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I appreciate the baseless insinuation, but no, it has nothing to do with my 'one big badass.'

As I said, it's the constant escalation to bigger and better toys. Strength D is just another stepping stone in that constant arms race that has left 40k in such an unhealthy state, in addition to the ever stronger 'one big badasses' that I apparently am so obsessed about using.

morgoth wrote:

Why would you want to remove strength D?

Just because it breaks your favorite "one big badass" ?

Well, for me, it's because I do not believe that superheavies, D weapons, Gargantuan, etc etc belong in a game of 40K. And I play IG and Sisters of Battle, usually with a single CAD (Force Org), no allies, no formations, etc, so no "one big badass". Again, because I want to play 40K, not Apocalypse. But that's just an old greybeard's opinion... I'd like to see the game return to a skirmish level game, and leave all that other stuff for Apoc style gaming. But oh well...

Even though I think that the Deathstrike missile needs destroyer, it is a symptom of how bad things have gotten in 40k. I say that 40k itself needs fixed before you can fix any army within it, including the IG.

 don_mondo wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Why would you want to remove strength D?

Just because it breaks your favorite "one big badass" ?

Well, for me, it's because I do not believe that superheavies, D weapons, Gargantuan, etc etc belong in a game of 40K. And I play IG and Sisters of Battle, usually with a single CAD (Force Org), no allies, no formations, etc, so no "one big badass". Again, because I want to play 40K, not Apocalypse. But that's just an old greybeard's opinion... I'd like to see the game return to a skirmish level game, and leave all that other stuff for Apoc style gaming. But oh well...

Basically this. I know it would be waaaay too much to ask for (which says a lot), but based on fluff I feel like deathstrike should be one of the only Str D weapons out there. After all, it's a fairly expensive single shot weapon that scatters on IG BS. Hardly a gamebreaking unit even with the buff.

That and/or pay a hefty fee to make it vortex, like those mentioned in the codex entry.

Aren't Deathstrikes meant to be nuclear? Seems D worthy to
me.

Nah.

Variety of warheads (Multiple Barrage warhead, Warp, and Plasma if memory serves from Epic. Don't think they ever got Harpoon?)

Defo not Nuclear.

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Aren't Deathstrikes meant to be nuclear? Seems D worthy to
me.

The most common type of warhead used with a Deathstrike Launcher is a Plasma Warhead. Definitely highly destructive, debatable on whether it is worthy of being a D weapon as opposed to S 10

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nah.

Variety of warheads (Multiple Barrage warhead, Warp, and Plasma if memory serves from Epic. Don't think they ever got Harpoon?)

Defo not Nuclear.

Plasma, Vortex, Biological and Titan Killing Warheads are the only ones I'm aware of, of which the game only uses two (Plasma and Vortex). If a nuclear warhead does exist, I'd certainly argue for that to be a destroyer weapon.

I'd make it nuclear. Because feth Xenos.

Well, maybe it should have several profiles...
say, you pick a missile before firing:

Cluster/multi barrage
S8 AP4 Ordnance 8 10" blast

Plasma Warhead
SD+2 AP1 Ordnance 1 10+3D6" blast

Vortex
S- AP- 10" blast, Vortex
[Vortex - any model under the template, and any terrain piece touched by it, is removed from play. Do not remove the marker, instead leave it in play and at the start of each turn roll a D6: 1; remove the marker from play, 2 to 5; scatter the marker 2D6" in a random direction with a hit counting as no move, 6; scatter the marker as above, and then place another marker on the board where the marker began its move and scatter it too]

Incineration
S7 AP3 Ordnance 1 16+3D6" blast, Ignores Cover

Choosing a warhead before firing might be the way to go. I had an idea of giving the Deathstrike the ability to "purchase" a certain warhead before the game starts, but just choosing would probably work better

One could make D warheads for the deathstrike that represent nukes, and have them be very potent. Along with this, one could incur a -1 VP penalty for each nuke deployed as the battle becomes increasingly pyhrric. This would encourage smart usage of D weaponry.

Awhile ago my friends came up with the idea that it should have a 'ground zero' rule, where you place the regular apocalypse blast and resolve it, then a regular blast in the center of the apocalyptic blast and resolve the smaller blast template as str D.

edited by moderator

Please keep in mind that Rule Number One is Be Polite. Thanks!

Rule no.1, cpl...

CplPunishment wrote:
Take a deep breath and get over yourself.

