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Prices for the FW stuff have increased: the macro-gatling and quake cannon are now £15 (vs £14) and the civitas sector tiles are £84 (vs £80).
The GME is going to £180.

 Krinsath wrote:
Hewitt has mentioned in interviews how GW intended for AT to be marketed to more "veteran" gamers. I'm fairly sure that's corporatespeak for "people who are used to paying a lot". The relative cost of the starter sets certainly alludes to this idea. They aren't really trying to draw in the random observer directly, and so they're pricing at what they think they can get and not what would draw people in.

Regarding 'Veteran gamers' I'd say it's moreso people with very specific tastes who are willing to pay a lot to satisfy them. People who, for example, would probably be unwilling to buy a re-print of 1989's Adeptus Titanicus because the Titans wouldn't be up to the quality of 2018's production quality.

I think people are overestimating the cost of AT.

Yes, I have spent quite a bit of dough on it. Got the basic rules box, 3 Warlords, 2 Reavers, 4 Warhounds, 12 Questoris and 4 Lancers. But that's considerably more than I needed to spend.

Heck, one can get a solid starting force for....

Rules - £35
Titan Battle Group - £100
Another Titan of your choice (£35/£40/£65).

That gives you a decent array of Titans, and access to more than one Maniple type.

Me? I'd probably plump for a second Reaver, choosing the one with the Melta sprue. Sure it's the cheapest option to expand, but it's also the most flexible Titan Class, and that extra sprue gives me the most options.

If I went for a second Warlord (the most expensive option, taking the opening cost to £200) I'd again go for the other box, bagging Sunfuries, and Powerfist and some Laser blasters.

And.....that's it. You've got a decent selection of weapons to try out, and a force that can do most things.

Sure, it's not cheap. But it's not a massive price tag for such an enjoyable game.

And from there? The most cash efficient way you can vary your force is weapon expansions. For the price of adding a second/third Warlord, one can buy the Mori Quake Cannon, Macro Gatling Blaster, and one each of the Reaver Weapon sprues. That gives a Princeps a significant choice of dakka, including doubling up all the Reaver weapons on a single chassis.

It's one of the reasons I'm hooked. No need to buy a whole new Titan. Just slap different dakka on it, and enjoy a new experience

Though yes. As new Titans come out I will be buying them. Because of course I will.

Unfortunately, the GME box created some first impressions, and those can be hard to shake. I absolutely recommend the battlegroup box (plus the rules box) to new players. It's a *great* starting point, where the mix of stuff in the GME box really isn't.

Now the upgrade sprues and resin weapons can impact the wallet more than you'd think. And the lack of availability of the resin weapons is more than a little annoying. It's fairly ridiculous. And building out an AT table can be expensive, depending on how you want to do it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably avoid doing a cityscape and build a canyon table out of cheap foam.

But yeah, getting the rules and basic Titans you need for a solid maniple really isn't as bad as people think.

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do we have a sauce on those prices?

Sweet Chilli. Or I can do BBQ!

It's from a trader email.

Thats brilliant news! Thanks for making our day!

You'll never sell people on a leisure activity by focusing on cost. You will sell it to people on the basis of value, because if it's valuable enough the cost won't be a barrier.

Mendi Warrior wrote:
Prices for the FW stuff have increased: the macro-gatling and quake cannon are now £15 (vs £14) and the civitas sector tiles are £84 (vs £80).
The GME is going to £180.

Still no weapon stock for the US that I can tell.

I am considering buying into this game but am confused by the options, specifically the dashboards and weapon cards and where they are or aren't already included and if any of the packs have cards that aren't in the rules box.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I am considering buying into this game but am confused by the options, specifically the dashboards and weapon cards and where they are or aren't already included and if any of the packs have cards that aren't in the rules box.

Essentially, the AT Ruleset has two "command terminals" each for the following types; Warlord, Reaver, Warhound and Questoris Knight banner. After that, you either need to buy additional terminals or just make cheap substitutes.

