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 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Deathstrike should become a Destroyer Weapon. Make it a Death Star killer. It's not ideal but in the current rules it's what we need. And if there's any weapon that should be a Destroyer it's that.

Agreed and then some!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Far as the imperial guard goes i think you guys are safe enough. I've heard in the latest book for all eldar that

Spoiler:

Commoragh was annihilated by daemons

so yeah i have more room to complain than you guys. It honestly sounds like they're about to either combine all eldar factions or just straight up get rid of dark eldar. Keep in mind imperial guard are safe because they're fairly popular, there's always guard or PDF somewhere and they're pretty major as far as faction go (sisters, tau and dark eldar don't have that luxury but sadly tau being OP gives them stupid popularity that is undeserved outside of that such as in lore or aesthetics). Dark eldar possibly being squatted or 40k being AoS end times destroyed will probably declare the end of my GW gaming and hobbying experience as i've been screwed every which way by GW by now. They can turn 40k and Fantasy into counting your teeth and your toes but i'll just sigh heavily and watch from outside of a new tabletop hobby if they decide to do so.

My heart bleeds. No, really it does.

We are talking here about the horrific malignant that has been done to the Guard in terms of power level, playbility and viability, not boohooing about some mary sue race losing its bastion. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but quite frankly elday are just being handed buffs like no tomorrow. You have never had it hard and probably never will do - mores the pity.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Deathstrike should become a Destroyer Weapon. Make it a Death Star killer. It's not ideal but in the current rules it's what we need. And if there's any weapon that should be a Destroyer it's that.

Agreed and then some!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Far as the imperial guard goes i think you guys are safe enough. I've heard in the latest book for all eldar that

Spoiler:

Commoragh was annihilated by daemons

so yeah i have more room to complain than you guys. It honestly sounds like they're about to either combine all eldar factions or just straight up get rid of dark eldar. Keep in mind imperial guard are safe because they're fairly popular, there's always guard or PDF somewhere and they're pretty major as far as faction go (sisters, tau and dark eldar don't have that luxury but sadly tau being OP gives them stupid popularity that is undeserved outside of that such as in lore or aesthetics). Dark eldar possibly being squatted or 40k being AoS end times destroyed will probably declare the end of my GW gaming and hobbying experience as i've been screwed every which way by GW by now. They can turn 40k and Fantasy into counting your teeth and your toes but i'll just sigh heavily and watch from outside of a new tabletop hobby if they decide to do so.

My heart bleeds. No, really it does.

We are talking here about the horrific malignant that has been done to the Guard in terms of power level, playbility and viability, not boohooing about some mary sue race losing its bastion. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but quite frankly elday are just being handed buffs like no tomorrow. You have never had it hard and probably never will do - mores the pity.

Okay, both of you deserve being gobsmacked.

Flaming because this is about AM not your gripes on AoS and Fantasy. Plus because the dark eldar are still a thing. Yeah, Commorragh got blown to kingdom come but Vect saw it coming and built a contingency measure. Plenty of kabals are fine. Seriously, if you don't know what the hell happened, don't talk nor pull the headless chicken act out nor start threatening with leaving the hobby (not that anyone should care, honestly, it was a pretty childish comment on your part).

Master of Ordnance because your comment is about the most self-entitled thing I've ever heard once you consider that he's talking on the DARK eldar. Have things easy? Dude, they are THE worst army in the game, and have always had many issues to play. IG hasn't had the issues Deldar have had up until very recently nor has had them in the same intensity. They've always had it hard, harder than the guard by the way.

Now as for the matter at hand and after venting my unwarranted anger I'll say that my theory is that they'll introduce new plastic kits. Everyone and their mother knows that catachans and cadians are uglier than a sin, plus they are old plastics, so it's very within the realm of possibility that a new regiment takes the main mantle. Hopefully krieg or armageddon.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Deathstrike should become a Destroyer Weapon. Make it a Death Star killer. It's not ideal but in the current rules it's what we need. And if there's any weapon that should be a Destroyer it's that.

