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 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm not a fan of plasma since I rarely take the risk to Overcharge, especially on expensive Plague Marines, so I find Blight Launchers are safer, have a steady d3 damage, and get a reroll to wound. The Plasma gun is good for the Champ as it's a unique option (and I just use the Plasma marine from Dark Imperium).

I suppose an optimal DG list would focus on Plague Weaponry and all the buffs available to them.

Arch contaminator, Blades of Putrefaction, VOTLW all synergize well, and should be the main focus of any DG army. I'm currently rebuilding my entire DG force to have as many Plague Weapons as possible because (IMO in 8th edition) any free rerolls your army can get is key.

I dont really like the idea of using a Prince to babysit, so I think Chaos Lord Kranon of the Dark Vengeance set can finally get painted up as a pre heresy Death Guard (who was clearly unworthy of Nurgles proper t5 and FNP stats). His giant sword will make a pretty cool Plaguereaper, and in my own character backstory, would be the true source of his Arch Contaminator aura.

Still kinda wish Lightning claws were cheaper so my Termy Lord would be a (fun fluffy) somewhat viable option, but he is currently outdone by a cheaper balesword and Arch Contaminator combo.

I agree. I use an Arch Contaminator prince to follow my bloat drones, but since hes got an expanded bubble thanks to the helm, he's often touching 2 or 3 plague marine squads for a few turns letting my Blight launchers do work. I think a lot of options in our book synergize really well but aren't taken together often because they aren't seen as competative choices. I think blight launcher spam could have a place in min/max plague marine squads, like a double battalion of 30 PMs all rocking double blight launcher and plasma gun. Near the arch contaminators giant bubble, you're controlling a big part of the board and raining down some death. Sprinkle in your favorite daemon engines and you got a list!

The helm does not effect warlord traits

darthryan wrote:
The helm does not effect warlord traits

This has come up often. It does. The closest to official came from the GW facebook page. GW says it does. It does. The link is somewhere back in this thread and probably linked in YMDC. Plus, I ran it at a 100+ person GT and had the judge rule on it. Search for the link.

The helm doesn't exclude any auras your character has, so any Warlord Traits that are auras would in fact benefit. That relic is possibly the best one in our book, although the Suppurating Plate isn't bad either, especially on a Prince.

It says it effects auras on the models dataslate anyone claiming it works on warlord traits either cant read or is cheating

I'm building a nurgly chaos lord with a jump pack, power fist and plasma pistol. 107p and if you give him the suppurating plate it's budget DP'ish in small games. Does anyone see a place for this dude and off-topic question.. Could you picture the plate look like spiky armour like how thorns worked in diablo 2. I want it to look different from regular power armour..

Xirax wrote:
I'm building a nurgly chaos lord with a jump pack, power fist and plasma pistol. 107p and if you give him the suppurating plate it's budget DP'ish in small games. Does anyone see a place for this dude and off-topic question.. Could you picture the plate look like spiky armour like how thorns worked in diablo 2. I want it to look different from regular power armour..

I really like this idea and think he'd work pretty well in the role you envisage. Thinking he'd be ideal in 1k games.

In regards to the armour, it's described as bloated, with tubes and pipes through which gunk flows. That's pretty much how I picture it as well - brimming with bile which pops over the sod who dares to so much as scratch it.

darthryan wrote:
It says it effects auras on the models dataslate anyone claiming it works on warlord traits either cant read or is cheating

For the lazy persons who won't bother to search: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927707404216556&id=1575682476085719

Your welcome

Razzmatazz13 wrote:

darthryan wrote:
It says it effects auras on the models dataslate anyone claiming it works on warlord traits either cant read or is cheating

For the lazy persons who won't bother to search: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927707404216556&id=1575682476085719

Your welcome

Much appreciated for this. Heard about this many times but never actually seen it. Until it's in a FAQ though, imagine there'll be plenty of arguments.

It has been noted that this source is a social media team member saying they play it in their office this way, and contradictory answers have supposedly been given from the same platform on other occasions. It’s not an FAQ, it’s not RAW, it’s not binding on TO’s.

Edit: also, two clicks away from the rules answer link that’s been floated around:

Official 40k Facebook page wrote:And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.

Facebook posts are not end of. End of.

Now. Moving forwards, the Black Templars _The Crusader’s Helm_ Relic has the same effect, and there’s no FAQ on that, either. The matter remains open, and it’s not restricted to us - I suggest we all email 40kfaq@gwplc.com and ask for a clarification of both (bringing the corpse-god’s lackeys into it should get their attention ) and on this matter either wait or take it to WMDC.

Hi all, played my first game with the deathguard in a while yesterday and thought I'd post my opinions.

Was playing against a heavy melee ork list.

