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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno.

Warlord ought to be a doddle. Good definition between the panels, largely standard gun metal below.

And I’m not sure anyone else has shared, but here’s an ‘old and new’ comparison.

Brilliant - thanks for that!

Really, really intrigued about the rules, they sound really characterful and hopefully have enough depth for a cool skirmish game. (Although it seems wrong to be using the word 'skirmish' considering the concept of the game!)

I'm quite looking forward to whether it will be possible to adapt some of the more in-depth rules for Epic Armageddon. As much as I like that game, and understand the need for streamlining, I always thought it missed something compared to the original AT game and Space Marine (now NetEpic Gold) in terms of how damage to the vehicles and things like that were handled.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno.

Warlord ought to be a doddle. Good definition between the panels, largely standard gun metal below.

And I’m not sure anyone else has shared, but here’s an ‘old and new’ comparison.

I could be mistaken but I think I detect a slight upsizing from the previous edition to the new one. I'll have to have the model in my hand to really tell.

Also appears to be an arc template of some kind in front of King Stompy there?

Still kinda freak that a Warhound is likely to be the size of the old Warlord

 insaniak wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:

One thing that my group discussed - given they now have a plastic sprue for a warlord..... scale it up. .

It doesn't work like that. Scaling an 8mm sprue up to 28mm gets you a 28mm model that is really lacking in detail. Armorcast got away with it back in the '90s, because the original Epic titans didn't have that much detail to begin with... but reproducing these sculpts in 28mm would require completely resculpting them.

Which would be a backwards way of going about it anyway, since these were most likely made from scaled down versions of the Forgeworld sculpts. Resculpting those to be compatible with plastic tooling would be more sensible than trying to do it from 8mm models.

Plus even then it wouldn't really mean plastic 28mm warlord release even if magically scale up would result in more details. Sprue costs would be horrendous for model of that size. Would it really sell that much? Who plays regularly 10k+ games to field one? (especially as they suck so are basically "I give up"). Would sales from pure collectors really compensate...

(especially as not every collector can fit model into home! As much as I would love to own I think practical issue of storing it prevents it)

Size, cost, transporting and playing games big enough - those are all things that would make a plastic titan almost an impossibility for a Warlord.

At a practical level I think that Knights are as big as GW can really push things model wise for massmarket sales. Even they are very bulky to transport, but they can at least make it onto standard tables more or less.

New technology and such has made models much bigger; early carnifx and tyranids are tiny compared to their modern counterparts (heck the old hive-tyrant isn't much bigger than a modern day warrior). But the actual mechanics of transporting models from home to club/shop to play is always going to be a hard upper barrier.
I suspect that is why the plastic Thunderhawk is still a pipe-dream of many - its getting into the realms where size become a practical issue.

The more barriers there are the less buyers there are which makes plastic less and less attractive as a material to work with from a cost of producing the moulds. Of course a Thunderhawk has more potential to sell at least in a decent volume and owuld probably be the biggest plastic we'd ever see if it were made.

But a Warlord I just don't see happening unless the cost for plastic mould production takes a nosedive. The only other option would be 3D printing, but high definition 3D printing currently seems impractical for miniature production (it seems to work for masters, but at the same time I'm aware those masters take considerable time to clean up the layer lines on them even now; which makes them ideal for masters to then make mould casts from, but not for actual production and sale)

 xttz wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno.

Warlord ought to be a doddle. Good definition between the panels, largely standard gun metal below.

And I’m not sure anyone else has shared, but here’s an ‘old and new’ comparison.

So am I right in thinking that the Reaver is on the small oval base used by Skitarii Ironstriders, while the Warlord is on the large oval used by most Tyranid monsters? That would put the Warhound on a 50/60mm round base.

One post I saw of FB said that the Reaver is on the 90 x 52 mm oval base, while the Warlord is on the 120 x 92 mm oval (which is the same one that the Valkyrie and most other flyers are on). Saving the big 170 x 105 mm base the 40k-scale Imperial Knight uses for the Imperator? (or other yet-to-be revealed larger battle or emperor titans).

Battlebunnies have posted a summary of the gameplay here:

http://battlebunnies.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/adeptus-titanicus-demo-pod-tacticae.html

Few highlights:

the new AT boards that are being released by Forge World are deliberately designed so that they can be set up with roads that can not be traversed by larger engines to give some tactical advantages to smaller engines.

Here we got an overview of army composition, the roles of the different titans that will be available soon after launch and how they can be armed.