Agreed and then some!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Far as the imperial guard goes i think you guys are safe enough. I've heard in the latest book for all eldar that

Spoiler:

Commoragh was annihilated by daemons

so yeah i have more room to complain than you guys. It honestly sounds like they're about to either combine all eldar factions or just straight up get rid of dark eldar. Keep in mind imperial guard are safe because they're fairly popular, there's always guard or PDF somewhere and they're pretty major as far as faction go (sisters, tau and dark eldar don't have that luxury but sadly tau being OP gives them stupid popularity that is undeserved outside of that such as in lore or aesthetics). Dark eldar possibly being squatted or 40k being AoS end times destroyed will probably declare the end of my GW gaming and hobbying experience as i've been screwed every which way by GW by now. They can turn 40k and Fantasy into counting your teeth and your toes but i'll just sigh heavily and watch from outside of a new tabletop hobby if they decide to do so.

My heart bleeds. No, really it does.

We are talking here about the horrific malignant that has been done to the Guard in terms of power level, playbility and viability, not boohooing about some mary sue race losing its bastion. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but quite frankly elday are just being handed buffs like no tomorrow. You have never had it hard and probably never will do - mores the pity.

Okay, both of you deserve being gobsmacked.

Flaming because this is about AM not your gripes on AoS and Fantasy. Plus because the dark eldar are still a thing. Yeah, Commorragh got blown to kingdom come but Vect saw it coming and built a contingency measure. Plenty of kabals are fine. Seriously, if you don't know what the hell happened, don't talk nor pull the headless chicken act out nor start threatening with leaving the hobby (not that anyone should care, honestly, it was a pretty childish comment on your part).

Master of Ordnance because your comment is about the most self-entitled thing I've ever heard once you consider that he's talking on the DARK eldar. Have things easy? Dude, they are THE worst army in the game, and have always had many issues to play. IG hasn't had the issues Deldar have had up until very recently nor has had them in the same intensity. They've always had it hard, harder than the guard by the way.

Now as for the matter at hand and after venting my unwarranted anger I'll say that my theory is that they'll introduce new plastic kits. Everyone and their mother knows that catachans and cadians are uglier than a sin, plus they are old plastics, so it's very within the realm of possibility that a new regiment takes the main mantle. Hopefully krieg or armageddon.

Honestly everyone in my store are guessing guard are going to go the militarum tempestus route when 8th rolls around. I could see GW doing it. Or they are going to take the spot light more this is just my theory.

I know this is a eldar picture but do you see any normal guard? Why did they use tempestus when they could of easily did cadians because its fall of cadia.

CplPunishment wrote:Changes I would make:
*Vox casters: re-roll orders within command range plus RECIEVE ORDERS OUTSIDE THIS RANGE (no reroll).

Easier option is just to remove any friggin' requirement to roll for Orders.

*Bring back medusa colossus and griffon

Buy a FW book. They're still in there.

*Sentries doctrine for veterans confers stealth, scout, infiltrate, and defensive grenades for 15-20pts

Why does "Sentries" turn Veterans into Scouts?

*power swords 5pts, other power weapons 10 and powerfists 15. That's all they're worth in the hands of a guardsman

Power weapons, period, as 5 points. Powerfists 10 points.

*edit special weapon squads so that models with a demo charge don't lose their lasgun. While we're at it, allow them to take shotguns or pistol&ccw instead of lasguns.

So basically just make a 6 man Veteran Squad...?

*go back to an armory system for giving characters wargear. *Bring back options like the stormbolter.

There is an armory system for giving characters wargear.

It's on page 89 of Codex: Astra Militarum.

*Give priests back the eviscerator for 15 points plus other options they once had.

If they release a new kit with an Eviscerator, you'll get it back.

Otherwise, no dice.

*allow any squad that can take a heavy weapons team (except heavy weapon squads) to give one guardsman a heavy flamer or heavy stubber.

Heavy Flamers are special weapons, not heavy.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Heavy Stubbers, whenever we get an actual book update.

*Make Storm Troopers Ld8 again. Give them access to melta bombs again. Give each one a pistol, hotshot lasgun and ccw standard. Give them infiltrate, scout and deep strike.

Mmm...no.

Scions have LD8 thanks to their Tempestors and Tempestor Primes. Additionally, what is with this obsession with giving shooty armies CC options?

*give rough riders doctrinal options such as: Grenadiers:4+ save; demolitions: one demo charge and everybody has melta bombs

Delete Rough Riders. Add something better.

*Leman Russ regains Lumbering Behemoth rule

Which will do literally nothing until they change vehicle rules.

*multimelta on sentinels for 10pts. Give them back the chainsaw upgrade!