For the weapon cards, the Knights don't need them and their weapons are covered on the terminals. The Titans are a different matter - each titan will need its own weapon cards. The Ruleset has one card for each type of weapon for the Warlord, Reaver and Warhound. The complication here is that if you have two warhounds, and each is armed with a mega-bolter each - the ruleset only provides one mega-bolter card; you will need to purchase an additional warhound weapon card pack. This goes for the Reaver's weapons too. The only exception is the Warlord, which contains enough cards to cover two "Volcano cannon" Warlord miniatures - the same ones provided in the Grand Master Edition.

The terminals are not as much a problem as you can download more, print and then glue them to card( checkout the WH community site for this ). The weapon cards however are not - you'll have to scan them, do a little work in an image-editor and then print more, or alternatively create your own from scratch if you don't have a scanner. There are a lot of creative money-saving tricks here so long as you put a little effort in, and there could be an app to replace all this lunacy in the future...

I wouldn’t wait up on any apps. GW, after all, did promise a 40K app similar to the AoS one when the 8th edition launched, and here we are two years later without anything in sight.

 totalfailure wrote:
I wouldn’t wait up on any apps. GW, after all, did promise a 40K app similar to the AoS one when the 8th edition launched, and here we are two years later without anything in sight.

Well they did launch that low effort web based "combat roster" after all.

SamusDrake wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I am considering buying into this game but am confused by the options, specifically the dashboards and weapon cards and where they are or aren't already included and if any of the packs have cards that aren't in the rules box.

Essentially, the AT Ruleset has two "command terminals" each for the following types; Warlord, Reaver, Warhound and Questoris Knight banner. After that, you either need to buy additional terminals or just make cheap substitutes.

For the weapon cards, the Knights don't need them and their weapons are covered on the terminals. The Titans are a different matter - each titan will need its own weapon cards. The Ruleset has one card for each type of weapon for the Warlord, Reaver and Warhound. The complication here is that if you have two warhounds, and each is armed with a mega-bolter each - the ruleset only provides one mega-bolter card; you will need to purchase an additional warhound weapon card pack. This goes for the Reaver's weapons too. The only exception is the Warlord, which contains enough cards to cover two "Volcano cannon" Warlord miniatures - the same ones provided in the Grand Master Edition.

The terminals are not as much a problem as you can download more, print and then glue them to card( checkout the WH community site for this ). The weapon cards however are not - you'll have to scan them, do a little work in an image-editor and then print more, or alternatively create your own from scratch if you don't have a scanner. There are a lot of creative money-saving tricks here so long as you put a little effort in, and there could be an app to replace all this lunacy in the future...

I’m not sure one need even go that far.

If you’ve got the rulebook, you’ve got the cards. So we need one on each terminal, or just a clear note of who is packing what, and the right card to hand somewhere?

Sure, it looks nice when everything is in its proper place, but I can’t see many opponents objecting, provided there’s at least a post-it note on the relevant slot, saying what the weapon is. And if they do object? Grubbing up extra cards is probably the least of your problems with they’re your opponent

In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.

If you need more terminals and stuff the best option for me is to buy a second rule set. You get another couple of terminals for each titan and now you've got two of each weapon card.

The battleforce is by far the most efficient way to buy actual titans. If you can get it from a FLGS with 20-25% off then that and the rule set will cost not much over £100. That's enough stuff to play the game. You'll probably want some alternate weapons before long so it might make sense to get the alternate reaver and/or warlord - or to order the sprues from GW.

I did buy a pack of warhound and reaver weapon cards. Not sure I really needed the reaver ones. The packs aren't all that expensive though.

The game is awesome and so are the models. I think GW messed up the launch with the GME, which has the wrong stuff in it and costs too much. That put people off and meant that starter games with just two warlords blasting each other weren't much good. But this is now a really good time to get into the game.

Is this still coming?

Thanks SamusDrake and Mandragola!

I think I'll go with the rules pack, titan battleforce and alternate Reaver for now, which is an Axiom exactly.

Oh yeah... how do army compositions look in practice? Since points are only on cards, I don't even know how much stuff you can field in a standard point game. And is it common to max out one Maniple or do people commonly field several different, under-strength Maniples?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Thanks SamusDrake and Mandragola!