Mortarion was a boss all game, -1 to hit power made is so their shooting just wasn't enough to hurt him.
First time I've used the deathshroud termites, they are deadly! And the bodyguard ability soaked all of ghazzys hits against morty, the ork player was not happy.

With the points drops my plague marine squads felt pretty reasonably costed, happy to use them now.

I ran typhus with two blocks of zombies, he seems a little expensive now given the reduction in other characters but he's still good and the buffing aura on the zombies is really clutch.

Daemon prince with relic armour is still great.

Blight hauler, i ran one of these and they have dropped a bit making them pretty good but I think I may need one or two more. Seem like they may be the best (and one of the only) proper sources of ranged anti tank we have access to. What everyone else using for this (pure Dg)?

Whats the best way to handle Hordes?

I feel that the meta has evolved in such a way that DG being a resilient but relatively low damage output army will get swamped by hordes and crushed by Castellan style lists unless we take a list designed specifically to face one of these.

Is it possible at 1750 - 2k to build a robust TAC list?

I think we are in a good place against hordes we have tons of "flamer" type weapons.

Flamers are terrible against hordes...

You need three PBC and three drones to have a decent chance of wiping out a horde unit per turn unless moral helps you - which it doesn't a lot of times when army rules or characters provide morale protection.

In my experience the best pure DG unit for killing hordes are pox walkers, followed by blightlord terminators (bolters and flails).

Pox walkers can grow back in numbers by using the dead walk again and shooting the horde unit with bolters, PBC's sluggers or the blight crawler blight spurt. Then they charge and gain even more numbers. Most horde units like horrors, don't have enough combat power to take out an entire unit of pox walkers in one go. Against boyz or bloodletters you'll need some buff though, like Typhus aura or the putrescent vitality power.
Terminators are more straight forward. Have 10 of them teleport in, shoot, charge. What ever is left will struggle to kill them and usually fall back to not get wiped out.
If you really need a horde unit gone and you have not more pressing targets, Mortarion will probably blow any unit away with ease by throwing his grenades into them, then casting plague wind and smite, having his aura tick and finally sweep them away with 18 attacks. Probably not an efficient use for him though. Depends on the game though - I had im charge a large unit of brimstones in a recent game because I drew the 1 VP per 7 models killed maelstrom cards. A juicy 4 VP are worth murdering a 180 unit of trash with a daemon primarch.

If you want to branch out of DG, a helvrine or renegade knight is great, as are plague bearers.

I would disagree about the PBCs and Bloat Drones not being good vs hordes. Each one puts out average 7 hits that are wounding on 2s with rerolls. Three drones will kill about 21 dudes (t3 tshirts) or 18 (t3 with 5+) and still be able to charge. Can't get bogged down due to fly and can fry next turn. I use drones to sweep out cheap objectives or attack together to take out a large unit of cultists or guard.

I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

Played against Orks last night, my PBCs killed more boyz than my 3 knights! Flamers are definitely the way to go vs horde armies.

BTW I lost that game lol

My pure death guard really struggled against a tau list today. All those ****ing shield drones were even more resilient than my dudes. Nothing I had could deal with the Taunar. Ended up just shooting drones for 5 turns before being tabled.

List was about as good as I can get with mono death guard.

3 units of plague marines with blight launchers, blight spawn
Arch Contaminator lord, daemon prince, and plague caster
Bloat drone, 6 plague drones
ML Las Brute, AC Las Predator, Land Raider, Rhino

I plan on ditching Brute and Land Raider for PBC and MBH. I just need those Lascannons. Still, just a bad match up in general.

I still find anti-tank to be the hardest thing for me as mono-Death Guard. On Friday I did a 125 PL match against an all-Primaris Ultramarine list w/Primaris Calgar. He had 3 Dreads (2x Venerable, 1x regular) with TL Lascannon and Fist, a Repulsor, I think 3 or 4 Intercessor squads, 2 Inceptor squads, an Ancient, A Primaris Libby, a Primaris Lieutenant and Calgar with the Victrix Guard, using the Indomitus Crusader specialist detachment. We played one of the new Eternal War missions from CA18, "Cut The Head" (which are amazing btw).

I took.. two Daemon Princes (one with Wings, 2 Talons and Suppurating Plate, one on foot with Sword+Plague Spewer who was Warlord w/Arch Contaminator and the helm which we play as affecting warlord traits), Typhus, 5 Blightlord Terminators (took all combi-plasma and axes, 1 Flail 1 Blight Launcher because PL), 3 Blight-Haulers, 1 Crawler with Spitters, 2 Drones w/Spitters, 3x 7-man plague marine squads (2x with 2 launchers and plasma/fist champ, 1 with 2 plasma and plasma/fist champ) and 20 poxwalkers.

