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Intresting to compare the Reaver and the Warlord control sheets there. Do we have any idea what a knight profile looks like in this game. I wonder if lesser models get a one line profile or a unit gets a control sheet....

Cheers
Mark

Das_Ubermike wrote:

I'm pretty sure they were designed by Dave Andrews, who was on the B-team of Citadel sculptors along with Aly/Trish Morrison and Gary Morley. Not exactly prestigious company to keep.

I don't think you know Dave Andrews' work for GW very well.

Amybody play this in 32mm, yet with the large scale knights and titans?

I haven't played the previous editions so I really have no idea how this game works.

People talk about the price, but one important question relating to that is how many models you actually need to play. Is the game fun with just, say six knight titans and three bigger titans per side? Do knights form squads or do all models operate on their own?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and is there any word whether there will be eldar titans at some point?

 Crimson wrote:
I haven't played the previous editions so I really have no idea how this game works.

People talk about the price, but one important question relating to that is how many models you actually need to play. Is the game fun with just, say six knight titans and three bigger titans per side? Do knights form squads or do all models operate on their own?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and is there any word whether there will be eldar titans at some point?

I think that is a point is moot, because, X-wing takes only a few models to play, Warmahordes only takes a few models to play, and still people seem to amass huge collections of armies.
Entry level price needs to be reasonable, the original Adeptus mechanicus came with 6 warlord titans and buildings and lots of weapon choices.

Whereas a resin Warlord from FW is likely to cost an arm and a leg, and certainly not something people can buy into as an 'entry cost'.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

I think that is a point is moot, because, X-wing takes only a few models to play, Warmahordes only takes a few models to play, and still people seem to amass huge collections of armies.
Entry level price needs to be reasonable, the original Adeptus mechanicus came with 6 warlord titans and buildings and lots of weapon choices.

Sure, many people will collect massive armies whether it is needed or not, but when we're talking about entry cost, then it means the cost of the smallest reasonable army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Whereas a resin Warlord from FW is likely to cost an arm and a leg, and certainly not something people can buy into as an 'entry cost'.

Right. But if the Warlord is your big centrepiece model of which you reasonably need only one, the price is much less of problem than in a situation where a reasonable army needs to have five of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In any case, I hope most of these models will be available in plastic. Not only because of the price, but because plastic is nicer to work with.

If the warlord is approximately the size of a dreadnaught, then based on Forgeworld pricing, I expect ~80 GBP per Warlord. At that price point and with a Titan force requiring ~6 titans, I suspect around 300 - 400 GBP per army. That is a steep requirement for a specialist game with uncertain local following.

It won't be that price in plastic, though...

You used to be able to field quite a few titans and a ton of knights back in the day...so if the scale of the engagement is similar, yeah you're looking at something super pricey.

I thought that the plastic rumors were all but shut down from last weekend?

Plastic Warhounds and Reavers would go a far way in making the game affordable, but no information points to that now.

I thought there were plenty of plastic rumours swirling - I guess we'll have to wait and see a bit...

DrRansom wrote:
If the warlord is approximately the size of a dreadnaught, then based on Forgeworld pricing, I expect ~80 GBP per Warlord. At that price point and with a Titan force requiring ~6 titans, I suspect around 300 - 400 GBP per army. That is a steep requirement for a specialist game with uncertain local following.

I wouldn't expect the price to be that high. A resin Warlord will probably be around the £50-60 mark but I would be very surprised if there weren't plastic Warlord and Reaver.

 Crimson wrote:
Right. But if the Warlord is your big centrepiece model of which you reasonably need only one, the price is much less of problem than in a situation where a reasonable army needs to have five of them.

Two things with that:

1. Not much of a titan brawl if the idea is you bring one Warlord. Remember the original AT had 3 per side as a starter.
2. I don't trust FW to not make their tiny Reavers cost almost as much, and the Warhounds to be nearly worth their weight in at least silver.