I think I'll go with the rules pack, titan battleforce and alternate Reaver for now, which is an Axiom exactly.

Oh yeah... how do army compositions look in practice? Since points are only on cards, I don't even know how much stuff you can field in a standard point game. And is it common to max out one Maniple or do people commonly field several different, under-strength Maniples?

Spare points go to Support knights for me. Usually I just want 1 maniple because the rule for that maniple is what I want.

Knight is an important part to any army, they move fast, they ignore like half the rule of this game, and they are generally very annoying (or even deadly), also they can guard your titan against on coming Knights/ Titan.

As a reference, here's the Acastus sprue:

Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.

The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.

Chopstick wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Thanks SamusDrake and Mandragola!

I think I'll go with the rules pack, titan battleforce and alternate Reaver for now, which is an Axiom exactly.

Oh yeah... how do army compositions look in practice? Since points are only on cards, I don't even know how much stuff you can field in a standard point game. And is it common to max out one Maniple or do people commonly field several different, under-strength Maniples?

Spare points go to Support knights for me. Usually I just want 1 maniple because the rule for that maniple is what I want.

Knight is an important part to any army, they move fast, they ignore like half the rule of this game, and they are generally very annoying (or even deadly), also they can guard your titan against on coming Knights/ Titan.

Those initial purchases seem sensible. Get yourself some 5x1mm round rare earth magnets too. The warlord is designed to be magnetised with them. It's really easy to do and you'll be very happy you did it. The reaver and warhound aren't designed to be magnetised (no holes like the warlord has) but there are loads of tutorials on how to do it online. You could order yourself a quake cannon or macro gatling from FW if you wanted, as the double-bellicosa load out isn't much good in my opinion.

GW have released downloadable terminals if you'd like to see some points values that are legally in the public domain: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AT-Command-Terminals.pdf

No weapon cards there I'm afraid. Once you've added those on a warlord will cost somewhere around 500 points, a reaver 300 or a bit over and a warhound about 220.

In terms of army composition you tend to see just one maniple per list. There are pretty significant advantages if you're able to fit in a second one though, as each maniple is led by a Princeps Seniores who gets +2 to his command value and a random warlord-trait-type-thing. There's no real advantage of adding the other two titans, though they do get the maniple's rules.

There's no standard size to a game. They suggest up to 1750 as a medium-sized game you can play in 2-3 hours, though at first it'll take longer because the rules are pretty dense. Most people seem to play either 1750 or 2000.

It's just about possible to get two maniples into 1750. There are a few maniples based on a reaver and two warhounds, which come to about 750 points. It's just about possible to get a bare bones Axiom maniple for 1000. Or you can go a bit nuts and bring a Myrmidon maniple with three warlords and a reaver, which is my preferred approach!

Chopstick wrote:
Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.

The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.

He meant they're similar to Warhounds in that they're about the same size and you get two in a box.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.

The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.

He meant they're similar to Warhounds in that they're about the same size and you get two in a box.

It's a nonsensical comparison regardless, now that there are people out there actually beleive those same should have similar/slightly lower price point because they're 2 and at the same size, Warhound and Reaver both took 3 times the resource to make. This knight aint.

Acastus are 2 for £30 on the price lists that have gone to retailers so less than the £40 for 2 Warhounds.

Edit I see it was posted earlier.

Mandragola wrote:
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.

Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?

It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.

Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?

It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey

You also pay more to get that free warlord.

In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff.

Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.

Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?

It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey

Another consideration is that probably no online discounter will free ship you the GME. I can get it locally for 15% off the Euro zone price and it basically translates to just the terrain being free, compared to Wayland prices. So FOR ME it's down to free terrain (and being locked into two identical Warlord builds) vs free Warhounds.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.

Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?

It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey

Another consideration is that probably no online discounter will free ship you the GME. I can get it locally for 15% off the Euro zone price and it basically translates to just the terrain being free, compared to Wayland prices. So now it's down to free terrain (and being locked into two identical Warlord builds) vs free Warhounds.

