As it stands? He has been given an effectively useless rule and we don't know the reason why.
Rending's big schtick is that a roll of 6 automatically Wounds at AP2.
The gun is AP2.

Rending allows auto-wounding on the 6 as well. You probably won't run into T10 but there ya go.

Then it stays at S6 to not making ID anything at Marine toughness.

 cuda1179 wrote:
No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.

Or you just don't resolve soul blaze, which is the sensible way of doing it.
Soul blaze is just an additional effect, isn't it? I don't see why the AoK would be completely immune to RG's fancy sword.
Isn't there a rule that ignores melta? Can you use melta weapons against a model with that rule, albeit without the damage bonus? What about using attacks that have the Instant Death effect against models with Eternal Warrior? You mean to tell me that I can't resolve an attack from a force weapon at all against them, because of EW?

Too bad they didn't give Fallen Grim Resolve. Cypher combined with people firing at normal BS for overwatch would have been interesting. HH Dark Angels/Fallen are on my to do list for 2018 for painting (just because they look awesome).

So the Fallen are still just Chosen/Veterans and Cypher isn't different? Meh swing and a miss. Feels like this is all simply a way to sell Guilliman models since the other 2 characters aren't good.

I wonder what happened? Gathering Storm 1 had such good characters.. maybe there is a limited amount of creativity juices per quarter?

opu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

Wasn't sure, has this been posted yet?

That has not, but of course they cut it off where the options would be.

Thanks, obtained it from this Spanish site:
http://www.lavozdehorus.com/nuevas-unidades-angeles-caidos/

According to them (with aid of google translate):

"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps

One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.

Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."

Potential translations courtesy of others:
Fusion = melta ?
Fusion pumps = melta bombs ?
Relief Knife = Lightning claws ?

I don't see where it says fusion pumps. All I see are bombas de fusion, which are melta bombs
No idea what a Cuchilla relálmpago is. lightning knife I guess.

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Rending is not useless. Vehicles remember. Putting that part of rending rule to his rules instead would have been lol-bad stupid idiotic thing.

And what happens if Rending gets changed to do nothing but force an enemy to subtract 2 from any of their Armor Save rolls?

Oh right. Does nothing to vehicles then...

Yes it's not big boost. Every rule doesn't need d strenght...

That's not the argument being made by me though. You're really going to try to sit there and say that them writing out the portion of the rule applying specifically to vehicles is worse than them slapping "Rending" onto it?

You're stuck in a very narrow frame of mind, if rending does -2 to saves in the next edition then that does nothing against 7th edition vehicles, true. 8th ed vehicles might get armour saves though, but people always try to apply future rules and changes to the current set.

It's a logic destined to fail. Yes they could give it +d3 to armour pen on an armour pen roll of 6 (14 words) or rending (1 word).

If they scrap the armor value rules completely and give vehicles a save, damage profile, and a bunch of wounds like they did for monsters in AOS, then -2 rend will be a big deal. But I would expect the stats to be different as in AOS, so the weapon might not do the same thing.

 Kirasu wrote:
So the Fallen are still just Chosen/Veterans and Cypher isn't different? Meh swing and a miss. Feels like this is all simply a way to sell Guilliman models since the other 2 characters aren't good.

I wonder what happened? Gathering Storm 1 had such good characters.. maybe there is a limited amount of creativity juices per quarter?

Yeah...my grand designs to make a small Fallen army have been scrapped. I might still pick up some Grey Knight Terminators to make an allied force, but that is about it.

Roboute seems like he will be usable for me in one way or another and his points are actually not that bad for what he brings. Too bad he is stuck by himself.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.

Or you just don't resolve soul blaze, which is the sensible way of doing it.
Soul blaze is just an additional effect, isn't it? I don't see why the AoK would be completely immune to RG's fancy sword.
Isn't there a rule that ignores melta? Can you use melta weapons against a model with that rule, albeit without the damage bonus? What about using attacks that have the Instant Death effect against models with Eternal Warrior? You mean to tell me that I can't resolve an attack from a force weapon at all against them, because of EW?