Again with the obsession for CC...

*give vanquisher a dual fire option like 3rd ed for more points of course.

Doesn't fix the Vanquisher.

Needs higher ROF.

*make Harker worth 55pts or reduce his cost
*return Marbo but at a higher cost
*reduce Colonel Straken's price tag

Or branch them off into their own Codex.

*give us back the last chancers?

Why? Seriously, what's the point?

*buff ratlings or make them cheaper

Or remove them as an individual unit and make them part of the Platoon structure.

*reduce price of ogryns

I don't think these requests are unreasonable. What do y'all think?

I think most of them are just silly. There's a ton of ways to make Guard viable by just bandaiding things, but putting it bluntly?

CplPunishment wrote:@Kanluwen. Practically EVERY Codex GW has ever printed has had rules for units and/or wargear upgrades that they never made sculpts for or were out of production. This Planet is a very big and diverse place--much like the Imperial guard--and yes there *are* lots of people who still use sub-optimal out of production units because they like a challenge or think it's cool. I like a challenge, and I think they look cool in my Drookian Fen Guard army (I greenstuffed kilts on them and did some head swaps). Are you really telling me that you care so little about the hard work that others put into their armies that you would push for the unnecessary removal of a unit that many people still use?

I care so little about the hard work that others put into their armies when that hard work does nothing but hobble my army, yes.

You like snipers on guardsmen? I do too. I have eight in my Catachan army. In order to put as many in my Drookian Fen Guard army, I would need to sculpt 5-10 more kilts--something I don't have time for. Halflings fit nicely with the Celtic aesthetic of my army and have tended to be the best/most cost-effective snipers in the IG. Yes, I understand that might have changed recently, but rules are fluid in this game and ratlings could get buffed.

Not to a point of ever being useful. And the design team considers Ratlings to be the "Sniper Teams" of the Astra Militarum book.

So until they're dead and buried as a separate unit, I won't get something that doesn't suck. Read the Detachment 99 list and its treatment of Elysian Sniper Teams sometime. You'll thank me for campaigning for Ratlings to get ditched.

I see nothing unreasonable with my position and I fail to see how it affects you or anyone else negatively.

And that's the problem. You're so concerned with "I want to play with all of my models" or "If they remove X as a unit, I won't be able to play them!"(which is nonsense, you still would be able to use Ratlings as the "new" Sniper Teams without people getting on your case) that you're failing to see the forest for the trees.

Guard suck. They SUCK right now.

And you know why? Because GW has been too busy walking on eggshells to keep the old grognards complacent that they haven't done a single damn thing to make the Guard able to compete in the current environment.

I've been involved in this exact same discussion time and time and time again. And it always comes down to a bunch of people who feel that they should be catered to and every single one of their models should remain viable, but by the way our army sucks so how about making my models that are a big part of the reason why our army sucks viable...

You want Rough Riders viable? Cool. I want them dumped and replaced with a non-combat unit. The Guard don't need some CC beast charge unit or other such nonsense. They need utility units.

Future War Cultist wrote:The Deathstrike should become a Destroyer Weapon. Make it a Death Star killer. It's not ideal but in the current rules it's what we need. And if there's any weapon that should be a Destroyer it's that.

Yes, a blast weapon is a death star killer...when most death stars have Invisibility on them meaning they cannot be hit by a Deathstrike.

You want to give Guard a way to deal with Invis Deathstars? The answer isn't to make Deathstrikes a D weapon.

It's to make it so that Guard artillery and blast weapons can target a position on the board rather than requiring targeting an enemy unit.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 shinros wrote:


Honestly everyone in my store are guessing guard are going to go the militarum tempestus route when 8th rolls around. I could see GW doing it. Or they are going to take the spot light more this is just my theory.

I know this is a eldar picture but do you see any normal guard? Why did they use tempestus when they could of easily did cadians because its fall of cadia.

Spoiler:

They used Militarum Tempestus because Inquisitor Greyfax had a bodyguard of Kappic Eagles with her.
She escaped from Cadia, with her bodyguard.

The Cadians who got evacuated from the surface of Cadia also were part of the fleet element that actually got out of the Cadian system.
Abaddon's fleet went after Cawl's ship hard.