In terms of maniple composition (which is the key thing here), this is what the command terminal packs provide. The command terminal packs provide you with a maniple composition amongst other things - for example, the Axiom Command Terminal pack provides you with everything (apart from models and weapons cards) to field a pre-selected maniple consisting of 1 warlord, 1-2 reavers and 1-2 warhounds. If you build a maniple that is compatible with the terminal pack you can get extra rules such as improved command rolls - so think of them like formations but not as game breaking as some of the ones in 7th.

The titan roles should be pretty self explanatory really - Warlord is a slow but resilient heavy hitter, Reaver is a middle of the road kind of titan, Warhound is a fast glass cannon, Knights are flank protectors and irritants - don't ignore them though as they can take down an injured titan caught off guard!

Weapons are important here as you need to have a balance between shield breakers and engine killers, too much of a focus either way may result in you not being able to quickly take down enemy titans.

Did anyone in attendance ask if they were looking beyond the “classic three” plus knights for the game?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Did anyone in attendance ask if they were looking beyond the “classic three” plus knights for the game?

I don't think we've heard anything beyond the knights, warhounds, reavers and warlords. In fact I'd expect an upgrade/weapon pack to come after/during those releases to give more variety to those mechs.

However beyond that I don't think we know anything for certain and it might even hinge on how well this kit is received. My guess would be that they will follow the other mechs that FW produces for the Imperials for a while so there's a couple of more choices before they branch out and add a new faction like chaos - which could even be done in an upgrade kit rather than a full kit.

At last year's Forge World seminar at Warhammer Fest, Tony did day that they were looking at adding new classes of titan. If you think back to the classic Warlord configurations- Nemesis, Eclipse, Deathbringer, Nightgaunt - some of those have already ben mentioned in a few of the Horus Heresy books as being different classes to the Warlord.

So, just going by names from 1988, you could have:
Nemesis, Eclipse, Deathbringer, Nightgaunt, Hun and Goth battle titans, and Wolf and Mastiff scout titans.

 zedmeister wrote:
Battlebunnies have posted a summary of the gameplay here:

http://battlebunnies.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/adeptus-titanicus-demo-pod-tacticae.html

Few highlights:

the new AT boards that are being released by Forge World are deliberately designed so that they can be set up with roads that can not be traversed by larger engines to give some tactical advantages to smaller engines.

Here we got an overview of army composition, the roles of the different titans that will be available soon after launch and how they can be armed.

In terms of maniple composition (which is the key thing here), this is what the command terminal packs provide. The command terminal packs provide you with a maniple composition amongst other things - for example, the Axiom Command Terminal pack provides you with everything (apart from models and weapons cards) to field a pre-selected maniple consisting of 1 warlord, 1-2 reavers and 1-2 warhounds. If you build a maniple that is compatible with the terminal pack you can get extra rules such as improved command rolls - so think of them like formations but not as game breaking as some of the ones in 7th.

The titan roles should be pretty self explanatory really - Warlord is a slow but resilient heavy hitter, Reaver is a middle of the road kind of titan, Warhound is a fast glass cannon, Knights are flank protectors and irritants - don't ignore them though as they can take down an injured titan caught off guard!

Weapons are important here as you need to have a balance between shield breakers and engine killers, too much of a focus either way may result in you not being able to quickly take down enemy titans.

Nice. And as the Sad Old Git Society can attest....

De Bellis Titanicus wrote:The arming of Titans must, by necessity, always be a compromise. To gain long range you must sacrifice firepower, and vice versa. You must approach this decision at two levels.
Firstly the level of the individual Titan. Consider carefully what it must achieve and how its armament will affect its ability to fulfil its objective.

Secondly, the level of the force itself: this may be the Legion as a whole or a battle group on a particular mission. Never forget that a Titan force is a team - a single body, and may have specialised members designed for specific tasks.

Meditate on the subject if you feel the need, or consult the Imperial Tarot. The decision is important, so do not take it lightly.

Things should get a bit easier once we get Warhounds under our belts. With any luck, they'll have the firepower to deal with Knights (and have to, as I imagine Knights post a HTH threat to Warhounds), and to strip shields.

Hunting pair zipping about for shield stripping duty means your main Battle Titans can focus on packing the greater punch.

Oh Holy Emperor I want this game and I want it now!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Things should get a bit easier once we get Warhounds under our belts. With any luck, they'll have the firepower to deal with Knights (and have to, as I imagine Knights post a HTH threat to Warhounds), and to strip shields.

