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chriachrias wrote:Not to interrupt the good ole rules lawyering that is 40k, but I haven't played since 5th and recently just got ~1k points on clowns and a skathach Wraithknight. Was planning to add a farseers and 2 squads of scatbikes for 1850. Do you see that type of list working better in Ynarri taking a few of the new characters, or sticking with craftworld + allies?

I don't think you can use the Skathach in the Ynarri detachment, so if that was really your hope I believe you'll have to stick with CAD.

PyrhusOfEpirus wrote:anybody have any ideas on what i can combine with a few wraithcannon wraithguard and archon+webway portal to make it more survivable in the face of strong interceptor fire. Regular opponent is tau, and things like the shadowseer casting its conceal type power would not help me on the initial drop.

I'd recommend putting attached IC's at the front of the unit so that when they die from overwatch you'll get to shoot anyways before another unit can intercept.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

I'd recommend putting attached IC's at the front of the unit so that when they die from overwatch you'll get to shoot anyways before another unit can intercept.

I thought someone just mentioned that IC's are considered part of the group once they join? They are not individual groups by themselves?

 lessthanjeff wrote:

chriachrias wrote:Not to interrupt the good ole rules lawyering that is 40k, but I haven't played since 5th and recently just got ~1k points on clowns and a skathach Wraithknight. Was planning to add a farseers and 2 squads of scatbikes for 1850. Do you see that type of list working better in Ynarri taking a few of the new characters, or sticking with craftworld + allies?

I don't think you can use the Skathach in the Ynarri detachment, so if that was really your hope I believe you'll have to stick with CAD.

But you could take one as part of a Wraith Host formation since Doom of Mymeara gives you specific permission to do so.

 nintura wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:

I'd recommend putting attached IC's at the front of the unit so that when they die from overwatch you'll get to shoot anyways before another unit can intercept.

I thought someone just mentioned that IC's are considered part of the group once they join? They are not individual groups by themselves?

One person did say that, but I disagree with that assessment. IC's still count as units in their own right for kill points even when they are attached to another unit and that's what this is, testing if a unit was destroyed. The bigger debate is about passengers benefiting from their transport getting destroyed and I'm of the mindset that the passengers would not get to use SfD.

I dont have the rulebook on hand to debate that argument, but I do know if you get a penetrating hit they have to disembark right? So when does the disembarking happen? As soon as there's a pen? Or after you roll on the damage results table?

There is no disembark just for suffering a penetrating hit. Passengers do have to take a leadership test to see if they snapshoot if that's what you're thinking of.

PyrhusOfEpirus wrote:
anybody have any ideas on what i can combine with a few wraithcannon wraithguard and archon+webway portal to make it more survivable in the face of strong interceptor fire. Regular opponent is tau, and things like the shadowseer casting its conceal type power would not help me on the initial drop.

You could add the unique Death Jester from Death Masque and gain shrouding plus any additional cover you would receive normally.

I'm probably thinking of an older edition then.

Interesting thought:
Take a list with a shooting WK, 1 lone Warlock on bike & Yncarne.

Keep the Warlock within 7" of the WK and cast a Sanctic power, trying to Perils. If he dies, the WK gets to shoot for free in your Psychc phase, then again normally in your shooting.
If the Warlock lives, you can turbo-boost him into the enemy's face, daring them to kill him so Yncarne can pop in using his Inevitable Death rule.

Even though I am currently only planning to use a USF and not actually the Ynnari, the though of a WK shooting twice is just ridiculously good.

-

Feels like we are playing Chaos again... wanting to sacrifice that hero to turn it into a greater daemon....

 Galef wrote:
Interesting thought:
Take a list with a shooting WK, 1 lone Warlock on bike & Yncarne.

Keep the Warlock within 7" of the WK and cast a Sanctic power, trying to Perils. If he dies, the WK gets to shoot for free in your Psychc phase, then again normally in your shooting.
If the Warlock lives, you can turbo-boost him into the enemy's face, daring them to kill him so Yncarne can pop in using his Inevitable Death rule.

Even though I am currently only planning to use a USF and not actually the Ynnari, the though of a WK shooting twice is just ridiculously good.