That's how Cawl, his Skitarii/Mechanicus, Celestine, Greyfax, and the Black Templars ended up on the planet where they linked up with Yvraine and her forces.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Deathstrike should become a Destroyer Weapon. Make it a Death Star killer. It's not ideal but in the current rules it's what we need. And if there's any weapon that should be a Destroyer it's that.

Agreed and then some!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Far as the imperial guard goes i think you guys are safe enough. I've heard in the latest book for all eldar that

Spoiler:

Commoragh was annihilated by daemons

so yeah i have more room to complain than you guys. It honestly sounds like they're about to either combine all eldar factions or just straight up get rid of dark eldar. Keep in mind imperial guard are safe because they're fairly popular, there's always guard or PDF somewhere and they're pretty major as far as faction go (sisters, tau and dark eldar don't have that luxury but sadly tau being OP gives them stupid popularity that is undeserved outside of that such as in lore or aesthetics). Dark eldar possibly being squatted or 40k being AoS end times destroyed will probably declare the end of my GW gaming and hobbying experience as i've been screwed every which way by GW by now. They can turn 40k and Fantasy into counting your teeth and your toes but i'll just sigh heavily and watch from outside of a new tabletop hobby if they decide to do so.

My heart bleeds. No, really it does.

We are talking here about the horrific malignant that has been done to the Guard in terms of power level, playbility and viability, not boohooing about some mary sue race losing its bastion. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but quite frankly elday are just being handed buffs like no tomorrow. You have never had it hard and probably never will do - mores the pity.

Was talking Dark Eldar dude which may get squatted and don't have those buffs. Guard are much safer. I used to play them in 5th where they were the most OP faction around. Dark eldar before their 5th ed book had a ugly as sin model line. I finally got into them in 7th edition when riptide and stormsurge were commonplace. They excel at facing dark eldar.

Anyway this is about guard and i think you guys are safe. You still get good looking models and you can still have wall emplacements and other stuff to help you. Guard seems better off.

--------

@Lord Kragan: You didn't go through End Times in fantasy. I was screwed there and a lot of what is going on in 40k end times mirrors Fantasy's end times. That scares the living crap out of me. I spent over a thousand dollars in fantasy and my army faction in fantasy STILL hasn't been updated (with a good new codex and models) with the exception of End Times few models. They very much may make all eldar into one batch (something i don't want but wouldn't be shocked) or they could squat them. However i'm worried 40k will get AoS-ified and that's not something i spent thousands of dollars to have happen to me.

The guard which this is about have it semi-bad. Perhaps they'll wear a different color scheme or maybe we'll get a new main guard regiment. However guard will always be there in some form. They are the backbone of the imperium. As long as the imperium exists so will they. Dark eldar aren't so lucky.

I apologize for going off topic but even being a previous guard player i'm not as afraid for them as dark eldar (though i admit being the punching bag of 40k as guard in the fluff is annoying).

No, I just shelled a hundred bucks in orcs (lucky me I had begun with black orcs, I just loved their mean look) and followed ET from beginning to end. You're right, you're special.

But I digress, the thing is that has no bearing in the current discussion which is what will happen to the astra militarum. Where we both agree, and thus is a moot point.

*buff ratlings or make them cheaper

Or remove them as an individual unit and make them part of the Platoon structure.

Actually if you add them to the Platoon Structure you could add some of their lore benefits, Ratlings are very well liked for their cooking (yeah yeah hobbit stuff) but they could provide a LD buff while they are inside a Platoon

Though I wonder why people are thinking Guard are getting outright squatted or have NEVER been strong.. Did people just forget the Leafblower Guard from 5+? They just got screwed in their next few codex's.

Lord Kragan wrote:
No, I just shelled a hundred bucks in orcs (lucky me I had begun with black orcs, I just loved their mean look) and followed ET from beginning to end. You're right, you're special.

But I digress, the thing is that has no bearing in the current discussion which is what will happen to the astra militarum. Where we both agree, and thus is a moot point.

I'm not saying i'm special. Bretonnia, beastmen, etc. had it far worse.

I agree though it's about imperial guard and they have gotten fairly screwed. If 40k end times mirrors fantasy all bad guy factions will do some damage except dark eldar and maybe orks or nids (due to time constraints or something stupid). Nids and orks might get a combined book where the hordes screw over the galaxy. Who knows. Greenies got screwed in Fantasy but undead got a lot so maybe necrons. Guess we'll see.