Hunting pair zipping about for shield stripping duty means your main Battle Titans can focus on packing the greater punch.

Oh Holy Emperor I want this game and I want it now!

Not just shield stripping. Warhounds will have the maneuverability to get behind lumbering Warlords. A well aimed turbolaser blast into the rear reactor housing of an unshielded Warlord will see that Titan in serious trouble.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Did anyone in attendance ask if they were looking beyond the “classic three” plus knights for the game?

This was posted on my local club page by someone who attended: "Space marine test models have been done, however no units other than titans and knights are planned right now".

Based on the current rate of new Necromunda releases they can easily spend the next couple of years shrinking the current 28mm FW range of Knights & alternate Titan weapons. Not to mention things like legion-specific armour plates conversion kits, banners, scenery, etc. Personally I think we'll see Cerastus & Porphyrion Knights in resin as the only 'new' units within 12 months. If we ever do see 'full' Epic return with tanks & infantry, it will be years away.

Honestly I'd expect them to add other races titans only long before going for tanks. Part of me would actually welcome no tanks or infantry appearing; keeping the game purely titans with bunkers/towers/static defences. Beyond the Imperials most other factions don't have many titan class models (orks and chaos have a respectful number even if most of chaos is just Imperial with more spikes) - so it would be a great chance to flesh out that area of combat.Seeing three of four or more titan class tyranids!

If I recall, in the Beast Must Die, there is a briefly shown and mentioned Titan that takes part in the Ullanor Assault. It was three-legged and was referred to as "Punisher Class." I think it had a massive chaingun or something like that.

This would be kinda cool to see possibly.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If I recall, in the Beast Must Die, there is a briefly shown and mentioned Titan that takes part in the Ullanor Assault. It was three-legged and was referred to as "Punisher Class." I think it had a massive chaingun or something like that.

This would be kinda cool to see possibly.

Why am I reminded of the Dune Harkonen Devastator

 Overread wrote:
Honestly I'd expect them to add other races titans only long before going for tanks. Part of me would actually welcome no tanks or infantry appearing; keeping the game purely titans with bunkers/towers/static defences. Beyond the Imperials most other factions don't have many titan class models (orks and chaos have a respectful number even if most of chaos is just Imperial with more spikes) - so it would be a great chance to flesh out that area of combat.Seeing three of four or more titan class tyranids!

Eldar have lots and would look great in contrast
Orks are the same - Godbreaker in mini form might be a bit epic - especially if they made Stormherald and rules for the Crone
Tyrandis are the same

 zedmeister wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Things should get a bit easier once we get Warhounds under our belts. With any luck, they'll have the firepower to deal with Knights (and have to, as I imagine Knights post a HTH threat to Warhounds), and to strip shields.

Hunting pair zipping about for shield stripping duty means your main Battle Titans can focus on packing the greater punch.

Oh Holy Emperor I want this game and I want it now!

Not just shield stripping. Warhounds will have the maneuverability to get behind lumbering Warlords. A well aimed turbolaser blast into the rear reactor housing of an unshielded Warlord will see that Titan in serious trouble.

And therein lies the compromise for Warhounds Vulcan Megabolters are fantastic for rapidly shredding shields, and a pair will do that in double quick time. But of course, that leaves the Titan more or less incapable of doing anything else. So if your opponent has only brought a single Battle Titan, instead favouring smaller Titans, much of that firepower is wasted.

Seems like the game will have the whole Initiative Sinking tactic as well

Forgive me for asking if it has been recently raised but will AT feature campaign-style amendments to the Titans?

I recall there being some mention of individual Titans gaining personality traits and so on over the course of several games.

So I dug out my 1996 Catalogue! It's so strange! It's got Necromunda, Warhammer 40K and Epic and the other HALF of the book is Warhammer Classic. Gods how the games have changed since those days (although I'd say visually Warhammer to Sigma is the greatest visual change in style). This is also when the book has "Do not put them in your mouth or lick them" on the cover and the starting age was 14 (lead based metals).


Anyway I had a look at what would likely count as Titans and Knights in Imperial and other factions and from that era there's:

Imperials:
Baneblade - Shadow Sword - Storm Hammer - Storm Blade
Adeptus Mechanicus Ordinatus - Golgotha/Armageddon/Mars

Knights - Baron/Castellon/Paladin/Lancer/Errant/Crusader and then commander editions of most of those (basically its a knight model with a banner pole).

