Switch Theme:

US Politics: 2017 Edition  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

 sebster wrote:
Interesting to note, by this time in his presidency Obama had passed his minimum wage increase, and the massive expansion of children's health insurance (CHIP). The framework for legislation on Dodd-Frank and ACA were already in place and put in to committees, and they would be passed in the next year. After that, for basically the last 6.5 year of his presidency, Obama had no major legislative wins at all.

Meanwhile Trump has two versions of a travel ban executive order shot down by courts, and a half assed healthcare ban that looks like it won't even get through the house, and would be DOA in the senate anyway. There's talk that the framework for his tax plan hasn't even been started, and while his infrastructure bill is slated for 2018 in the hope that it will disrupt the Democrats, to this point no-one has any idea what it will even look like.

The point being that the momentum of an electoral win only lasts so long. You pass major legislation early, or you don't pass it at all. Your popularity will decline, reducing any bully pulpit you might have. You will get distracted by overseas disasters, by scandals and investigations. The opposition will learn how best to block and disrupt your efforts, and so will factions of your own party.

Trump has so far shown himself to be almost unable to move anything forward, and this is the easiest he will ever have it in Washington. If he can't get a bill close to passage now, it's possible he won't ever get one through.


Does he care though?

The rest of the administration may pull their hair out but Trump? He only wants to add being POTUS to his resume.
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob





UK

 Mr. Burning wrote:
 sebster wrote:
Interesting to note, by this time in his presidency Obama had passed his minimum wage increase, and the massive expansion of children's health insurance (CHIP). The framework for legislation on Dodd-Frank and ACA were already in place and put in to committees, and they would be passed in the next year. After that, for basically the last 6.5 year of his presidency, Obama had no major legislative wins at all.

Meanwhile Trump has two versions of a travel ban executive order shot down by courts, and a half assed healthcare ban that looks like it won't even get through the house, and would be DOA in the senate anyway. There's talk that the framework for his tax plan hasn't even been started, and while his infrastructure bill is slated for 2018 in the hope that it will disrupt the Democrats, to this point no-one has any idea what it will even look like.

The point being that the momentum of an electoral win only lasts so long. You pass major legislation early, or you don't pass it at all. Your popularity will decline, reducing any bully pulpit you might have. You will get distracted by overseas disasters, by scandals and investigations. The opposition will learn how best to block and disrupt your efforts, and so will factions of your own party.

Trump has so far shown himself to be almost unable to move anything forward, and this is the easiest he will ever have it in Washington. If he can't get a bill close to passage now, it's possible he won't ever get one through.


Does he care though?

The rest of the administration may pull their hair out but Trump? He only wants to add being POTUS to his resume.


This seems possible. Considering his narcissism, it's likely that he considers that he's "won" at life by being president, which is more than his dad achived. Even if he's the worst president in history, he was still president, and with his ability to self delude, he'll probably convince himself that it was the best presidency ever.

The GOP are squandering the best opportunity they've had in a long time to shape the US in a way they want to. They have every ace in their hand, and they are somehow making a complete hash of it. It's mind boggling.

"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

 Ahtman wrote:
The party that thought the internet was a series of tubes voted today to suspend rules that kept ISPs from selling your browsing history and such.

The US Senate today voted to eliminate broadband privacy rules that would have required ISPs to get consumers' explicit consent before selling or sharing Web browsing data and other private information with advertisers and other companies.

The rules were approved in October 2016 by the Federal Communications Commission's then-Democratic leadership, but are opposed by the FCC's new Republican majority and Republicans in Congress. The Senate today used its power under the Congressional Review Act to ensure that the FCC rulemaking "shall have no force or effect" and to prevent the FCC from issuing similar regulations in the future.

The House, also controlled by Republicans, would need to vote on the measure before the privacy rules are officially eliminated. President Trump could also preserve the privacy rules by issuing a veto. If the House and Trump agree with the Senate's action, ISPs won't have to seek customer approval before sharing their browsing histories and other private information with advertisers.