-

Didn't someone point out that SfD lets you shoot a second time if you've already shot but doing so the other way around wouldn't let you shoot a second time in the shooting phase? Not sure if that's intended or not.

 Imateria wrote:
What were the first 6 paths?

Not sure, maybe they are referring to the Craftworld Path system.

Path of the Seer
Path of the Warrior
Path of Command
Path of the Outcast
Path of the Smith (can't remember the proper name for this one, basically the builds/engineers/artisans)
Path of XXXX?

I can't remember how many Craftworld paths have been mentioned in the fluff so I could well be barking up the wrong tree here.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
What were the first 6 paths?

Not sure, maybe they are referring to the Craftworld Path system.

Path of the Seer
Path of the Warrior
Path of Command
Path of the Outcast
Path of the Smith (can't remember the proper name for this one, basically the builds/engineers/artisans)
Path of XXXX?

I can't remember how many Craftworld paths have been mentioned in the fluff so I could well be barking up the wrong tree here.

Pretty sure you're over thinking it here. I think Paths just means choices. Like do we follow path one? Or path two? Which one leads to the better outcome?

 lessthanjeff wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Interesting thought:
Take a list with a shooting WK, 1 lone Warlock on bike & Yncarne.

Keep the Warlock within 7" of the WK and cast a Sanctic power, trying to Perils. If he dies, the WK gets to shoot for free in your Psychc phase, then again normally in your shooting.
If the Warlock lives, you can turbo-boost him into the enemy's face, daring them to kill him so Yncarne can pop in using his Inevitable Death rule.

Even though I am currently only planning to use a USF and not actually the Ynnari, the though of a WK shooting twice is just ridiculously good.

-

Didn't someone point out that SfD lets you shoot a second time if you've already shot but doing so the other way around wouldn't let you shoot a second time in the shooting phase? Not sure if that's intended or not.

I'm not sure where they're getting that from. The rule just says "The unit may shoot as if it were your shooting phase."

Is there some precedence for units not being allowed to shoot if they've already shot that turn? I know Interceptor, but I thought that the Interceptor rule specifically states "if you use Interceptor you can't shoot on your next shooting phase with this gun". That's what allows you to do the trick where you man an ADL's Quad-gun with a Vindicare Assassin, where he can use the Quad Gun with Interceptor, get his BS9000 and Ignores Cover, and then he still gets to shoot his Exitus Rifle the next turn because Interceptor just turns off the Quad Gun.

I'm not sure yet as I haven't gone back and looked at the rule to see whether there is a restriction on it or not. There is the restriction that a model can only fire one weapon but I don't know if that specifies per turn or per phase.

I believe I was going off the Shooting Sequence (been a few days). In order to shoot in the shooting phase, the first step is to nominate a unit to shoot that ''has yet to do so this turn''. If you had already shot using SfD in the Psychic phase, you wouldn't be eligible to shoot in the shooting phase off that wording.

Goobi2 wrote:
I believe I was going off the Shooting Sequence (been a few days). In order to shoot in the shooting phase, the first step is to nominate a unit to shoot that ''has yet to do so this turn''. If you had already shot using SfD in the Psychic phase, you wouldn't be eligible to shoot in the shooting phase off that wording.

Ahhhh, you'd be right. But then, wouldn't SFD shooting only ever work in the enemy turn? You'd not be able to use it in your own turn.

-Shoot in shooting phase, kill a unit

-Ok now I get to shoot as if it's my shooting phase

-wait, the rules say "a unit that hasn't done so" so I can't shoot.

the_scotsman wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
I believe I was going off the Shooting Sequence (been a few days). In order to shoot in the shooting phase, the first step is to nominate a unit to shoot that ''has yet to do so this turn''. If you had already shot using SfD in the Psychic phase, you wouldn't be eligible to shoot in the shooting phase off that wording.

Ahhhh, you'd be right. But then, wouldn't SFD shooting only ever work in the enemy turn? You'd not be able to use it in your own turn.

-Shoot in shooting phase, kill a unit

-Ok now I get to shoot as if it's my shooting phase

-wait, the rules say "a unit that hasn't done so" so I can't shoot.

This is obviously a case where SfD is meant to overwrite the rules because of how this works, but people want to take the rules literally.

