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I’d like to see a ‘rationalised’ version, much like how the modern Warlord is much more like the old Beetlebacks than some people would care to admit. At the very least add some thigh armour…

That said, what I really want in an Imperator is even-more-interesting choices in combat. Like tying the plasma annihilator’s strength to the reactor level (i.e. the hotter the reactor the stronger the shot) so you have some princeps deliberately running into the red to maximise firepower. Also, a Maniple-in-a-box scale of firepower with the ability to out-duel a maxed out Myrmidon maniple and a points cost to match.

 zedmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Can you take that discussion to another thread?

Why? It’s a directly on-topic response to a comment made during the open day. If one of the team working on Titanicus has a weirdly out of scale idea of how big an imperator is, that’s pretty pertinent to point out.

Not really. You're arguing scales on a Titan that probably hasn't been fully thought about yet. Neither news nor a rumour

It's not like it's new titan never seen before. 55m, scaled up from warlord gets you to 24cm. 1cm shorter than 40k warhound titan so if comes in resin we are looking over 300 pounds for one. Who knows about plastic price as i don't think gw has yet got to plastic warhound sized kits have they if we are lucky not too much more than 100 pounds.

Good to see AT has a bright future.

The mere mention of new Knight stuff and even a cough for Armigers is welcome. The mobile app for command terminals is an incredibly brilliant idea for this game and would remove the hassle of additional terminals and cards. As a programmer myself I can write my own for android, but such a thing would be very useful for many players out there.

For a Knight only force the current range is missing a Knight that delivers enough firepower to contend with enemy Titans. Surely that means the Acastus is due for release sooner rather than later?

The Imperitor Titan should be in this game, considering its a game designed for Titan-scale battles.

Only disappointment is that there is still no affordable alternative to the Grand Master Edition save for a rule set that requires additional purchases just to get started. This was a missed opportunity to get more players interested...

tneva82 wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

changemod wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Can you take that discussion to another thread?

Why? It’s a directly on-topic response to a comment made during the open day. If one of the team working on Titanicus has a weirdly out of scale idea of how big an imperator is, that’s pretty pertinent to point out.

Not really. You're arguing scales on a Titan that probably hasn't been fully thought about yet. Neither news nor a rumour

It's not like it's new titan never seen before. 55m, scaled up from warlord gets you to 24cm. 1cm shorter than 40k warhound titan so if comes in resin we are looking over 300 pounds for one. Who knows about plastic price as i don't think gw has yet got to plastic warhound sized kits have they if we are lucky not too much more than 100 pounds.

Again though, you’re going purely by height rather than bulk. As a three dimensional object, an imperator the same height as an acastus knight would use a lot less resin.

I wish they could have done the titan weapons along the lines of the 40k character clams-single weapon upgrades with the arms, armor, and weapons all on a single plastic sprue rather than the resin plastic,,, yea,, cost to set up and all, but then I can bet the would sell more of them individually than they do of some of the 40k character models that are one per army... heck I'm all about 3-4 quake cannons... and such..

I wonder who the other six Knight houses in Doom of Molech will be? I haven't read Vengeful spirit but a quick browse of the Lexicanum article for the battle gives eight named houses(including Devine) as being present. Some of which would struggle to field more than a couple of banners in an AT game. IMO it seems likely that there will be some "additions" to the forces present.

Me?

I really don’t want to see an Imperator in Adeptus Titanicus, just too big, and too unwieldy.

Yes it would be nice to have an updated and upscaled model, of course it would. But I just don’t think it fits the scope of the game. It’s be so big and plodding, an opponent just has to keep out of its arc of fire. One way or the other, as the game stands, it’d be a very repetitive experience.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Me?

I really don’t want to see an Imperator in Adeptus Titanicus, just too big, and too unwieldy.

Yes it would be nice to have an updated and upscaled model, of course it would. But I just don’t think it fits the scope of the game. It’s be so big and plodding, an opponent just has to keep out of its arc of fire. One way or the other, as the game stands, it’d be a very repetitive experience.

Your reasoning is sound( unless it has a very wide AOF ) but if they already have Warlords in regular 40K then this chap definitely makes more sense in AT.

Just think they’re too big.

My fear is that they’d be akin to Epic ships in X-Wing. Lovely models, but barely usable in day to day play, and so dominating of a game they’re involved in the become the game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Just think they’re too big.

My fear is that they’d be akin to Epic ships in X-Wing. Lovely models, but barely usable in day to day play, and so dominating of a game they’re involved in the become the game.

Agreed. Probably one best suited for very large games at gatherings and tournaments.

Personally, I feel the Warlord is big enough for a heavy hitter.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Me?

I really don’t want to see an Imperator in Adeptus Titanicus, just too big, and too unwieldy.

Yes it would be nice to have an updated and upscaled model, of course it would. But I just don’t think it fits the scope of the game. It’s be so big and plodding, an opponent just has to keep out of its arc of fire. One way or the other, as the game stands, it’d be a very repetitive experience.