OTOH, I did manage to buy two Titan Battlegroup boxes off Wayland with Free Shipping, 20% off and price in pounds instead of euros, so... I ended up getting quite a discount compared with buying them locally (about 180 euros in total for both boxes).

Chopstick wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.

Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?

It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey

You also pay more to get that free warlord.

In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff.

Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?

Well it's not even a legal list. Where the battleforce can be fielded as an Axiom maniple (or several others) there's nothing you can do with just two warlords.

In terms of value, sure the GME gives you a free warlord. Actually the two sets give you roughly similar discounts in terms of percentage. The £40 discount off the battleforce's contents that sells for £100 is about equivalent to the £65 discount on the contents of the £175 GME. The difference is that you actually want all of the titans in the battleforce. You're likely to use most or all of those titans in pretty much every game you play. Two warlords and two knight banners, not so much.

A GME does make more sense if two people are splitting it. If each person got the GME and a battleforce, and you also got a rules set, then you'd each have two warlords, a reaver and two warhounds. You're still ending up with probably more warlords than you want, and not enough reavers. Reavers are relatively cheap though.

The other issue is that these warlords come with a bad selection of weapons. I think it was a real error to give you two of the same arm weapon on tha original sprue. They easily might have given you a plasma gun and a volcano cannon, essentially like they did for the reaver. Now, whatever version you buy, you'll have to buy the other sprue and probably some resin weapons. It's weird that they didn't use the same principles for all the versions. Warhounds get two of each gun, which is great. Reavers give you most things between the two versions. But it means that getting lots of warlords means lots of likely future expenditure, to give them a decent load-out. That isn't the case for warhounds or reavers.

Forgeworld currently only sells two Warlord guns. I wasn't paying much attention but did they use to have more? I've seen some weapons in battle reports that I can't find anywhere, like Reaver carapace vortex missiles here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjhOwwHGno . Or are these conversions?

So which weapons are good/bad and why?

Those are conversions - missiles are pretty easy to throw together from other model kits.

Of the weapon cards originally released with AT, we still don't have:
Reaver carapace warp missile
Reaver carapace vulcan mega-bolter
Warlord carapace vulcan mega-bolter
Warlord carapace gatling blasters

The two Reaver weapons were previewed along with the Acastus knight and *might* make an appearance this Friday with FW pre-orders. We also saw a CAD render of the Warlord carapace gatlings at the same time, so that's in progress.

Mandragola wrote:

Chopstick wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.

Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?

It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey

You also pay more to get that free warlord.

In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff.

Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?

Well it's not even a legal list. Where the battleforce can be fielded as an Axiom maniple (or several others) there's nothing you can do with just two warlords.

In terms of value, sure the GME gives you a free warlord. Actually the two sets give you roughly similar discounts in terms of percentage. The £40 discount off the battleforce's contents that sells for £100 is about equivalent to the £65 discount on the contents of the £175 GME. The difference is that you actually want all of the titans in the battleforce. You're likely to use most or all of those titans in pretty much every game you play. Two warlords and two knight banners, not so much.

A GME does make more sense if two people are splitting it. If each person got the GME and a battleforce, and you also got a rules set, then you'd each have two warlords, a reaver and two warhounds. You're still ending up with probably more warlords than you want, and not enough reavers. Reavers are relatively cheap though.

The other issue is that these warlords come with a bad selection of weapons. I think it was a real error to give you two of the same arm weapon on tha original sprue. They easily might have given you a plasma gun and a volcano cannon, essentially like they did for the reaver. Now, whatever version you buy, you'll have to buy the other sprue and probably some resin weapons. It's weird that they didn't use the same principles for all the versions. Warhounds get two of each gun, which is great. Reavers give you most things between the two versions. But it means that getting lots of warlords means lots of likely future expenditure, to give them a decent load-out. That isn't the case for warhounds or reavers.

I also feel like the terrain in the GME set is a money pit. It's not nearly enough to fill a table, so you end up needing a LOT more of the surprisingly expensive Civitas sets to do it in a uniform way. (This is where I'm at right now.) I'm not a big fan of the DZC cardboard terrain, so if I had to do it over I'd probably build canyon terrain out of foam.