Epic and GW have never been good bedfellows when it comes to price. When they were still selling Epic 40K/Epic Armageddon stuff the prices were out of this world for stuff so tiny. What faith should we have that Forge World, which is still GW, won't do any different?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I think that is a point is moot, because, X-wing takes only a few models to play, Warmahordes only takes a few models to play, and still people seem to amass huge collections of armies.
Entry level price needs to be reasonable, the original Adeptus mechanicus came with 6 warlord titans and buildings and lots of weapon choices.

Warmahordes might require as bare minimum small amount of models but then again you can technically start 40k army with ~11 models...In practice Warmahorde requires lots of infantry and if you want to go to tournaments you basically need 2+ casters which in practice means different units.

I once made calculation of real world tournament armies for FB/40k/Warmahordes and found out to my surprise they were more or less identical in euros. Model wise FB had most, 40k 2nd and WM had least models. Albeit WM had more variety though as it was multiple army lists to choose from.

DrRansom wrote:
If the warlord is approximately the size of a dreadnaught, then based on Forgeworld pricing, I expect ~80 GBP per Warlord. At that price point and with a Titan force requiring ~6 titans, I suspect around 300 - 400 GBP per army. That is a steep requirement for a specialist game with uncertain local following.

From what I've read an 8mm Warlord should be about Knight size, which would make it closer to £200 for that one model. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Warhams-77 wrote:
While this is not the actual model for sale it gives a good impression



At the last event it was said the size would be similiar to this fella (center)

The middle guy comes in at £72. If they go plastic then obviously you can revise downwards a little

Vorian wrote:
The middle guy comes in at £72. If they go plastic then obviously you can revise downwards a little

Don't forget that the £72 includes both the Chassis and Weapons. I expect that, if it is full resin, expect and weapons to be separate and priced similarly.

If plastic, I expect that you'll get a combined set of weapons and Chassis. Extra weapons (Fire Control Tower, Deathstrike Cannon, Plasma Destructor, Power Ram, Carapace Landing Pads and all the rest) to be resin upgrades.

Pretty sure the whole plastic thing is wishlisting combined with the echo-chamber of the internet.

The only thing FW said was they would like to have some plastic.

The fact that the starter contains no models is a red flag for me as that implies they could not get any models into it at less than £100.

The chassis are going to be seperate from weapons so expect to pay through the nose for a single titan.

We haven't heard what the starter will contain after the delay because some Titans will now be in plastic.

The only buildings stuff came when everything was going to be Resin, so it was nothing to do with not being able to fit stuff into a starter box.

Accept I have yet to see or hear confirmation that there will be plastic titans.

The delay is unrelated to the material the titans will be made of and more related to gw having a packed release schedule. Also some slight reading between the lines but gw seem to be prefering to release small box games using existing models with only 1 or 2 big boxs with new minis being released.

Well we had only plastic buildings at the Forgeworld open day

Then the open day at new years it was there is a delay, bloodbowl has been a big success so there's the possibility for more plastic

Then the weekender had more plastic talk.

There's no way they'd discuss the possibility if it wasn't pretty much going to happen to some extent. What that extent will be is certainly unsure.

I'm not pretending it's going to be cheap by any stretch of the imagination though. It's pretty much going to compare to a 40k army to have an AT force

Exactly, they're dropping hints about plastic all over the place... I think people really need to take a step back before declaring the game too expensive, there is literally no way to know that yet!

If there's some core models in plastic, I'm totally okay with having the option to buy others in resin - best of both worlds, imo

Bit of perspective here I think.

I was at Warhammerfest 2016, reporting for BoLS. I was the first to share the big poster of Adeptus Titanicus.

I then probed a bit, asking one of the FW chaps what it was all about. Sadly, can't remember the name, but he was working on it. At that point, he said they were working on the buildings, and hadn't quite settled on a scale.

Someone else the same day (possibly the next) did much the same, and we found out 8mm.

Bloodbowl was also nearing production at that point - they had the boxed set contents on show.

Seemed the core game teams would be plastic, others resin. We now know that changed.