I wouldn't mind seeing it, but it should be the AT equivalent of an Apocalypse game, something to bust out for scenario-driven games on special occasions.

Of course this is GW, who haven't recognised the meaning of the words "self control" for 15+ years, so if we do get them they'll be part of standard play no doubt. Perfect example of the issue - the one thing I disliked in all that genuinely fantastic news is them "expanding" the Ordo Sinister. Just as with what happened in 40K with the Grey Knights, they take something special and interesting and dilute it to the point it's just the normie version with a little twist.

Everything else though, brilliant.

Seems like Titanicus is quite the seller. Flying off the shelves seems to be apt

From M R Parker on B&C

Oh, and another tidbit from the Titanicus seminar. A number of the Transfer sheets, Command Slates and card packs are appearing as either No Longer Available or have disappeared completely from the online store. This isn't because they've stopped doing them, on the contrary. It's because there has been so much demand that they've massively oversold what they were expecting - Andy Hoare gave the comparison of having a projected years worth of stock and having it sell within a month. They're working on getting more in stock ASAP.

So since they would never greenlight anything that they didn't expect to sell without nice profit they are making tons of profit on this thing.

Groovy. Hopefully that encourages GW to give them resources to do xenos titans and even epic later. Demand is there. Just provide the supply!

 Commander Cain wrote:
It might just be the paint scheme but those new buildings look like they are home to a Disney princess...

It’s a small world after all .

People seem to forget that Titan Legions ran with Imperators and Mega Gartants without issue and that GW does make several plastic kits much bigger than the current Warlord. There's ample chance of them releasing and doing a faithful towering Imperator.

The only barrier would likely be that it would breach the £100 price barrier; though I think AT might get away with that.

Were the titan legion rules original AT level or simplified titan combat level?

And no warhound titan level plastic kit yet. So this would be first in that one. So imperator will more likely be resin titan.

tneva82 wrote:
Were the titan legion rules original AT level or simplified titan combat level?

And no warhound titan level plastic kit yet. So this would be first in that one. So imperator will more likely be resin titan.

The original Titan Legion rules and models for the Imperator came with a big card sheet that had a diagram of it. You could use that to track power allocations and damage and more. So yep they were the detailed deep rules that AT has (or at least similar level of micro control). Indeed power balance was a big part of those rules between shields, repair, weapons etc....

Epic 40K followed that with a bigger focus on tanks and infantry and only went up to Warlord class titans before it died. They had more streamlined rules to suit the fact that you had lots of other models to control and heavy micro just wasn't suitable for the titans then.

Would an Imperator really be bigger than a Wraithknight? It would potentially be more bulky, surely we'd be talking Wraithknight -> Archaon level.

Vorian wrote:
Would an Imperator really be bigger than a Wraithknight? It would potentially be more bulky, surely we'd be talking Wraithknight -> Archaon level.

Seems so. Googling Wraithknight it seems to be about 20cm long(8" was number one post in dakkadakka said). Imperator is 55m in fluff. Scaled that to 32m of warlord we get 78% more than warlord. Warlord I have in table was 14cm. Up that by 78% and you get to 24cm. 40k scaled Warhound titan is 25cm according to FW page so almost as tall as warhound. And Imperator is also quite bulky.

For further comparison old warlord is about waist of new warlord. Old Imperator is about size of new warlord(some use the old imperators to convert new warlords and doesn't look oddly small)

Imperator is BIG. Though not that big that the Andy's claim about 40k reaver would make sense. That would make imperator over 90 meters tall in real life...Which is just silly. And never seen anywhere claim imperator to be triple the size of warlord...

If they make one and its not massively expensive I'll probably get it just to have one again. But as things stand I'm fine with the Warlord being the biggest unit on the AT table. And now that the "classic" Titans are done I'm itching to see what they can do with a blank canvass instead of updating old designs. So bring on the Rapier, Nightgaunt, Warrior and whatever else they can dream up.

Haha yeah I'm in same boat. If they bring one I'm sure I get one for my Mortis(hey they are known for their big engines) but probably not for my loyalist legion. However more practical titans in game terms would be nice to have first. No need to bring Imperator any time soon!

Don't forget the Warmonger, the other Emperor class Titan. That badly needs to be brought up to date

 Overread wrote:
People seem to forget that Titan Legions ran with Imperators and Mega Gartants without issue and that GW does make several plastic kits much bigger than the current Warlord. There's ample chance of them releasing and doing a faithful towering Imperator.

The only barrier would likely be that it would breach the £100 price barrier; though I think AT might get away with that.

