Death Guard Tactica

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**Zid**

Brymm wrote:
What is a pure DG answer to Knights? Or a single big ass knight?
I am running double Daemon Princes with Talons and wings but even though they math out way better than Axe princes, they are still wounding on 5s unless you have Blades on them or are near Mortarion...
Mortarion obviously will chop up a knight but without Warptime I won't be in combat turn 1.
Suggestions?

Need to soup with Chaos Demons if you wanna have a chance; things like Virulent Blessing or Shriveling pox, or having a poxbringer nearby. Pure DG their only answer is Mortarian, which isn't a good one when faced with a Castellan

**Jidmah**

I'd say that anti-tank weapons are wasted even when shooting at a PBC

I wonder, don't you have a Malignant Plaguecaster? Psyker to buff miasma helps a lot, plus you get smite and one deny for enemy psykers.

**Hrudian**

Jidmah wrote:
I'd say that anti-tank weapons are wasted even when shooting at a PBC

I wonder, don't you have a Malignant Plaguecaster? Psyker to buff miasma helps a lot, plus you get smite and one deny for enemy psykers.

Yep, forgot to add him to the list of options. I do have a Malignant Plaguecaster. I was thinking of switching my lord and Plaguedrones for another Daemon Prince. Would that be an improvement?

**blackmage**

I prefer butcher on all. But i do have c-beams etc.

butcher doesn't do a lot, wound on 4+ IK saves at 4+ or 3+ and just 2 damage, maybe on leviathan but sure not on contemptors, average 4 wounds on a 3+ Ik after saves, 2 wounds on 2+ save Ik.

**Brother Payne**

blackmage wrote:
I prefer butcher on all. But i do have c-beams etc.

butcher doesn't do a lot, wound on 4+ IK saves at 4+ or 3+ and just 2 damage, maybe on leviathan but sure not on contemptors, average 4 wounds on a 3+ Ik after saves, 2 wounds on 2+ save Ik.

Yeah idk about butchers making short work of knights... maybe if you get death hex off but even then I can't really see it. If it weren't for their fragility, soulburner decimators would be the way to go. We really struggle vs knights tbh. The corruption DP is good but he can't deal with a knight himself.

**elodingens**

But is this really comparable? A pure DG against Imp Soup with IK, IG and BA?

**blackmage**

it is not... hard you stand a chance with pure DG against list like that.

**gwarsh41**

I just finished my Renegade Porphyrion this week. I want to run it in a list asap to get that sucker on the table. I don't just want to plop it down and then cry as 3 las preds tear it a new hole though. So I was considering running it with a chunk of daemon engines, and possibly a small Alpha legion supreme command with a Hellwright (cause they can't be deathguard), sorcerer and daemon prince to bring along some extra punchy. Or just spend a CP for an aux detachment. I'm honestly not sure if a D3 heal on a 30 wound model is worth the investment.
I figure that unless I spam nurglings to high hell, I'll have a pretty low CP army at 2000pt. drones/PBC and daemon princes feel like the easiest thing to me. Any suggestions?

**Brother Payne**

gwarsh41 wrote:
I just finished my Renegade Porphyrion this week. I want to run it in a list asap to get that sucker on the table. I don't just want to plop it down and then cry as 3 las preds tear it a new hole though. So I was considering running it with a chunk of daemon engines, and possibly a small Alpha legion supreme command with a Hellwright (cause they can't be deathguard), sorcerer and daemon prince to bring along some extra punchy. Or just spend a CP for an aux detachment. I'm honestly not sure if a D3 heal on a 30 wound model is worth the investment.
I figure that unless I spam nurglings to high hell, I'll have a pretty low CP army at 2000pt. drones/PBC and daemon princes feel like the easiest thing to me. Any suggestions?

A full battalion of AL with a big unit or two of Cultists might be worth it for screening and board control. Alternatively you could go with a Nurgle Daemon battalion with a big blob of Plaguebearers. I agree too that m you should add some alternate heavy targets too - PBCs or even Morty could do the job.