For what it's worth i do feel a bit bad for guard as it's what i played and you guys are the punching bags of 40k in the lore. However my current army issues just hit me harder right now.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Deathstrike should become a Destroyer Weapon. Make it a Death Star killer. It's not ideal but in the current rules it's what we need. And if there's any weapon that should be a Destroyer it's that.

Indeed. Honestly it feels like the only reason it's not a D-weapon is that at the time it was made they were restricted to apocalypse, whereas nowadays they're in the normal game.

It should be d with a +2 to the table for the innermost part of the blast.

@ Kanluwen

A Deathstrike missile should be a Destroyer weapon anyway.

@ Melissia

Yeah, it was released too early.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Kanluwen

A Deathstrike missile should be a Destroyer weapon anyway.

Stormsurges have a weapon literally called a Destroyer Missile that is not Strength D without expending a Markerlight token.
In any regards, tell me again how Strength D Apocalyptic Blasts defeat Invisible death stars?

I get that you might think it needs to be Strength D, but I'd much rather see a downshift from Strength D outside of melee weapons or requirements that have to be met.

The Stormsurge and its Markerlight requirement, for example, or the sliding range scale.

@ Melissia
Yeah, it was released too early.

Nah. It's simply a case of them not thinking that a D Apocalyptic Blast was appropriate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

*buff ratlings or make them cheaper

Or remove them as an individual unit and make them part of the Platoon structure.

Actually if you add them to the Platoon Structure you could add some of their lore benefits, Ratlings are very well liked for their cooking (yeah yeah hobbit stuff) but they could provide a LD buff while they are inside a Platoon

Though I wonder why people are thinking Guard are getting outright squatted or have NEVER been strong.. Did people just forget the Leafblower Guard from 5+? They just got screwed in their next few codex's.

To be fair, Leafblower Guard wasn't really a Guard list for all intents and purposes.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Stormsurges have a weapon literally called a Destroyer Missile that is not Strength D without expending a Markerlight token.
In any regards, tell me again how Strength D Apocalyptic Blasts defeat Invisible death stars?

Yeah, we all know how messed up Invisibility is. Still doesn't justify not giving Destroyer to the Deathstrike.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nah. It's simply a case of them not thinking that a D Apocalyptic Blast was appropriate.

What's Robin Cruddace like in person?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Though I wonder why people are thinking Guard are getting outright squatted or have NEVER been strong.. Did people just forget the Leafblower Guard from 5+? They just got screwed in their next few codex's.

Well, yes, Leafblower was strong. Provided you where playing at 2K+. And allowing allies. And had not come prepared.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


I apologize for going off topic but even being a previous guard player i'm not as afraid for them as dark eldar (though i admit being the punching bag of 40k as guard in the fluff is annoying).

Oh gak, I feel like a bit of a dick now - I saw eldar and thought Eldar, not Dark Eldar.
You guys have had it rough.

As to the Deathstrike, it really need to be D+2.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Stormsurges have a weapon literally called a Destroyer Missile that is not Strength D without expending a Markerlight token.
In any regards, tell me again how Strength D Apocalyptic Blasts defeat Invisible death stars?

Yeah, we all know how messed up Invisibility is. Still doesn't justify not giving Destroyer to the Deathstrike.

It does when you're trying to lower the number of Destroyer weapons, period.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nah. It's simply a case of them not thinking that a D Apocalyptic Blast was appropriate.

What's Robin Cruddace like in person?

Look back at how many items around that point in time had Strength D as ranged. It wasn't much.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:


Yeah, we all know how messed up Invisibility is. Still doesn't justify not giving Destroyer to the Deathstrike.

It does when you're trying to lower the number of Destroyer weapons, period.

This, as well as the fact that the standard Plasma Warhead on a Deathstrike isn't actually strong enough to justify being a D Weapon.

The game neèds far more d weapons not less.

Make it so d blasts ignore invis. Because nukes.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:


Yeah, we all know how messed up Invisibility is. Still doesn't justify not giving Destroyer to the Deathstrike.

It does when you're trying to lower the number of Destroyer weapons, period.

This, as well as the fact that the standard Plasma Warhead on a Deathstrike isn't actually strong enough to justify being a D Weapon.

Um, no. If you want to go by fluff perspective? Then absolutely yes, it should be D based on the warhead.
But I don't want a proliferation of D weapons. I want a reduction in them.