Also: Humanity Surprised It Still Hasn’t Figured Out Better Alternative To Letting Power-Hungry donkey-caves Decide Everything
Spoiler:
It is an Onion article.



Lovely party of small government selling our information to corporations

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Roswell, GA

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-obamacare-men-mike-pence-picture-no-women-freedom-caucus-repeal-healthcare-bill-a7647426.html

I feel this sums up how they view women in most cases.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/03/23/senate-agrees-to-let-carriers-use-your-data-however-they-want/

They all need to be voted out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 14:42:30


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

So are Conservatives now okay with POTUS telling congress what bills to write, when to vote, and how to vote?
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I know partisanship is strong, but I wonder if it's strong enough to overcome common sense and vote for the bill today.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





 Ouze wrote:
I know partisanship is strong, but I wonder if it's strong enough to overcome common sense and vote for the bill today.


Thats exactly how we got Orangey in office.

3000
4000 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 d-usa wrote:
So are Conservatives now okay with POTUS telling congress what bills to write, when to vote, and how to vote?

Are Democrats now ok with opposing the POTUS on everything?
Will Democrats now be against the "nuclear option"?

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

Whataboutism. The last refuge of the stubbornly mistaken. The next step is acceptance, then the healing can begin.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





This piece pretty powerfully sums up the difference between how an ordinary political party works, and how the dysfunctional and plainly bankrupt Republican party operates.

On Wednesday night, before the originally planned vote on AHCA, Trump was doing the rounds calling skittish Republican legislators. "Vote for the bill, he’s been telling them, or you’ll lose your seat."

"That night, I received a call from a Democratic senator. He’d read the piece, and it had reminded him of the closing argument President Barack Obama made to skittish Democratic legislators. Vote for the bill, Obama told them, because it’s worth losing your seat."
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/24/15044150/gops-true-health-care-problem


 Mr. Burning wrote:
Does he care though?

The rest of the administration may pull their hair out but Trump? He only wants to add being POTUS to his resume.


I'm not even sure it's about resume building. I think desiring that kind of respect would require Trump to have some kind of understanding that the presidency is a respectful position, of which we've seen no evidence.

I think it probably comes back to what Trump's ghost writer on The Art of the Deal said, Trump needs attention. It is his drug. And like any addict, he needs bigger and bigger hits. He loved the New York big money social scene, and the attention of the New York social pages, until that wasn't enough. So went to make himself in to a national figure. Moving his business out of NY real estate and in to casinos and then branded property deals and assorted miscellany was a product of attention seeking driving business decisions.

Whether or not Trump started campaigning for the presidency thinking he could win it is actually besides the point (remember Trump first started talking about running in 1988, and made a first real step at running in 2000). His chances of winning were never real the point, running gave more attention than not running, so that's what he did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Are Democrats now ok with opposing the POTUS on everything?
Will Democrats now be against the "nuclear option"?


It's actually impossible to tell if the Democrats are stubbornly opposing Trump and the Republicans on everything they do, or if they're just opposing Trump and the Republicans when they attempt stupid, destructive things... because to date all we've seen Trump and the Republicans try are stupid, destructive things.

Perhaps you should write to your local Republican representatives and ask them to attempt a piece of legislation that isn't stupid and destructive, because then we'll know if Democrats are opposing out of spite or just because they're the only functional party left in Washington.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 17:49:26


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 r_squared wrote:


The GOP are squandering the best opportunity they've had in a long time to shape the US in a way they want to. They have every ace in their hand, and they are somehow making a complete hash of it. It's mind boggling.
In part it's because they have competing internal groups with diametrically opposed views. In part its also because many of those views fundamentally view anything related to government as inherently bad, that government is the enemy, and that leaves them largely incapable if governance when they have the reigns of power.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Maybe after Trump walks away, and the legislative majority actually decides to govern by drafting and working their own legislation we will find out if the democrats are opposing on principle or if they are okay with it.

Right now the GOP went from the extreme of telling Obama that POTUS has no fething business telling congress what to do and how to do it, and entered straight into the extreme of Trump handing them a bill and telling them "vote, or else feth off" without much of any complain about separation of powers.