**lindsay40k**

gwarsh41 wrote:
I just finished my Renegade Porphyrion this week. I want to run it in a list asap to get that sucker on the table. I don't just want to plop it down and then cry as 3 las preds tear it a new hole though. So I was considering running it with a chunk of daemon engines, and possibly a small Alpha legion supreme command with a Hellwright (cause they can't be deathguard), sorcerer and daemon prince to bring along some extra punchy. Or just spend a CP for an aux detachment. I'm honestly not sure if a D3 heal on a 30 wound model is worth the investment.
I figure that unless I spam nurglings to high hell, I'll have a pretty low CP army at 2000pt. drones/PBC and daemon princes feel like the easiest thing to me. Any suggestions?

You might want to cross-post to the general Chaos tactica thread - you’re talking about a lot of factions here and soup players who don’t main DG might have some insight that’ll miss this particular thread

If you bring a CSM Detachment, you’re opening up Warptime, Death Hex, Prescience, and Tide of Traitors. That can present interesting options with your DG Cultists, MBD, and even the situationally-viable Defiler and Blightlords.

If you can keep it alive, healing could be good. I faced a Spartan and kept knocking it down a Wounds level only to see an Iron Priest perk it back up again

If you do bring a tech-healer, then I’d recommend them having more than one thing to work on. A jammy opponent could potentially kill your knight in one round, leaving your healing ability unused. Thinking of MBH again, here, and also PBC. Maybe Defiler (though it may well Warptime out of reach on turn one)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: that is a really nice Knight, by the way. Have you got a P&M blog on here?

**gwarsh41**

I don't have a P&M blog just yet, but I'm planning on creating one today to fully explain all of the steps to make it. As well as document any additional bits I put on it.

**lare2**

Anyone see any issues with the FAQ? As someone who inevitably goes second I'm pretty happy with the new stratagem. The fly nerfs a bit of a pain for my bloat drones but not exactly cripling. I think we're still cool?

**Niiru**

lare2 wrote:
Anyone see any issues with the FAQ? As someone who inevitably goes second I'm pretty happy with the new stratagem. The fly nerfs a bit of a pain for my bloat drones but not exactly cripling. I think we're still cool?

I don't think the FAQ effects DG very much.

It continues to wreck anyone who plays assault units, or fly units (so anyone who uses raptors or warp talons might as well just not play).

It turned Alpha Legion from decent to poor.

Thousand Sons were actually improved, as their deepstrike relic now works turn 1.

Death Guard are slightly better (relatively) than they were before, just because all the vanilla chaos armies are now relatively weaker.

My next purchase was always going to be some Blightlords regardless, but I'm certainly happier with the decision now, as the other units I was tempted by are now borderline unplayable.

**Nightlord1987**

Feeling glad I kept my Death Guard and transports. Going second and dropping the cover strategem seems super fluffy for Death Guard.

**Ascalam**

My Deathguard are fine with the new FAQ, given I play a shooty Daemon engine list..

My GSC weren’t even given the courtesy of lube...

**COLD CASH**

Just won a doubles 30-40 team tourney with battalion of nurglings and 2 poxbringers and crusader teamed with spearhead of crawlers winged prince with talons and a helverin - 1600 points total. 800 per army 1low 1 fw and no buffs between armies.

The nurglings stole so many vp and stayed alive way way to long it was awesome.

Renegade knight strat is also damn good, being able to use it in 2 phases in your turn can be clutch(it was).

Did a batrep in batrep forum!!!

All hail Papa Nurgle!!!!!!

Take aways from 1st time using knights, helverins are amazing!!! 1 helverin was golden imagining 2-3 is just disgusting.

Thermal canons on a single renegade crusader(points limit) + icarus is still a mad good loadout in this meta. The icarus was popping flyers left and right and the thermal was godlike in 3 games.

Needed 22 wounds on a baneblade to kill it rolled 22 wounds from 1 shot.

Needed 17 wounds on a tesseract vault to kill it rolled 17 from 1 shot.

Really fun weekend now im tired as all hell and need some sleep!!

**ulfhednir86**

Anyone here know if renegades and heretics make good allies or vise versa? And what works well

**Jidmah**

lare2 wrote:
Anyone see any issues with the FAQ? As someone who inevitably goes second I'm pretty happy with the new stratagem. The fly nerfs a bit of a pain for my bloat drones but not exactly cripling. I think we're still cool?

I might try Deathshrouds again. With 1+ Armor and Mortarion with 2+ when going second, he might actually live long enough to do something.