I want to see alternate solutions to just slapping Strength D on crap. An example is a rule like this for the Deathstrike:

Mass Destruction: The devastation caused by the impact of a Deathstrike Missile is not solely counted in the number of lives snuffed out. It's also the amount of material and territory rendered nigh useless by the destructive force of the blast.

Any cover or fortifications which were beneath the blast template permanently reduce the cover saves granted to models by half. Use the markers included with your Deathstrike Launcher kit to keep track of this.

It would require adding a new sprue to the Deathstrike/Manticore box, something that is just a bunch of craters with bits of missile sticking out of it or something of that nature.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Though I wonder why people are thinking Guard are getting outright squatted or have NEVER been strong.. Did people just forget the Leafblower Guard from 5+? They just got screwed in their next few codex's.

Well, yes, Leafblower was strong. Provided you where playing at 2K+. And allowing allies. And had not come prepared.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


I apologize for going off topic but even being a previous guard player i'm not as afraid for them as dark eldar (though i admit being the punching bag of 40k as guard in the fluff is annoying).

Oh gak, I feel like a bit of a dick now - I saw eldar and thought Eldar, not Dark Eldar.
You guys have had it rough.

It's fine and to be fair i chose to be in the position to play dark eldar. I had admired them when i came in but wanted to wait for a re-vamp which came at 5th. I then went to Fantasy with skaven and didn't get to do dark eldar yet. When Fantasy died i went to dark eldar. I suppose i could've gone for mechanicus or stormtroopers or something but i've had to deal with dark eldar at least over a year. I didn't want to choose an army that was OP but i didn't want one that sucked either. Stormtroopers though cool don't have a large enough model line for me to want them.

Honestly i haven't fought eldar yet but guard and tau are hard fights for us. I can even somewhat do well vs necron decurion in kill points matches (not win but get really, really close). Tau however i only play when i'll get no other game. Nothing is as crushing as facing tau (with formations of 2 stormsurge, a riptide, stealth suits and 2 ghostkeel with shadowsun) with non-covens dark eldar esp. when you don't get to go first. I don't even think the tau player will put on the baby gloves either and he has been considered by some to cheat.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Um, no. If you want to go by fluff perspective? Then absolutely yes, it should be D based on the warhead.

For a Plasma Warhead? I think S10, AP1, Apoc Template, Ordnance, Ignores Cover is enough for that, although I guess if the explosion was prolonged enough, the payload could melt the area of impact to a congealed pile of slag.

If they allow you to take a Titan Warhead, that would at least have to be a D weapon.

Mass Destruction: The devastation caused by the impact of a Deathstrike Missile is not solely counted in the number of lives snuffed out. It's also the amount of material and territory rendered nigh useless by the destructive force of the blast.

Any cover or fortifications which were beneath the blast template permanently reduce the cover saves granted to models by half. Use the markers included with your Deathstrike Launcher kit to keep track of this.

It would require adding a new sprue to the Deathstrike/Manticore box, something that is just a bunch of craters with bits of missile sticking out of it or something of that nature.

Sounds like an interesting rule for a more powerful warhead (does the Imperium have anything nuclear? if so that'd be perfect), although you would not necessarily have to change the terrain - you could just use some basic markers instead, since you also need to consider making alternate "flattened" terrain pieces for a variety of shapes, such as barricades.

I also want to see a biological warhead option, though I have no ideas myself on how to implement it rules wise.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Um, no. If you want to go by fluff perspective? Then absolutely yes, it should be D based on the warhead.
But I don't want a proliferation of D weapons. I want a reduction in them.

I want to see alternate solutions to just slapping Strength D on crap. An example is a rule like this for the Deathstrike:

Mass Destruction: The devastation caused by the impact of a Deathstrike Missile is not solely counted in the number of lives snuffed out. It's also the amount of material and territory rendered nigh useless by the destructive force of the blast.

Any cover or fortifications which were beneath the blast template permanently reduce the cover saves granted to models by half. Use the markers included with your Deathstrike Launcher kit to keep track of this.

It would require adding a new sprue to the Deathstrike/Manticore box, something that is just a bunch of craters with bits of missile sticking out of it or something of that nature.

This isn't a good solution. 40k is convoluted enough already.

But look, you want less D weaponry in the game. I want one extra. Let's just leave it at that.