*Facepalm*
You cant just "Decide" what Special rules you want to use on the fly
Melta Weapons (Bar Bombs) Have the Melta Rule, you cant decide for them to not become a Heat Based Wepaon when you decide
Also EW makes you only take 1 wound from ID Attacks...

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.

Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.

How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...

Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?

Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.

AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.

Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.

[spoiler]

 Verviedi wrote:
Has this image been posted already?

Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.

More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".

I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.

Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.

He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spartiatis wrote:
Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..

Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.

Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.

What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.

Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze

If the model does not have a specified CCW, it is treated as having a single CCW. That is not the case here as RG already has a weapon. He cannot choose another. As per BRB p. 41.

On the same page it is mentioned that if he had several weapons, you could choose which weapon you use in close combat. I don't think you can elect to fight unarmed in close combat. Since both of RG's weapons are rolled into one, his close combat attacks have Soul Blaze.

Why would Guilliman have to kill Avatars when Calgar can handle them. . .

For your convenience ...

8th edition dates. Salt not provided.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
For your convenience ...

8th edition dates. Salt not provided.

Probably should go in its own thread?

Was not sure about that. but sure why not.

Messiah wrote:

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.

Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.

How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...

Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?

Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.

AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.

Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.

[spoiler]

 Verviedi wrote:
Has this image been posted already?

Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.

More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".

I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.

Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.

He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spartiatis wrote:
Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..

Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.

Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.

What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.

Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze

If the model does not have a specified CCW, it is treated as having a single CCW. That is not the case here as RG already has a weapon. He cannot choose another. As per BRB p. 41.

On the same page it is mentioned that if he had several weapons, you could choose which weapon you use in close combat. I don't think you can elect to fight unarmed in close combat. Since both of RG's weapons are rolled into one, his close combat attacks have Soul Blaze.

Fairly valid points and I know the bit you're talking about, I guess it's just down to whether a model is considered having a 'No specified melee weapon' a.k.a unarmed alongside whatever melee weapons they actually have just as an option, far-fetched I know and pretty much every scenario wouldn't require this ruling it is only in cases like this where there is such a clash. Right now if the Avatar makes it into CC with Roboute, he is indefinitely tarpitted. I've sent the GW FAQ rules-monkeys an email concerning the whole scenario, so will have to see what they make of it.

opu wrote:

Messiah wrote:

opu wrote:

Spoiler:

 Kanluwen wrote:

opu wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.

Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.

How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...

Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?

Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.

AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.

Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.

[spoiler]

 Verviedi wrote:
Has this image been posted already?

Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.

More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".

I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.

Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.

He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spartiatis wrote:
Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..

Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.

Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.

What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.

Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze

If the model does not have a specified CCW, it is treated as having a single CCW. That is not the case here as RG already has a weapon. He cannot choose another. As per BRB p. 41.

On the same page it is mentioned that if he had several weapons, you could choose which weapon you use in close combat. I don't think you can elect to fight unarmed in close combat. Since both of RG's weapons are rolled into one, his close combat attacks have Soul Blaze.

Fairly valid points and I know the bit you're talking about, I guess it's just down to whether a model is considered having a 'No specified melee weapon' a.k.a unarmed alongside whatever melee weapons they actually have just as an option, far-fetched I know and pretty much every scenario wouldn't require this ruling it is only in cases like this where there is such a clash. Right now if the Avatar makes it into CC with Roboute, he is indefinitely tarpitted. I've sent the GW FAQ rules-monkeys an email concerning the whole scenario, so will have to see what they make of it.

Exactly. If you were allowed to fight unarmed, thre would be no point in getting a free melee weapon if unarmed.

Just read the Rulebook on CCWs
Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"

As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW
So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with

HOWEVER

I SWEAR there is a thing called "Teeth and Claws" in the 7th ed rulebook which counts as a CCW