Now when this thing fails, hopefully, they can sit down with themselves and work on drafting some legislation that addresses the actual problems with the ACA other than "Obama signed the bill". If the Democrats still refuse to come to the table, then they can be labeled obstructionists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the vote today, sounds like Ryan is at the White House telling Trump they don't have the votes and asking him what he wants to do.

Just shut up and call the vote already. Put your money where your mouth is and call Trump's bluff. Let him walk away, and then legislate yourself!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 17:44:19


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

This is from Dailykos, but it seems like it's worth checking out. We all know a lot of the pieces in this puzzle, and Abramson claims to have put them together.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/3/23/1646686/-RussiaGate-blows-WIDE-OPEN-in-Abrahamson-report-High-crimes-and-misdemeanors-by-Trump-Sessions

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

The Republicans only took a couple of months to learn a lesson that the Democrats have known about for over 6 years:

Rep. Bradley Byrne, an Alabama Republican and member of the Republican Study Committee, a large group of fiscal conservatives, complained Thursday morning that the Freedom Caucus continues to throw out an expanding list of demands and suggested there was little to be done to get some in that group on board and it was time to move on.

"Those members don't change so at some point you've got to say there's nothing in the world that's going to change their minds," Byrne said.

A senior GOP aide said the caucus realizes they have moderates at risk with nothing to show for it.

"They don't know how to get to yes. They just don't. And it's putting the whole process at risk right now," the aide said.


Maybe some people on this board will finally understand what he have been trying to explain to them: if the minority says "feth no to anything you want, unless it's exactly what we want", then you end up having to walk away and pass something by yourself. That doesn't mean that the larger group that passes something failed to negotiate and compromise, it means that they decided to govern.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Vaktathi wrote:
In part it's because they have competing internal groups with diametrically opposed views. In part its also because many of those views fundamentally view anything related to government as inherently bad, that government is the enemy, and that leaves them largely incapable if governance when they have the reigns of power.


Yep, there's a culture and belief set in the Republican party that makes them fundamentally bad at governing. But it isn't just in the belief that government is the enemy.

One classic story, admittedly often told, comes from 1995, when the decline of the Republican party was really starting to pick up steam. In that year, Newt Gingrich defunded the Office of Technological Assessment (OTA). Republicans no longer had any time for a bi-partisan committee to give independent technical advice. So they cut it and instead starting going farming for any advisors who could tell Republicans what they wanted to hear.

In one sense that was a only a small thing, done more than 20 years ago, but in those 20 years can anyone give one point where Republicans backed down on their ideology because technical, scientific or any other kind of expert advice told them differently? Can anyone list a technical, scientific or any kind of expert that Republicans show respect towards, and who's knowledge they rate high enough to challenge any part of their ideology?

That's the nature of the Republican party, long on ideology, short on reality. It's how Paul Ryan has built a reputation as a policy wonk, despite publishing budgets that are basically long lists of tax cuts, and a bunch of asterixes saying that they'll balance the tax cuts by promising something or other, later. When idiots like that are allowed to assume policy leadership positions in the party, then they end up being the idiots who write your healthcare bills for you. And then what you end up with is a pretend healthcare bill, that's actually just some tax cuts, paid for by slashing big chunks out of medicaid and the insurance subsidy scheme, with no interest or understanding of how cutting those systems will affect insurance coverage or affordability.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





But but, Harry Ried! Hillary's Emails! Barrack HUSEIN Obama!

3000
4000 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 d-usa wrote:
Maybe after Trump walks away, and the legislative majority actually decides to govern by drafting and working their own legislation we will find out if the democrats are opposing on principle or if they are okay with it.