Anyway, I think Hyrdas could have interceptor. They're essentially mobile versions of the aegis quad cannon so it makes sense to me. However, be aware that I think 40k is completely screwed up at present and I would consider these fixes to be sticky plasters at best.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Um, no. If you want to go by fluff perspective? Then absolutely yes, it should be D based on the warhead.
But I don't want a proliferation of D weapons. I want a reduction in them.

I want to see alternate solutions to just slapping Strength D on crap. An example is a rule like this for the Deathstrike:

Mass Destruction: The devastation caused by the impact of a Deathstrike Missile is not solely counted in the number of lives snuffed out. It's also the amount of material and territory rendered nigh useless by the destructive force of the blast.

Any cover or fortifications which were beneath the blast template permanently reduce the cover saves granted to models by half. Use the markers included with your Deathstrike Launcher kit to keep track of this.

It would require adding a new sprue to the Deathstrike/Manticore box, something that is just a bunch of craters with bits of missile sticking out of it or something of that nature.

This isn't a good solution. 40k is convoluted enough already.

It's not as convoluted as you're making it out to be. You place the markers around where the template hit.

Since you have to place the template and make note of what it hit anyway...

But look, you want less D weaponry in the game. I want one extra. Let's just leave it at that.

I want D weaponry restricted to extremely specific situations.

That's all.

Anyway, I think Hyrdas could have interceptor. They're essentially mobile versions of the aegis quad cannon so it makes sense to me. However, be aware that I think 40k is completely screwed up at present and I would consider these fixes to be sticky plasters at best.

The reason people don't take Hydras isn't because they lack Interceptor.

It's because they have Skyfire.

Give them the Auto-Targeting Systems from the FW Hydra and rewrite Skyfire to:

Skyfire: Weapons with this special rule can elect to fire at ground targets or a selection of non-ground targets at their normal Ballistic Skill. Upon declaration of which mode it is firing in, the weapon cannot change fire modes until the controlling player's next turn.

Skyfire affects Jetbikes, Flying Monstrous Creatures, Flying Gargantuan Creatures, Skimmers, Flyers, Superheavy Skimmers, and Superheavy Flyers.

 Kanluwen wrote:
what is with this obsession with giving shooty armies CC options?

The same obsession they have with giving assaulty armies shooting options. It adds variety to the internal balance of the army.

The problem isn't when they do it. The problem is when they do it poorly.

Str 10 is a joke now. We need more D weapons.

The problem there is the constant escalation. Guard don't need more D weapons (okay, maybe the Deathstrike Missile really should be, but that's it), the game as a whole needs less.

 Fafnir wrote:
The problem there is the constant escalation. Guard don't need more D weapons (okay, maybe the Deathstrike Missile really should be, but that's it), the game as a whole needs less.

I disagree, given the ineffectiveness of most heavy weapons, particularly imperial ones.

Martel732 wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
The problem there is the constant escalation. Guard don't need more D weapons (okay, maybe the Deathstrike Missile really should be, but that's it), the game as a whole needs less.

I disagree, given the ineffectiveness of most heavy weapons, particularly imperial ones.

it's mostly in effective due to MC spam

Well, yes, Leafblower was strong. Provided you where playing at 2K+. And allowing allies. And had not come prepared.

Allowing Allies.. A thing that didn't exist in 5th edition? Or did something happen mid 5th edition that I missed given the Chimera/tank spam?

Course I didn't see much of IG myself, most tended to use Mech Wolves due to the overall cheaper then all other SM rules of that edition.

MC creatures also need mayor reworking. I imagine them having progressive damage system, like vehicles have. Now they are 100% combat effective until their death. Not like vehicles that can get immobilised, stunned or have weapon destroyed.

It just feeld odd when you hit a carnifex with battlecannon, it just switches the dice and rumbles on like nothing happend.

This should decrease the amount of MC spam, thus decrease the power creep of the game, including less D weapons.

 Fafnir wrote:
The problem there is the constant escalation. Guard don't need more D weapons (okay, maybe the Deathstrike Missile really should be, but that's it), the game as a whole needs less.

D weapons are the answer to bringing unkillable characters or huge units.

They are the paper to the rock of "one big badass".

They are worthless against MSU and mass cheapies, for which there are other answers, like flamers and large blasts.

Why would you want to remove strength D?

Just because it breaks your favorite "one big badass" ?