He basically crippled my Crawler turn 1 and destroyed it top of 2 but everything else was pretty durable (except the poxwalkers but I forgot to use Cloud of Flies on them). he committed Calgar too far out and I had Typhus oneround him with like 5 attacks (thanks to DTTFE) even with his half damage armor; I ended up doing something like 10 wounds to him. I ended up winning as I killed 2 of his heroes bottom of 3 while I had all 3 (so I was getting 3 VP a turn to his 1) and then top of 4 he failed to kill any of my heroes (Typhus and my winged prince were on 1 wound) and then bottom of 4 I killed his librarian who was his last hero that could get points and he conceded as he had no way to win, so I won 7 VP to 1.

I found that I really need something to deal with a lot of vehicles/walkers, as I didn't have much that could. The Blight Haulers were not enough at all although I only lost 1 during the course of the game.

 Jidmah wrote:
I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

2d6 average is 7 hits though. Why would you think that would kill 10 models in a turn? Or did you mean in the entire game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
I still find anti-tank to be the hardest thing for me as mono-Death Guard. On Friday I did a 125 PL match against an all-Primaris Ultramarine list w/Primaris Calgar. He had 3 Dreads (2x Venerable, 1x regular) with TL Lascannon and Fist, a Repulsor, I think 3 or 4 Intercessor squads, 2 Inceptor squads, an Ancient, A Primaris Libby, a Primaris Lieutenant and Calgar with the Victrix Guard, using the Indomitus Crusader specialist detachment. We played one of the new Eternal War missions from CA18, "Cut The Head" (which are amazing btw).

I took.. two Daemon Princes (one with Wings, 2 Talons and Suppurating Plate, one on foot with Sword+Plague Spewer who was Warlord w/Arch Contaminator and the helm which we play as affecting warlord traits), Typhus, 5 Blightlord Terminators (took all combi-plasma and axes, 1 Flail 1 Blight Launcher because PL), 3 Blight-Haulers, 1 Crawler with Spitters, 2 Drones w/Spitters, 3x 7-man plague marine squads (2x with 2 launchers and plasma/fist champ, 1 with 2 plasma and plasma/fist champ) and 20 poxwalkers.

He basically crippled my Crawler turn 1 and destroyed it top of 2 but everything else was pretty durable (except the poxwalkers but I forgot to use Cloud of Flies on them). he committed Calgar too far out and I had Typhus oneround him with like 5 attacks (thanks to DTTFE) even with his half damage armor; I ended up doing something like 10 wounds to him. I ended up winning as I killed 2 of his heroes bottom of 3 while I had all 3 (so I was getting 3 VP a turn to his 1) and then top of 4 he failed to kill any of my heroes (Typhus and my winged prince were on 1 wound) and then bottom of 4 I killed his librarian who was his last hero that could get points and he conceded as he had no way to win, so I won 7 VP to 1.

I found that I really need something to deal with a lot of vehicles/walkers, as I didn't have much that could. The Blight Haulers were not enough at all although I only lost 1 during the course of the game.

I find blight haulers to be really good for anti tank, and if you can hide a Quad Lascannon Predator in ruins, that can do some damage with a little luck.

One of the best tricks I like to use is to put Morty front and center with a squad of Deathshroud in front of him and a blight hauler in range of the terminators to give them cover for a 1+ save to mitigate AP. Most players can't help but dump shots into Morty, which generally won't be enough to bring him down, and it preserves the rest of your army for return fire.

take a superheavy detachment with IK and helverins plus PBC he cant deal with everything, and if you start first you could wreak some havoc

Anyone tried a 10-man Blightlord unit buffed to the max? I'm considering trying it out

 Virules wrote:
Anyone tried a 10-man Blightlord unit buffed to the max? I'm considering trying it out

yes in the right list they are a powerhouse, 2 flails 2 blightlaunchers thypus for miasma and putrescent vitality or blades+VOTLW, they kill almost anything they touch, you need to play alternative big threats Don Hooson BAO list is a good example.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

2d6 average is 7 hits though. Why would you think that would kill 10 models in a turn? Or did you mean in the entire game?

The point is that it doesn't. You can't take an objective with a single drone because there will be two or three cultists left sitting around still claiming that objective. You can't clear out a unit of guardsmen to shoot/smite the officer behind them.

Two drones are 272 points, having that many points take out a single unit which cost the enemy 40-70 points is rarely a good game decision. Especially since those spitters are great against a lot of other things as well. Therefore I do not think that plague spitters are an effective anti-horde tool.

Are Plagueburst Crawlers still as good after Chapter Approved? Plaguespitter ones stayed the same cost, but with all the decreases that’s almost a point hike. Are entropy cannons still basically a trap, even with the -5 points on each?

with ab 4+ and penalties to move and shoot nothing changed about entropy cannons, still very unreliable, you face something with just a -1 to hit and your PBC are trash.