**Ascalam**

ulfhednir86 wrote:
Anyone here know if renegades and heretics make good allies or vise versa? And what works well

As a whole they aren’t great.

Not a bad way to add in some heavy fire support though.

A nenegade commander and some basilisks isn’t too expensive as an add on, for example.

**lare2**

At a local tourney Saturday and ran Typhus. Got spanked every game but still had a good time.

The 2nd game raised an issue regarding Typhus' shooting however. The way I read it, Typhus hits on a 2+ and always hits on a 5+, giving him the capacity to ignore any modifiers and to be pretty lethal in overwatch.

My opponent argued that it meant he would only ever hit on a 5+ and the 2+ BS should be ignored.

Being an amiable chap I agreed to play that game that way but would like to avoid the confusion in the future. What do you guys think?

**Jidmah**

Always hitting on a 5+ means just that. His BS is ignored.

**lare2**

Jidmah wrote:
Always hitting on a 5+ means just that. His BS is ignored.

Wouldn't that be "only hits on a 5+" though? Apologies if I'm just being a lemon here.

**Jidmah**

Always means always. No matter if your opponent has -14 to hit or during overwatch or when he is standing still, he always hits on 5+.

**lare2**

Jidmah wrote:
Always means always. No matter if your opponent has -14 to hit or during overwatch or when he is standing still, he always hits on 5+.

Well that sucks. Thanks for this though.

**Brymm**

Little less than a week from my big local event (The Michigan GT), down to my final list.
The big FAQ seems like it will hurt some considering about 3/4 of my army has "fly," but it won't be that bad. I'm less concerned about losing first turn now because of the cover strat.
Pretty geeked, still worried about knights but I'll probably just play around them.

Spoiler:

**blackmage**

too much plague marines to be competitive in a big event, sorry to say

**Brymm**

Yeah I don't hold any illusions that I'll run the table, but I think a 4-2 finish is possible. The PMs have worked pretty good for me in my practice games. The have a good saturation of special weapons and are pretty resilient against anti infantry weapons. They don't see any heavy weapons being fired their way with all of the other high armor high toughness threats on the table.

That being said, I hear you. 20 Plague Marines are slow and should be about 2 points cheaper per model. But other than paying too much (40 pts by my scale) I don't think they are bad. At what price point would they go from being bad to good?

**buddha**

Brymm wrote:
Yeah I don't hold any illusions that I'll run the table, but I think a 4-2 finish is possible. The PMs have worked pretty good for me in my practice games. The have a good saturation of special weapons and are pretty resilient against anti infantry weapons. They don't see any heavy weapons being fired their way with all of the other high armor high toughness threats on the table.

That being said, I hear you. 20 Plague Marines are slow and should be about 2 points cheaper per model. But other than paying too much (40 pts by my scale) I don't think they are bad. At what price point would they go from being bad to good?

Would you give up at least one squad of PMs for some cultists? With the new FAQ screens are really important and from my own experience you want your PMs flexible and able to move around and therefore not being tied to an objective.

Also, and perhaps even more important, drop the Lord of Contagion. You can take a malignant plaguecaster for about the same or even just a chaos lord is a better take.

**blackmage**

i would run a chaos lord in outrider detachment (cheaper than LoC) and instead 20 pm's i would try to play blightlords terminators

mortarion
2xdp's
3x10 cultists
10 blightlords 2 flails 2 blight launchers

chaos lord with jumpack
3x FBD with plaguespitter

**Brymm**

I like the blight lord idea just don't have any painted up. The LoC is in there as a deep strike CC threat, back field objective getter, with a small foot print and a pain to remove. In test games he's dropped in and gets the charge about half the time (I think its 52% with the command point). I tried the Plague Caster in a similar list and I find the DG powers to be underwhelming to support so many psykers unless I just plan on smiting.
The replacement options are either a Termi Lord or Termi Sorcerer. I want a singular deep strike threat. The LoC is the toughest. The Lord is a little faster and with a combiplasma can actually shoot and kill stuff when he lands, and the Sorcerer just isn't deadly enough and not super tough (and costs the most).
The times the LoC dropped in and failed his charge, enemies moved away, letting him walk towards them and eventually hold an objective. I wish he had a gun. Or moved faster than molasses in January.