Only one person here needs to do that.

In my view, GW sucked all the diversity out by making some choices strictly better than others by huge margins.

I don't touch BA terminators or land raiders or vanguards. Does that make me THAT guy?

@Kanluwen
I am a casual gamer/hobbyist. You strike me as a more competitive type. Because of this, I doubt that we will ever agree.

Do casual players not care if their units are effective? I don't get why that distinction is important.

 General Annoyance wrote:
Rule no.1, cpl...

Yeah my bad. I got a little hot headed there. I apologize Kanluwen.

@Master of Ordnance, those blast radii seem awfully big to me, but the actual damage profiles and special rules I'm for the most part good with. I wouldn't create an extra rule for vortex scatter, though, even regular rules for vortex are rarely used.

CplPunishment wrote:
@Kanluwen
I am a casual gamer/hobbyist. You strike me as a more competitive type. Because of this, I doubt that we will ever agree.

I'm actually a fairly casual person.

Guard were my first army and are near and dear to my heart. Hence why I have very strong opinions. I've seen several editions of this game turn my Guard from a force which required a bit of a learning curve to an army that is a joke now. Most of that can be, and always will be, tied to the insistence of retaining "legacy" items and points costs.

I get that you might have taken some time to make an army truly yours, but at this juncture? Nothing about Guard is fun. It's a chore army and the reason why I've packed everything up and have two huge bins of unbuilt stuff(one bin is filled to the brim with infantry even! the other is tanks) and several drawers with assorted bits and bobs(one drawer is nothing but Kasrkin. another is Sentinels and parts for an Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company). It's why I've been playing Skitarii and started a Tau army over the holidays.

You might think that I'm just saying "I don't care how much work you put into your army". That's fine. I'm trying to tear the whole damn book down and start from scratch. I've been over this topic far too many times to really be exceedingly friendly/delightful about it. There's no salvaging this book or some of these relic units, not without a complete overhaul to the mechanics of 40k as it stands.

Martel732 wrote:
Do casual players not care if their units are effective? I don't get why that distinction is important.

I wouldn't say that. My argument was not for all units to be terrible, but that they shouldn't be excised if they're not buffed.

What does the future hold for the Imperial Guard?

It's a small suggestion but I think that Scions should have Scout. Or maybe just the Taurox Prime that carries them. One thing that made us great in 5th ed. was the amount of outflankers we had. So we should try to get that back. This is what Scions should be doing. Outflanking and deep striking.

Oh, and please please please give them the ability to take three specials. Do what skitarri do. Two, becoming three if the squad is 10 strong.

And points decreases too.

Giving vehicles the option to take explosive reactive armour that will always deflect a hit once on each side would make the vehicles a lot more survivable.

Well cadia is gone and planet rambo looks to be next so at the very least there maybe some decent infantry models in there future.

Other than that Guard waxes and wanes with the vehicle rules more than anything so fingers crossed for 8th.

SeanDrake wrote:
Well cadia is gone and planet rambo looks to be next so at the very least there maybe some decent infantry models in there future.

Cadia, the planet, is gone.

Cadians are not. A sizeable chunk of the Cadians planetside got evacuated during "The Fall of Cadia"...

And that's not taking into account the whole "Not all Cadians were on Cadia" thing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Well cadia is gone and planet rambo looks to be next so at the very least there maybe some decent infantry models in there future.

Cadia, the planet, is gone.

Cadians are not. A sizeable chunk of the Cadians planetside got evacuated during "The Fall of Cadia"...

And that's not taking into account the whole "Not all Cadians were on Cadia" thing.

Well true but it specifically calls out that the last of the whiteshield regiments gets killed with none of them off planet. As such given the massive attritonal rate for imperial forces the cadians are done.

They really aren't, because that's the last of the whiteshield regiments on Cadia, not in the galaxy. Other Cadian units which have settled on other worlds would have them.

Wasn't the number like only 1 in 9 regiments stayed on cadia. Which isn't significant since it was a pure regimental hive world.

Also I don't think the end of the cadia planet is the same as a the end of the cadia system regimental tide.

I hope pask made it off the planet, I hope creed pokeball gets released, and I expect a new basilisk kit with another artillery variant. Beyond that maybe rough riders plastics, servitors are due and popular again, I don't see ratlings getting love. I also see a quick money grab with some type of small artillery variant (who knows rapier laser, thudd gun, or some made up frag cannon artillery)