Atlatl Jones wrote:
Are Plagueburst Crawlers still as good after Chapter Approved? Plaguespitter ones stayed the same cost, but with all the decreases that’s almost a point hike. Are entropy cannons still basically a trap, even with the -5 points on each?

They are still as awesome as before. The cannons are still bad. PBCs are a unit that by most standards are undercosted. How much should a T8 model with 12 wounds costs with an indirect fire gun, two auto hitting super flamers and a decent anti infantry gun, an invul save and 5+ FNP cost? .... If you say it should cost 140 points I would call you crazy. Take a look at the new reduced price of a monolith or even all of the land raider variants. This thing would be a steal at 175.

 Jidmah wrote:
I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

Thats why you combine PBC's with other stuff.

For example, my recent tourney list ran 3 PBC's, 2 Foul Blightspawns, 1 DG Demon prince, 1 1k Sons DP, 1 Khorne demons DP, a ton of plaguebearers, and a couple other characters; it was able to kill 60 Grotz, 90 boyz, 10 MANZ, 25 Lootas, plus other characters, and by the end of the game only 3 boyz and one Kannon was left. Things like Plague Wind are amazing anti-horde tech, as well as Gatling Knights, and more.

I generally choose models that serve multiple purposes, or can be used for multiple purposes in my lists; Contemptors can be anti-tank or horde or elite, for example. PBC's are bulwarks that can kill pretty much anything given enough time and the proper buffs (arch-contaminator). Hordes really is a lot easier for us than Armor in many cases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Virules wrote:
Anyone tried a 10-man Blightlord unit buffed to the max? I'm considering trying it out

Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
I still find anti-tank to be the hardest thing for me as mono-Death Guard. On Friday I did a 125 PL match against an all-Primaris Ultramarine list w/Primaris Calgar. He had 3 Dreads (2x Venerable, 1x regular) with TL Lascannon and Fist, a Repulsor, I think 3 or 4 Intercessor squads, 2 Inceptor squads, an Ancient, A Primaris Libby, a Primaris Lieutenant and Calgar with the Victrix Guard, using the Indomitus Crusader specialist detachment. We played one of the new Eternal War missions from CA18, "Cut The Head" (which are amazing btw).

I took.. two Daemon Princes (one with Wings, 2 Talons and Suppurating Plate, one on foot with Sword+Plague Spewer who was Warlord w/Arch Contaminator and the helm which we play as affecting warlord traits), Typhus, 5 Blightlord Terminators (took all combi-plasma and axes, 1 Flail 1 Blight Launcher because PL), 3 Blight-Haulers, 1 Crawler with Spitters, 2 Drones w/Spitters, 3x 7-man plague marine squads (2x with 2 launchers and plasma/fist champ, 1 with 2 plasma and plasma/fist champ) and 20 poxwalkers.

He basically crippled my Crawler turn 1 and destroyed it top of 2 but everything else was pretty durable (except the poxwalkers but I forgot to use Cloud of Flies on them). he committed Calgar too far out and I had Typhus oneround him with like 5 attacks (thanks to DTTFE) even with his half damage armor; I ended up doing something like 10 wounds to him. I ended up winning as I killed 2 of his heroes bottom of 3 while I had all 3 (so I was getting 3 VP a turn to his 1) and then top of 4 he failed to kill any of my heroes (Typhus and my winged prince were on 1 wound) and then bottom of 4 I killed his librarian who was his last hero that could get points and he conceded as he had no way to win, so I won 7 VP to 1.

I found that I really need something to deal with a lot of vehicles/walkers, as I didn't have much that could. The Blight Haulers were not enough at all although I only lost 1 during the course of the game.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

 Zid wrote:
Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps

With the drops in combi-weapon costs I've been thinking of ways of making them work with combi-plasma, but you're right that cheap combi-bolsters are good for anti-horde.

Have you found them useful for assault? They, like the Deathshroud, are so slow it's not difficult to kite them.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

I'm tempted to give my Deredeo a Hellfire Veil to give Helbrutes a 5++. I don't know if that's better than just taking the Greater Havoc Launcher and letting the Helbrutes die more quickly, but I like the image of it.

Atlatl Jones wrote:

 Zid wrote:
Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps

With the drops in combi-weapon costs I've been thinking of ways of making them work with combi-plasma, but you're right that cheap combi-bolsters are good for anti-horde.

Have you found them useful for assault? They, like the Deathshroud, are so slow it's not difficult to kite them.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

I'm tempted to give my Deredeo a Hellfire Veil to give Helbrutes a 5++. I don't know if that's better than just taking the Greater Havoc Launcher and letting the Helbrutes die more quickly, but I like the image of it.

Terminators ought to be where their lack of speed isn't an issue. Breaking bunkers, clearing objectives, threatening parking lots.

I haven't had too much problems with them, when you have a goal for them. Haven't tried a full 10 in a squad, could be very interesting with all buffs giving such a nice return of investment.