People aren't forgetting anything, they're looking at the practicalities of the actual, modern game rather than those of a system from thirty years ago that was in a much smaller scale. I've seen the size & bulk of an AT-scale Imperator compared to the Acastus Porphyrion knight from FW and that seems pretty close, though a bit large, and I don't think people are really grasping how big that is. As far as I know the biggest bases GW presently produce are the 170mm oval and the 160mm round, and for reference the Cerastus in the image is using the 170mm Oval:



You can't just plonk something like that down for regular games even based on nothing but the sheer mass of the model and the required size of base for it to function with the AT rules system. Any table where it was actually capable of moving around would make fielding lesser engines a nightmare since there'd be sod-all cover. Then there's the actual power level of the thing - it's consistently described in modern works as having weaponry that can cut Warlords in half in one shot. Even if we're charitable and say that's without Voids you're still talking about something with enough firepower to just delete a battle titan every turn.

GW could absolutely make the model in plastic, and FW could definitely make it in resin, but it'd be a huge pain in the arse to actually use one in a game.

Could be made, would though? First plastic model for that size would likely be more likely to 40k proper.

But yeah gaming wise not that easily fit to regular game especially if you want it to be anywhere near powerful enough to make sense for size and fluff. And actually there can be issue that it's _too powerfull to actually be able to win games_. IF that sounds weird consider the titans in 40k. They are powerful yes able to delete units and are tough to remove. HOWEVER here in lies their weakness. If you price them appropriately they are so few in numbers you can't really win by objectives. They can't delete fast enough units to wipe out. AT they could at least hope for engage&destroy and hope they kill enough but they would be hopeless preventing enemy from doing vital cargo's, would be useless for retrieval, stopping enemy when you have hold the line...

Basically they approach the level you need to have another of equal caliber on the opposite side to be able to be worth it.

Tricky one to put to game.

However I still want one for special scenarios ;-) Even if it's resin and costs like 300£(about size of warhound so around that price mark sounds logical). Just not right away. 2020 or 2021 is just fine for me after more practical models are out by a plenty!

And imagine practical issues if the FW HAD decided to up the size of imperator enough that it actually would be size of 40k reaver...To imagine THAT add regular knight top of that acat...whatever and add appropriate bulk...

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:
Those buildings are growing on me actually the more I look at them, I just wish they were a little taller. I hate to think how much a full board of those tiles would set me back if I lived down under.

I bought one of the big boxes, then instead of buying the other five I'd need to make a full table with decent terrain density I spent a third that much on a vacuum chamber. Will be a lot easier to make large structures once I combine multiple plastic components into large "tiles" and cast them. If it's good enough for GW...

Good idea that, I have not done any casting since I was younger and they would look a bit rough but they are only ruined buildings after all. It sure beats buying at least four more boxes of the first lot just to get a decent city started.

I have been using DZ ruined cityscape so far and it works well, if only GW could make something like a more gothic version of that.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I’d like to see a ‘rationalised’ version, much like how the modern Warlord is much more like the old Beetlebacks than some people would care to admit. At the very least add some thigh armour…

I don't know if they would do it, last, most modern representation set in actual AT battle still pretty much has the same design:



Although it puzzles me, why a cathedral if they are still following Imperial Truth? In 40K, sure, but in 30K...?

I’m sure there’s a lot of Omnissiah praise going on in there.

Based on the Titandeath novel, the whole "cathedrals to ol' Empy" thing is a goner. They're called "acropoliz" now IIRC and it's basically a big-ass fortress.

Thanks to all who took the time and effort to take notes and pictures from the Weekender.

I must admit it's far more news than I was expecting, so color me pleasantly surprised.

The building toppers are inspired and the future book sounds fun as well.

The Imperator in novel covers looks like the old miniature because that's the closest thing to an official depiction that the cover artist(s) had to work from. I don't think Specialist Games will make themselves beholden to that art any more than they have up till now (or we'd have got the Lucius-pattern Warlord in 40k and Adeptus Titanicus scales, not the redesigned Mars that we have). There'll be some cues from the original, but it'll be a new thing if they do one. And it'll be as big as they want it to be, so assuming it'll be the size of this that or the other 40k Knight miniature is quite possibly a red herring.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Based on the Titandeath novel, the whole "cathedrals to ol' Empy" thing is a goner. They're called "acropoliz" now IIRC and it's basically a big-ass fortress.

It always was, wasn't it? I don't remember there being much if any description of the superstructure as a "temple" - more that the entire titan was a mobile fortress-temple. The Imperial titans and Ork Gargants share that design element; they're both ambulatory depictions of gods as much as they're war machines. If it was simply about firepower, the Mechanicum and Imperium would simply field Ordinati or Praetorian-class machines like the Capitol Imperialis, Colossus, etc. Titans bring the firepower and the glory of the Omnissiah.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rules-wise, the Imperator used a datacard just like other Imperial titans did in 2nd edition Epic. Except where the cards for the smaller titans were A4-sized, the Imperator was A3 (twice as big), had dozens of footery counters and took up an annoying amount of table space. While I'd expect a Command Console for an Imperator to be more like the existing ones for smaller titans, it will almost certainly be larger, if only to fit in the additional weapons cards (and possibly additional system damage tracks).