Well, SfD would let you fire a second time if it was used second, because it specifically says it can even it already has done so.

If SfD is second, you can fire twice. If it is first, just the once.

I think you guys are right. SfD allows a unit to shoot again if they have already done so, but the Shooting phase does not.
So no using sacrificial Warlocks to get extra shooting in your turn.

Still worth it to put Scatterbikes near your WKs. If the opponent kills them in their turn, the WK gets to retaliate.

Goobi2 wrote:
Well, SfD would let you fire a second time if it was used second, because it specifically says it can even it already has done so.

If SfD is second, you can fire twice. If it is first, just the once.

Oh, youre right. Derpaderp, I was looking at the bullet points in the SFD rule and forgot the last line of the main rule where it says they can do it even though they already had in the turn.

Yep, carry on, that is indeed how it works. "Sadly" suicide warlocks can't explode themselves to double-tap wraithcannons. I'll shed a single sad clown tear for everyone who wanted to do that.

Codex rules have always trumped the rule book. I'd say you can shoot twice in your turn.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Codex rules have always trumped the rule book. I'd say you can shoot twice in your turn.

But in this case the Codex rule doesn't say anything about a unit that Soulbursts prior to their shooting phase. It only allows a unit to perform X action even if it has done so already this turn.
The Shooting phase still requires models to have not already shot "this turn". It is had noted "this phase" there would be no issue, but it says turn.

-

 Tamwulf wrote:
Codex rules have always trumped the rule book. I'd say you can shoot twice in your turn.

It says you can shoot *even if you already have*

that's different from saying you can shoot twice. There's nothing that says if you take a shooting action with Soulburst, you can shoot a second time in your shooting phase.

Yeah, I'm planning on getting small groups of units like dark reapers, scat bikes, vaul's wrath d-cannons, and a wraithknight in clumps to proc off of each other when something dies and offensively I'll probably run things like warp spiders to proc off enemy deaths.

What do you think of 3" single model khymerae squads as an Yncarne delivery system? Think they'd even bother shooting them? id use them like warhammer chaff units to clunk up his movement if not.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
What do you think of 3" single model khymerae squads as an Yncarne delivery system? Think they'd even bother shooting them? id use them like warhammer chaff units to clunk up his movement if not.

The idea is sound, but I really don't like the small unit. You want them to still be effective, and thus a viable threat for the enemy to want to shoot at.
I would either take 3-elf Reaver units with Caltops to turbo boost near them, or 2-3 Khymerae in each unit. Another reason not to have such small units is that you want the enemy to spend more than 1 unit's worth of shooting. What would be the point if it only took 1 unit to kill the single Khymerae, the Yncarne shows up, and the rest of the enemy's shooting takes him down?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
What do you think of 3" single model khymerae squads as an Yncarne delivery system? Think they'd even bother shooting them? id use them like warhammer chaff units to clunk up his movement if not.

considering that yncarne can show up when your opponents units die I think it is a better plan to just kill one of the opponents unites where you want him to show up. I think he will be best used as a counter assault unit. If your opponent ever kills one of your units in assault you pop him down ready to wipe that unit on your turn. Also if you blow up a transport he can be there waiting to charge the passengers.

I have a hard time justifying the charge rules from SfD right now. Shooting seems to be a much stronger option since it's giving you an additional round of damage output without any damage coming in. The charging version just gets you into combat which doesn't allow for additional damage output and it puts you back into taking damage back.

I also want to make Reavers work for it, but I can't find anything I'm happy with especially since I can't turboboost them up, shoot something next to them, and proc charging a different unit.

Thoughts on whether Yncarne can charge on your player turn the same game turn he is summoned from reserve?

The rule reads "may not charge in a turn in which it uses this ability". The BRB reads, whenever the word 'turn' specifically means player turn unless game turn is mentioned. If this is the case, suicide units running towards the enemy makes them 'unkillable'. As the enemy would have a LoW in their face if they choose to shoot the suicide unit. The LoW would be able to charge on the next player turn (eg - the Aeldari's turn).

Obviously, the enemy could kill the suicide unit and THEN the 5W T6 3++, 5+ FNP model. As a lot of army can deal with that nowadays. Haha