Warlord
Reaver


Chaos:
Khorne Lord of Battle
Plague Tower of Nurgle
Tzeentch Fire Lord
Banelord (basically chaos warlord)
Slannesh Hell Knight - Questor/Subjugator/Hell Scourge/Hell Strider
Chaos Lords (Change, Keeper of Secrets, Unclean One, Bloodthirster)
Characters - Magnus, Fulgrim, Mortarion, Angron

Tyranids:
Trygon - Malefactor - Dactylis - Haruspex - Exocrine
(these are kind of between tanks and knights in size. Tricky to tell if they'd count as knights or if GW would introduce some in-between big bugs for the Titan game)

Harridan
Hierodule Biotitan
Hierophant Biotitan
Dominatrix

Eldar:
Phantom titan
Warlock Titan
Avatar of Khane
Revenant Scout Titan

Orks
Skullhammer/Giblet Grinder (supertanks)

Stopmas are actually on a sprue with a selection of other walkers and are, I think, much smaller than they appear today where they'd class as Knight sized. Interestingly this is in the day when Chaos had the old dreadnoughts that looked like the walkers out of Robocop original)

Mekboy Gargant
Slasher Gargant
Great Gargant


This is after the Titan Legions game and into the Epic era (but before Epic 40K which had way more tanks/troops and less knights/titans).
So there's no quad legged eldar in here and the Imperator and Mega Gargant are also missing. There might be others as I don't have catalogue from before in the Titan Legion ear. Neat to see that in Chaos is Slannesh who actually rules the roost in regard to Knights!

In those days, Stompas were roughly Land Raider equivalent in terms of role and power.

This looks fantastic! the Titans look amazing and the scale is spot on! now all I need is someone to buy it and get me to paint it for them! :-) god, if only I knew someone!

Yep the orks clearly scaled them up. A good proper orky thing to take something good and make it BIGGA!

 Overread wrote:
Honestly I'd expect them to add other races titans only long before going for tanks. Part of me would actually welcome no tanks or infantry appearing; keeping the game purely titans with bunkers/towers/static defences. Beyond the Imperials most other factions don't have many titan class models (orks and chaos have a respectful number even if most of chaos is just Imperial with more spikes) - so it would be a great chance to flesh out that area of combat.Seeing three of four or more titan class tyranids!

If you were making Ork units for this game, would you go as small as a Gorka/Morkanaught and Meka-dread? Or stick with the Stompa as the bottom end? Because traditional Ork gear kinda has a Knight-sized gap.

Eldar on the other hand are already established to have Knight-scale combatants and would probably consider anything bigger than the Phantom to be wasteful… but maybe there’s room to expand on their light Titan range, like scaling up the old Bright Stallion Knight to Revenant size to joust with Warhounds?

T’au are the tricky ones, really; their entire style of warfare should make them incompatible with this game since all their big stuff is flyers and dropships. The Ta’unar as a mobile artillery piece is already kinda stretching it as far as resources vs. return according to Forge World themselves.

The Necrons on the other hand have an unlimited quantity of “mysterious ancient magitech” to pull giant stompy robots out of, not to mention the pylons.

Who else would want to end up in a Titan brawl out of the remaining factions?

Tau would probably do well since FW love Tau (seriously they've gota huge roster of choices considering how new they are compared to other factions). They've already got at least one giant mecha and if anything Tau would fit in really really well with several huge mecha units!


Honestly the only faction that might get left behind is Dark Eldar, though if this titan game takes off I'm sure they'd re-purpose a few Eldar Titans and build some of their own adaptations!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In those days, Stompas were roughly Land Raider equivalent in terms of role and power.

Yeah GW in their stupidity forgot entirely their naming/size policies and did totally unneeded change with stompa. Why on earth name something stompa that's not stompa when they had already existing name for what the 40k stompa is?

Probably because players kept asking for a Stompa but GW didn't want to make it an ungainly dreadnought design. Seriously compare a stompa in shape and body to a dreadnought and the Stompa just seems silly if scaled the same. It worked in Epic because everything was so much smaller; but in 40K I think the Stompa fits well in the size its got now.



Just like how right above there's a user asking for the Eldar centaur units to be scaled up to knight size

You have the Wraithknight, Revnant and Phantom pretty much ready to go for Eldar. They would be the obvious first Xenos release (and my they'd be beautiful!)