Please don't cross reference older and newer rumours. It seems the Specialist Games wing is open to rapid and frequent change in production decisions - and that BB took off better than GW expected*, who knows what extra resources might be assigned to SG, and AT in particular?


*This is not to say they had no faith in the game. But after they withdrew, imitation games sprung up - that's a chunk of your former market already catered to. That it would appear people have gone mental for BB is very interesting!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Bit of perspective here I think.

Indeed!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I was at Warhammerfest 2016, reporting for BoLS.

Is this an ongoing relationship?

Anyway, I still hold out hope for plastic Warlords - but then, I wish the title of this thread was in fact 100% accurate too - but EPIC isn't returning.

...yet!

 RiTides wrote:
I thought there were plenty of plastic rumours swirling - I guess we'll have to wait and see a bit...

There were, and they were all extremely equivocal. Maybe this, could do that, might if they get permission, perhaps not right away but in the future, if we're lucky, possibly they'll do small stuff but the battle titans will still be resin and so forth. Nothing that justifies getting excited IMO, the great likelihood is still all-resin models with plastic terrain sprues and thus an investment of at least a couple of hundred quid(and that's a lowball assuming 40 for the core box and only one battle titan - if you go with a proper maniple with multiple battle titans and scouts instead of knights, you'll be getting on for £400).

However, in my quest to find more positive things in stuff I dislike - GW have now killed my interest in both their main fantasy AND their main sci-fi product, and since I do my own artscale Marine sculpts for Heresy I don't need to spend money on FW Marines either, so now I can just about afford to play the new AT even if they do go all resin. Hurrah, I think?

They wouldn't have mentioned it at all if the great likelihood was ALL resin Titans (and knights).

£200 - £400 seems realistic though, you'd expect a 40k army to come in somewhere in that region wouldn't you?

Vorian wrote:
They wouldn't have mentioned it at all if the great likelihood was ALL resin Titans (and knights).

£200 - £400 seems realistic though, you'd expect a 40k army to come in somewhere in that region wouldn't you?

A game with five models a side is not 40K. Even if you're charitable in assuming a 1:1 comparison and say a 40K army comprised of 5 Dreadnoughts and nothing else, that's £100 from a discounter, then £30-40 from a discounter for the no-miniatures starter box means plastic AT at anything more than £150 would be extortionate, and that would be for an all-Battle Titan army, not one BT and a few piddly Knights which is what you could realistically expect the AT "entry level" army to be.

Even then, the only wargame more expensive than 40K is 30K, so using that as a benchmark for what we should consider a reasonable price for a specialist game is a bit daft IMO.

A £75 core boxed set with four Reavers and two Warlords, plus a couple of sprues of plastic scenery? That I would call reasonable. Plastic Warhounds in a box of two for £20, single plastic Reavers for £20, single plastic Warlords for £30 seems fair, but of course it's GW so I expect more like £120, £25, £35, and £50 respectively(and £30 for a box of three Knights), but even that would be tolerable.

Blood Bowl has blown up in part because of how reasonably priced it is for a GW game, if AT even approaches £200 per-player for a starter army it'll struggle, and if the total investment is more like a large 40K army it'll be DoA except among the hardest of hardcore titanheads.

To FW, Adeptus Titanicus game is an extension of the Horus Heresy series. I think we should expect something more like that approach than the approach that's been taken with Blood Bowl. It's apparent in the fact they've said it'll be printed to match the Horus Heresy campaign books.

The GW's goal in creating the larger umbrella of Specialist Games the capability to support games with plastic. Certain games like Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda, and Mordheim, if these games get plastic support at all, I think the focus of that support will be the terrain. Terrain, where they can more easily reach the necessary economy of scale; where kits can benefit from having multiple identical sprues for example.

'Plastic Warlords' can easily reach the necessary economies of scale too, in a boxed set for...Adeptus Titanicus!

That way, GW/FW can see a LOT more, and then FW can sell a LOT of resin upgrades and variants.

It makes a lot of sense to at least get the Warlords into plastic.

Leaving the smaller ones - and the largest one? - to resin?