No, this AHCA disaster isn't a Trump thing. Ryan, Preibus and Pence convinced Trump to make Price the Secretary of Health and Human Services, because his views line up with their own. The three of them convinced Trump to put repealing ACA as the first priority of the new administration. Then Ryan and Price went off to write the bill they wanted, and they came up with AHCA. Trump then got drafted in to selling the bill, to the American people and to skittish Republican congressmen. Trump barely seems to understand what is actually in the bill, his public sales pitches on the bill have basically been attacking ACA, and talking vaguely about stuff like more choices in insurers and doctors, things that AHCA doesn't even try to do. When selling the bill to congressmen Trump focuses on political consequences, making up some predictions about seats lost because this bill failed, but there hasn't been a single report of Trump telling a single congressman they should vote for the bill because of something that's actually in it.

This bill really has nothing to do with Trump. This is all the work of establishment Republicans.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 d-usa wrote:
The Republicans only took a couple of months to learn a lesson that the Democrats have known about for over 6 years:

Rep. Bradley Byrne, an Alabama Republican and member of the Republican Study Committee, a large group of fiscal conservatives, complained Thursday morning that the Freedom Caucus continues to throw out an expanding list of demands and suggested there was little to be done to get some in that group on board and it was time to move on.

"Those members don't change so at some point you've got to say there's nothing in the world that's going to change their minds," Byrne said.

A senior GOP aide said the caucus realizes they have moderates at risk with nothing to show for it.

"They don't know how to get to yes. They just don't. And it's putting the whole process at risk right now," the aide said.


Maybe some people on this board will finally understand what he have been trying to explain to them: if the minority says "feth no to anything you want, unless it's exactly what we want", then you end up having to walk away and pass something by yourself. That doesn't mean that the larger group that passes something failed to negotiate and compromise, it means that they decided to govern.




This is like a scene in an absurdist comedy. Somewhere John Boehner is smirking!

On the other hand, has anyone seen #GOPDnD?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 18:38:57


Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 d-usa wrote:
Maybe some people on this board will finally understand what he have been trying to explain to them: if the minority says "feth no to anything you want, unless it's exactly what we want", then you end up having to walk away and pass something by yourself. That doesn't mean that the larger group that passes something failed to negotiate and compromise, it means that they decided to govern.


Well said, and perfectly illustrated by the example given.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 Easy E wrote:
On the other hand, has anyone seen #GOPDnD?

It's pretty good.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 18:40:07


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 WrentheFaceless wrote:
But but, Harry Ried! Hillary's Emails! Barrack HUSEIN Obama!


3% of Republicans regret their vote for Trump, so yeah, basically, it's a case of ignoring the actual Trump disaster, and continuing to play make believe about a bunch of obviously wrong allegations against Obama and Clinton.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Blackclad Wayfarer





Philadelphia

 d-usa wrote:
Maybe after Trump walks away


hahahaha

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Stevefamine wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Maybe after Trump walks away


hahahaha


Trump is pretty good at walking away from failures while pretending they didn't happen or were the fault of someone else.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 d-usa wrote:
 Stevefamine wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Maybe after Trump walks away


hahahaha


Trump is pretty good at walking away from failures while pretending they didn't happen or were the fault of someone else.
He's consistent about it. Republican voters are the ones who are good at believing him.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
 Stevefamine wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Maybe after Trump walks away


hahahaha


Trump is pretty good at walking away from failures while pretending they didn't happen or were the fault of someone else.
He's consistent about it. Republican voters are the ones who are good at believing him.


I dont think you can declare bankruptcy to get away from the Presidency though

3000
4000 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






I'm kinda curious to see how accurate the Washington Post whip count is to the total tally. If they are pretty accurate, and they have been updating all day as members change their votes, I will be looking at it more often.

Edit: and never mind, they just pulled it. No voting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 19:40:41


Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

The number of votes may not matter now, just saw a live update on CNN.com that says Trump has asked Ryan to pull the bill. Will see how it goes.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The number of votes may not matter now, just saw a live update on CNN.com that says Trump has asked Ryan to pull the bill. Will see how it goes.


So the countdown's on as to how long it takes Spicer to come out and say that Trump knew it wasn't going to pass the whole time.

   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Evidently he must have small feet too, because when he put his foot down, nobody blinked.

Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Hopefully this will provide the implosion that the GOP needs and a new moderate party spawns and the right wing nationalist branch can fade into obscurity

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: